Dalton Shoen

[bwiser]

The Bombers receiving core seems pretty solid right now with Demski,Lawler Woli,Wilson and Wheatfall. Is it time to move on from Dalton Shoen and use that money elsewhere. Ford is going to need a large raise to keep him here and I can see a few other areas of need that will have to be addressed.

[Blue In BC]

Simple answer is no. It's way too early to determine changes to the 2025 roster. Free agency will result in changes to every team. What will ours be is a TBD.

At this point we aren't even sure D. Schoen will be ready for TC. However if he's healthy we try to negotiate a contract IMO.

[RebusRankin]

No

Plenty of other spots where we can save $

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I think it is. Lawler, Demski, Wilson, Wheatfall, Clercius and probably one or two new guys they are high on is plenty for 2025. Not to mention Wolitarsky is still an option.

Schoen is an expensive luxury. Save the sms and spend it elsewhere, most likely the defensive end spot. Haba hasn't been very good this year. Willie is a year older. Garbutt has been good but not elite.

[ichabod_crane]

Does Shoen not have some guaranteed money for next year or was he only signed for this season? I seem to recall he signed a two year deal. If so he could be traded over the off season or early next season if the receiver ranks are fully stocked with the great new young guns.

Lawler FINALLY EARNED his money this past game, but over the season I've been a bit disappointed. Maybe he rolls forward well for the rest of this season hopefully.

Woli now banged up twice this season. He's a good BIG Canadian though with sure hands so don't think he is going anywhere.

 or
Biggie could be done so that frees up some cap room for next season if he retires. Too many knicks the past two years unfortunately. He's nowhere near the same MLB as in his prime defensive MVP years anymore. Strevler and Kyrie Wilson's careers could be over too possibly.

Dolegala is useless as far as I am concerned. Showed NOTHING in Sask except to be a pylon. Another QB will be coming in next season to battle for the backup or short yardage QB spot. QB Wilson seems to have some great physical tools, but not much of a resume so far to know for sure. Maybe he will get some more reps if Bombers can wrap up first place in the next week or two.

[dd]

I think it is. Lawler, Demski, Wilson, Wheatfall, Clercius and probably one or two new guys they are high on is plenty for 2025. Not to mention Wolitarsky is still an option.

Schoen is an expensive luxury. Save the sms and spend it elsewhere, most likely the defensive end spot. Haba hasn't been very good this year. Willie is a year older. Garbutt has been good but not elite.

Agree 100%. We have enough receiver talent, Newbies Wilson, Wheatfall and Clercius have proven more than worthy. I'd say we let him go an spend it on our D front end, another killer D end to replace Jeffcoat would be what I'd be aiming for.

[TecnoGenius]

Haha, the predominant feeling in FA / week 1 was Schoen was the keeper over Kenny!  Major recency bias on display right now!

My take is Kenny is probably better, but Schoen is younger.  They are different types of receiver.  Here's the problem: Wheatfall and Pokey are all Kenny-like Rs -- so now we have too many tall/fast/lanky types, when we really only need 1 or 2.

If we let Schoen walk, who is the beefier Schoen/Bailey clutch guy?  So R mix needs would dictate you keep Schoen and let Kenny (or Pokey or Wheatfall) walk.

[ModAdmin]

Agree that this will all sort itself out after the season ends, in free agency.

[TecnoGenius]

Agree that this will all sort itself out after the season ends, in free agency.

Ya, it's an interesting convo, but I bet even KW doesn't know.  A lot will be dictated by what Schoen/Kenny ask for, and if they want to give us any breaks to stay.  Kenny has hinted he's done with FA wandering after his EDM debacle... There are a lot of Bombers who want to be B4L and get up on the ring of honor.

And a lot will be dictated by whether we make the cup or not again.  Make the cup again and there will be the usual FA poaching of some top stars.

[ModAdmin]

It's always an interesting and complex dynamic when you are a free agent.

On the one hand you may be playing with a Grey Cup contending team with great team mates, a great coaching staff, a locker room built on character and commitment to each other.

And then you get an offer from another team that exceeds anything you can acquire from the team you are with.

What do you do when your date of expiry is limited and your opportunities to maximize your earnings are right in front of you?

We are not in their shoes, but it must be a tough decision to make.

[TecnoGenius]

What do you do when your date of expiry is limited and your opportunities to maximize your earnings are right in front of you?

I get it when guys like Desjar and Yoshi leave for unimaginable, silly money.  But I don't get it when we lose guys we want to keep over 20% of less more money.  They can usually earn more staying here and getting the playoff money.

And how much value should players put on being winners vs losers, like Kenny found out playing for that horrifically bad EDM team.

[Jesse]

I don't think either player can asks for a raise, either from us or from other teams. The receiver market seems to have adjusted a bit as none of Geno, Lawler, or Schoen has earned their pay cheque in any of the seasons they've been paid 250+

My expectation is that both are back with the Bombers in 2025. Pre-season, my preference was to let Lawler walk and re-sign Schoen. And the rise of Wilson and Lawler being out again should have solidified that, but then Schoen goes and get a season ending injury.

So Schoen's health is a looming question that needs to be answered first.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I don't think either player can asks for a raise, either from us or from other teams. The receiver market seems to have adjusted a bit as none of Geno, Lawler, or Schoen has earned their pay cheque in any of the seasons they've been paid 250+

My expectation is that both are back with the Bombers in 2025. Pre-season, my preference was to let Lawler walk and re-sign Schoen. And the rise of Wilson and Lawler being out again should have solidified that, but then Schoen goes and get a season ending injury.

So Schoen's health is a looming question that needs to be answered first.

Interesting take! You could be right and one thing is for sure, we certainly will end up with a team full of talented receivers next year.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Haha, the predominant feeling in FA / week 1 was Schoen was the keeper over Kenny!  Major recency bias on display right now!

My take is Kenny is probably better, but Schoen is younger.  They are different types of receiver.  Here's the problem: Wheatfall and Pokey are all Kenny-like Rs -- so now we have too many tall/fast/lanky types, when we really only need 1 or 2.

If we let Schoen walk, who is the beefier Schoen/Bailey clutch guy?  So R mix needs would dictate you keep Schoen and let Kenny (or Pokey or Wheatfall) walk.

Speaking of body types, hurts to realize BOO was 6'-3" 227 lbs., sad he never got a fair chance to play in Wpg. because he has the bigger body size with speed they could use more of.

I still see Schoen as a workhorse type receiver who earns his keep game after game which in my mind is more valuable than the flashier Lawler type receiver that excels occasionally but not always. 

[Blue In BC]

I don't think either player can asks for a raise, either from us or from other teams. The receiver market seems to have adjusted a bit as none of Geno, Lawler, or Schoen has earned their pay cheque in any of the seasons they've been paid 250+

My expectation is that both are back with the Bombers in 2025. Pre-season, my preference was to let Lawler walk and re-sign Schoen. And the rise of Wilson and Lawler being out again should have solidified that, but then Schoen goes and get a season ending injury.

So Schoen's health is a looming question that needs to be answered first.

That's the catch. Who would have thought we'd lose Lawler for an extended time? Then Schoen with a season ending injury that early in the season. Later we see Woli miss time and with what could be a season ending injury.

I get the SMS question and where we might spend it elsewhere.

However we've been thin at receiver depth this season and suffered at times because of it. The preference would be to have Schoen and / or Woli still on the active AR. Using Whitehead as the returner / back up is ok, but it's a risk as well.

In game injury and rotation help keep everybody in better condition, in theory.

Now if Schoen and Woli were healthy next week ( not likely ) then Woli would replace Weitz as the extra Canadian choice.

An import would have to come off to get Schoen on the AR and I'd think that would be at the cost of Cole on the roster.

Obviously this isn't to suggest Cole on the AR is a bad thing. It's just to suggest we have very little depth on offence on our AR. All the DI's are on defence or ST's.

Of course we may recruit the next Lawler or Schoen in the off season but these are unknown factors. A current receiver could suffer an injury that recovery extends in mid 2025.

Evaluations will be made after the season and coming out of free agency.

I'm not doubting that Wilson and Wheatfall will continue to show well for the rest of the season. Perhaps even a PR receiver impresses the coaches.

At the moment I think we will re-sign Schoen.

[towelie]

Schoen as previously mentioned is a different type of receiver. And with his knack for the end zone I'd be very hesistant to let him go. It might cost us one of Lawler/Wheatfall/Wilson but our recruiting has been solid enough i don't think that should worry anyone.

[Blue In BC]

Schoen as previously mentioned is a different type of receiver. And with his knack for the end zone I'd be very hesistant to let him go. It might cost us one of Lawler/Wheatfall/Wilson but our recruiting has been solid enough i don't think that should worry anyone.

Wilson and Wheatfall will be on an ELC and on the 2nd year of their contracts. So there won't be any issue in retaining them.

Schoen is the only receiver that is on a 1 year deal. What that will mean for a new deal is a TBD. I don't think coming off a season ending injury makes him a high profile target in free agency. OTOH Bombers will know exactly what his re-hab was / is and will have a greater interest in retaining him IMO.

[dd]

Haha, the predominant feeling in FA / week 1 was Schoen was the keeper over Kenny!  Major recency bias on display right now!

My take is Kenny is probably better, but Schoen is younger.  They are different types of receiver.  Here's the problem: Wheatfall and Pokey are all Kenny-like Rs -- so now we have too many tall/fast/lanky types, when we really only need 1 or 2.

If we let Schoen walk, who is the beefier Schoen/Bailey clutch guy?  So R mix needs would dictate you keep Schoen and let Kenny (or Pokey or Wheatfall) walk.

His name is Nik Demski, who's made more than his share of great plays this year.

I was one in the Schoen over Lawler camp, but you can only go on what's happened and move on. Kenny is back, producing like 10 men out there, so go with Kenny, Nik and the newbies and spend the $$ on a stud DE to help Jefferson and our pass rush out.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

His name is Nik Demski, who's made more than his share of great plays this year.

I was one in the Schoen over Lawler camp, but you can only go on what's happened and move on. Kenny is back, producing like 10 men out there, so go with Kenny, Nik and the newbies and spend the $$ on a stud DE to help Jefferson and our pass rush out.

I believe we have just witnessed the best game of Lawler's career, he may play another 4-5 years but I suspect he'll never again reach the excellence he touched last game.

[Blue In BC]

His name is Nik Demski, who's made more than his share of great plays this year.

I was one in the Schoen over Lawler camp, but you can only go on what's happened and move on. Kenny is back, producing like 10 men out there, so go with Kenny, Nik and the newbies and spend the $$ on a stud DE to help Jefferson and our pass rush out.

It's not the worst idea. That said who ends up being available in free agency? It might be a DT or a MLB that interests the Bombers.

I like what we're seeing from Jones and Ayers but Jones might be a potential free agent. I'm guessing we're able to re-sign him if that's the case, but nothing is ever 100% certain in free agency.

DE / DT might be the area we might find an upgrade and choose to re-allocate SMS.

[bunker]

I think the bombers will as usual give priority to retaining their existing players, and then see who's available once they know how much, if any, money they have to work with. Ford will need a raise, as will Dobson. I think Holm's contract is up this year also? I think they will try to resign Schoen, but will play it like they did with Hardrick, there will be a limit beyond which they will not go. I think Lawler is Zach's favourite receiver, and that could play into the decision as well.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

It's not the worst idea. That said who ends up being available in free agency? It might be a DT or a MLB that interests the Bombers.

I like what we're seeing from Jones and Ayers but Jones might be a potential free agent. I'm guessing we're able to re-sign him if that's the case, but nothing is ever 100% certain in free agency.

DE / DT might be the area we might find an upgrade and choose to re-allocate SMS.

Potentially, but Jones won't be highly sought, so it should be an easy re-sign for the Bombers at a reasonable price and with Bighill on the tailend of his career, Jones should be happy to stay.

[Blue In BC]

Potentially, but Jones won't be highly sought, so it should be an easy re-sign for the Bombers at a reasonable price and with Bighill on the tailend of his career, Jones should be happy to stay.

That's true but money is not always the only consideration for any player. My thought is that if Bighill returns he'd be a DI and rotation player getting significant but less reps. I don't think he'll be the starter if Jones re-signs. I like Jones and he's been playing well. I'd probably prefer Sankey or Santos-Knox but Jones may continue to improve.

Essentially just saying it might be an area we look at in free agency if necessary.

[Blueforlife]

I believe we have just witnessed the best game of Lawler's career, he may play another 4-5 years but I suspect he'll never again reach the excellence he touched last game.

Overstated on the negative imo. Lawler has always been awesome and that's all that will continue.  His play has no ceiling at the moment.  Most games makes circus catches.

We will sign Shoen, generational talent in the making.  Worth every penny.

We will sign Jones, pass on Sankey or Santos-Knox.  Would be too expensive (but yes elite players).  Gotta sign Holm.

Our team culture keep developing great new options.  Over pay for the stars and fill in with next man up.  Has worked like a dream for a long time.

[Blue In BC]

Overstated on the negative imo. Lawler has always been awesome and that's all that will continue.  His play has no ceiling at the moment.  Most games makes circus catches.

We will sign Shoen, generational talent in the making.  Worth every penny.

We will sign Jones, pass on Sankey or Santos-Knox.  Would be too expensive (but yes elite players).  Gotta sign Holm.

Our team culture keep developing great new options.  Over pay for the stars and fill in with next man up.  Has worked like a dream for a long time.

You do realize we over paid Lawler to get him back in 2023. He is a generational receiver. So over paid is only a point of view.  I don't know that either Santos-Knox or Sankey would cost any more than Bighill. I'm just saying they should be consider if they reach free agency after we assess what develops going into 2025.

Bighill might not accept a lesser role and / or reduced contract, he may choose to retire.

Free agency is a fluid situation. Who is available and an up grade is a moment by moment analysis with a big influence from SMS spend etc.

Overall LB's are not usually the best paid players on defence. However that's for Walters to determine whether we want to acquire a player or not.

Given another example: would we be interested in seeing Grant return in 2025?

[DM83]

On going dilema

I love the Schoen of two years ago. I do believe he has an unorthodox running style, which opens him up to injury. 

Last game, the Bombers killed a "thrown in the towel " Elks team. But the receivers showed what they can do, with some experience.

Bighill could retire, and then he loves the game.  The current linebackers filled in nicely. However the d line is below average.  I love Thomas and Willie.  But both star at something's and are just average at others. This is nit unlike many other teams this year.  Grant back in blue would be a great need, if we are going to " go for a home field Grey cup win.

Money shouldn't be an issue if Schoen and Bighill retire.

Is our secondary getting burned (Holm) because there is no pass rush and receivers are eating Holm up.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

That's true but money is not always the only consideration for any player. My thought is that if Bighill returns he'd be a DI and rotation player getting significant but less reps. I don't think he'll be the starter if Jones re-signs. I like Jones and he's been playing well. I'd probably prefer Sankey or Santos-Knox but Jones may continue to improve.

Essentially just saying it might be an area we look at in free agency if necessary.

I don't think we can be using a DI spot on a 36 year old rotational MLB. He either wins the job outright or we go in another direction I would say.

[Blue In BC]

I don't think we can be using a DI spot on a 36 year old rotational MLB. He either wins the job outright or we go in another direction I would say.

That's the practical answer and it might come to that. However that was what the Designated American rule was supposed to do by extending the career of older veterans.

I never quite understood how that was going to fit inside the ratio or the SMS. It almost sounded as though those players would be exempt from the ratio similar to the global player issue ( as an addition ). A new classification, one on either side of the ball.

Regardless. Injuries, age and SMS all come into play. The play of the up and coming players as well. At this point we aren't entirely certain of his injury or whether he'll be ready for TC 2025.

OTOH, he could be back next week. Or if we win the Grey Cup he may retire. Lots of possibilities.

Anyway. Back to Schoen. I'm in the re-sign him group. He has a unique skill set.

[bunker]

That's the practical answer and it might come to that. However that was what the Designated American rule was supposed to do by extending the career of older veterans.

I never quite understood how that was going to fit inside the ratio or the SMS. It almost sounded as though those players would be exempt from the ratio similar to the global player issue ( as an addition ). A new classification, one on either side of the ball.

Regardless. Injuries, age and SMS all come into play. The play of the up and coming players as well. At this point we aren't entirely certain of his injury or whether he'll be ready for TC 2025.

OTOH, he could be back next week. Or if we win the Grey Cup he may retire. Lots of possibilities.

Anyway. Back to Schoen. I'm in the re-sign him group. He has a unique skill set.

I love Schoen and what he brings, but to play devil's advocate, I think it depends on his price. He suffered a serious injury (?ACL) . I'll assume he comes back 100% but thats not a given. If he is asking for Lawler/Lewis money (285-300,000), I would rather just role the dice on Wilson, Wheatfall and Lawler as our 3 import receivers. That would save us over 200,000, since the 2 W's are on rookie contracts. We are only going to play 3 import receivers, and I'm not convinced the fall off from Schoen to the 2 W's is large enough to warrant spending this much money. Lawler, Wheatfall, Wilson, Demski, Wolitarksi, and Sclercius is a pretty good group.

On the other hand, if he ends up missing part of the 2025 season this will lower his cost to us I guess. Plus he may sign for a more reasonable number, especially coming off injury. And they may decide to go all in for the home Grey Cup, salary cap be damned.

[TecnoGenius]

Speaking of body types, hurts to realize BOO was 6'-3" 227 lbs., sad he never got a fair chance to play in Wpg. because he has the bigger body size with speed they could use more of.

BOO was hit & miss when here, and he was just hit & miss for HAM the other night.  He dropped 2 important balls early in the game, but had a critical catch at the end, and drew a critical DPI too.

He has to really up his game if he wants to remain in the league with the crop of promising NAT Rs coming up every year.  Clercius already seems more reliable in his 1st year compared to BOO's first year.

[TecnoGenius]

Wilson and Wheatfall will be on an ELC and on the 2nd year of their contracts. So there won't be any issue in retaining them.

That could also make them very juicy trade-baits if we keep both Kenny & Schoen!

[TecnoGenius]

His name is Nik Demski, who's made more than his share of great plays this year.

Demski is clutch, but he is definitely not the guy you want to take huge punishment in the middle all night long.

[TecnoGenius]

I believe we have just witnessed the best game of Lawler's career, he may play another 4-5 years but I suspect he'll never again reach the excellence he touched last game.

Nah, Kenny has done this stuff before, and he'll do it again.  We just need to hope it's with greater frequency!  And that he repeats it in playoffs/GCs.

[DM83]

He's had four years to get with the program. That three prior years.  He's in a roster because if his size. You have to ask why Wpg gave up on the guy.

[GOLDMEMBER]

I believe we have just witnessed the best game of Lawler's career, he may play another 4-5 years but I suspect he'll never again reach the excellence he touched last game.

why do you think that?

[Jesse]

I love Schoen and what he brings, but to play devil's advocate, I think it depends on his price. He suffered a serious injury (?ACL) . I'll assume he comes back 100% but thats not a given. If he is asking for Lawler/Lewis money (285-300,000), I would rather just role the dice on Wilson, Wheatfall and Lawler as our 3 import receivers. That would save us over 200,000, since the 2 W's are on rookie contracts. We are only going to play 3 import receivers, and I'm not convinced the fall off from Schoen to the 2 W's is large enough to warrant spending this much money. Lawler, Wheatfall, Wilson, Demski, Wolitarksi, and Sclercius is a pretty good group.

On the other hand, if he ends up missing part of the 2025 season this will lower his cost to us I guess. Plus he may sign for a more reasonable number, especially coming off injury. And they may decide to go all in for the home Grey Cup, salary cap be damned.

That said, our offence fell off precipitously this year with all those guys in the line-up. We've never seen Lawler play a full season and Wheatfall may have that injury bug too.

But I guess we won't be able to roster all of those American receivers assuming everyone is healthy, so Walters (again) has his work cut out for him.

[Pete]

Nah, Kenny has done this stuff before, and he'll do it again.  We just need to hope it's with greater frequency!  And that he repeats it in playoffs/GCs.

One of the main factors I saw last game was Zach was throwing it to a spot where he could use his ability
In previous games Zac was throwing almost directly at him in coverage resulting in knockdowns and too many interceptions.

[Pigskin]

KL89 isn't having his best year as a Bomber. Probably due to the fact that he missed a number of games. 

28/46, 371 yards, 13.3 Avg, 35 longest. 130 yards was his best game of the season. Before that 64 yards.

In 4 years with the Bombers (47 games). KL89 has only had 5, 100 plus yard games. Which was very surprising to me.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

BOO was hit & miss when here, and he was just hit & miss for HAM the other night.  He dropped 2 important balls early in the game, but had a critical catch at the end, and drew a critical DPI too.

He has to really up his game if he wants to remain in the league with the crop of promising NAT Rs coming up every year.  Clercius already seems more reliable in his 1st year compared to BOO's first year.

Clercius is a bit fortunate that he's had the opportunity to play Woli's 5th receiver part for two stints already in his first season, if it wasn't for those injuries we may have had the opportunity to see him play. Woli probably has 2-3 years left before he retires, so likely Clercius remains a backup replacement until either him or Demski are gone.

[peg_city]

I was thinking they try to re-sign both.

Bighill's money will go to Ford (Ford may end up in the NFL or sign with a team closer to home though).

I'm wondering if Stanley will retire. He's 38 and will be 39 next year. If he doesn't, I'm thinking he'll get less money next because he missed a few games this year and probably won't get an all-star nod.

Randolph will take Loften's spot. That extra money will go to Dobson, who will get a raise.

I think we can afford to keep both Lawler and Sheon. Wheatfall will be the extra, in case someone gets injured.

Whitehead will be replaced by an NFL cut, rookie or that NFL cut we have on the PR.

[Jesse]

KL89 isn't having his best year as a Bomber. Probably due to the fact that he missed a number of games. 

28/46, 371 yards, 13.3 Avg, 35 longest. 130 yards was his best game of the season. Before that 64 yards.

In 4 years with the Bombers (47 games). KL89 has only had 5, 100 plus yard games. Which was very surprising to me.

Kenny's always been a "what if he puts it all together?" player

He still hasn't.

But let's see how we end the season.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

why do you think that?

The stars aligned and the Bombers scored more than 50 points, how often does that happen?  Don't know how poor the Elks played to achieve that score but their secondary play was pretty loose.  I'm sure Lawler will make big catches in almost every game he plays but I don't think he'll ever put together a better game than he did this weekend, that was his masterpiece.

[GOLDMEMBER]

The stars aligned and the Bombers scored more than 50 points, how often does that happen?  Don't know how poor the Elks played to achieve that score but their secondary play was pretty loose.  I'm sure Lawler will make big catches in almost every game he plays but I don't think he'll ever put together a better game than he did this weekend, that was his masterpiece.

Did you even watch the game? Yes there were some open receptions but Lawler in particular had some amazingly high traffic catches. I don't see why he would not have a similar game to this in the future. You've eaten plenty of turkey before I'm sure you will again.

[dd]

I was thinking they try to re-sign both.

Bighill's money will go to Ford (Ford may end up in the NFL or sign with a team closer to home though).

I'm wondering if Stanley will retire. He's 38 and will be 39 next year. If he doesn't, I'm thinking he'll get less money next because he missed a few games this year and probably won't get an all-star nod.

Randolph will take Loften's spot. That extra money will go to Dobson, who will get a raise.

I think we can afford to keep both Lawler and Sheon. Wheatfall will be the extra, in case someone gets injured.

Whitehead will be replaced by an NFL cut, rookie or that NFL cut we have on the PR.

My question is, given their injury history why would you want to sign both?? Lawler seems to be hitting his stride now, lets see how the season plays out (does he get another injury, do we win the GC), and if he stays healthy, I'd keep him and let Schoen decide whether he wants to play here for XX amount of dollars, but I certainly wouldn't be backing the truck up for him. Our recieving corps is doing quite well without him, and $$ saved could go towards replacing Jeffcoat with a stud DE

[Blueforlife]

You do realize we over paid Lawler to get him back in 2023. He is a generational receiver. So over paid is only a point of view.  I don't know that either Santos-Knox or Sankey would cost any more than Bighill. I'm just saying they should be consider if they reach free agency after we assess what develops going into 2025.

Bighill might not accept a lesser role and / or reduced contract, he may choose to retire.

Free agency is a fluid situation. Who is available and an up grade is a moment by moment analysis with a big influence from SMS spend etc.

Overall LB's are not usually the best paid players on defence. However that's for Walters to determine whether we want to acquire a player or not.

Given another example: would we be interested in seeing Grant return in 2025?

I am happy with our LBs.  Continue to develop and should work out fine.  Kramdi is good, Jones is good.  Just need a 3rd piece that is good (develop and be patient would be my method).  I know Kenny is well paid, stating the obvious there.  He is worth every penny.  I would pass on high paid talent at LB.  Maybe Biggie is back, maybe not, either way he has created a legacy at his position just like Harris did.

That could also make them very juicy trade-baits if we keep both Kenny & Schoen!

Wilson has some value, Wheatfall not yet imo
I would keep both if we can! That's our future, sign em before they are too $

[bunker]

I am happy with our LBs.  Continue to develop and should work out fine.  Kramdi is good, Jones is good.  Just need a 3rd piece that is good (develop and be patient would be my method).  I know Kenny is well paid, stating the obvious there.  He is worth every penny.  I would pass on high paid talent at LB.  Maybe Biggie is back, maybe not, either way he has created a legacy at his position just like Harris did.Wilson has some value, Wheatfall not yet imo
I would keep both if we can! That's our future, sign em before they are too $

My understanding is that both Wilson and Wheatfall are under contract for 2025, since they are on their ELCs, which are a 1+1. (Second year can include an up to 10% raise).

[theaardvark]

All CFL players, regardless contract status, have NFL windows.  So, as much as we'd love to have Wilson, Wheatfall, etc back next year on ELC's, there are no guarantees.  I'm not saying they will get looks down south, but you never know.

[Blue In BC]

All CFL players, regardless contract status, have NFL windows.  So, as much as we'd love to have Wilson, Wheatfall, etc back next year on ELC's, there are no guarantees.  I'm not saying they will get looks down south, but you never know.

Very unlikely. Mack barely got a decent look going to the NFL in his option window.

[bwiser]

It seems like players that take a shot at making the NFL from the CFL are not given a fair chance to make the team. It seems like NFL GMs will take a player the GM drafted over any player from the CFL whether they are better or not.

[Jesse]

It seems like players that take a shot at making the NFL from the CFL are not given a fair chance to make the team. It seems like NFL GMs will take a player the GM drafted over any player from the CFL whether they are better or not.

I tend to think we overvalue the players we are familiar with (ie. the guys from the CFL), while GMs while overvalue the guys they're familiar with (the guys they drafted).

Not to mention that players don't come from the CFL. GMs already saw and scouted these guys while they were in college. They've drafted years of players in the years since they were passed over the first time. The guys they drafted are younger and are going to develop in the NFL, not developed playing a different game.

There are reasons CFL players have a tough time transitioning to the NFL. It's not all bias.

[Cool Spot]

For those who want to keep both Schoen and Lawler, and make up the savings elsewhere, where else will those savings be made up? Certainly not QB nor RB. IIRC, the Bombers have spent 2/3 of their salaries on offense.

I don't think we would want to cheap out on key positions on defense; and probably the place I'd be looking to firm up is the offensive line (it doesn't matter how good your QB or RB or receivers are if the OL is weak).

What do others think? If we retain both Lawler and Schoen, what other positions would Winnipeg save at?

[Pete]

the biggest opportunity would be to sign Lawler and Schoen at reduced salaries.
Bighill might be another opportunity depending on his rehab. Thomas is a possibility as well.
On the flip side we have Holm, Ford, and Dobson to sign.
On the oline Neufeld and Bryant may be getting close but I hope they remain for another year.

[BLUEBOMBER]

Schoen is good but the Bombers have been able to find hungry receivers that are willing to put in the effort and work to succeed. If Wolitarsky does retire and Schoen is willing to sign for the same price then I can see him returning. I believe Lawler is kind of overpriced for what he does as well. I see Wilson as a keeper for sure. Clercius and Wheatfall look great too. It's a luxury the Bombers have on receiving corp now. The thing that worries me the most though is at the QB position.

[TecnoGenius]

Randolph will take Loften's spot. That extra money will go to Dobson, who will get a raise.

But we're not paying Lofton much to begin with, and he's been playing very, very well.  Plus, he seems to be the new Yoshi: he's always hopping around happy and energetic and is the first hoggie down the field to congratulate a TD or big-play player.  He gets really fired up.  It's easy to want to keep a guy like that on your team.

Not sure what it is about the RT position, but maybe it breeds this style of character?  (or is it the other way around??)

Randolph hasn't proven he can do OT well.  He was serviceable, but not what I'd call "good".  Maybe he can dev into one, but he's not that now.  I'm not sure what the plan is, but he makes a great OG if injury or roster issue dictates.  As long as we dress too many NATs, he's always an option there.

[TecnoGenius]

I'm sure Lawler will make big catches in almost every game he plays but I don't think he'll ever put together a better game than he did this weekend, that was his masterpiece.

On rewatch, I would agree it might be his best to date.  At least 3-4 silly sick catches that would have been whiffed by most any other player (including Schoen!! jus' sayin').

Kenny was feeling it that night.  He was reminding me of Cahoon and SJ... and those guys would do it week after week.  Kenny may have finally broken through and gotten into beast mode.

I have no reason to think he can't top it one day.  Hopefully in this year's playoff run...

[TecnoGenius]

All CFL players, regardless contract status, have NFL windows.  So, as much as we'd love to have Wilson, Wheatfall, etc back next year on ELC's, there are no guarantees.  I'm not saying they will get looks down south, but you never know.

Ya, Pokey & Wheatfall are a kind of a dime a dozen down there.  Players who showed faaaar more that them have only gotten short tours in the NFL.

Not saying the pair can't keep making highlight reel plays and getting better and more consistent.  And if/when they do, maybe THEN they go down south.  That is at least 1-2 more seasons away.  In the meantime, let's feast on the ELC!  We'll out-MTL MTL!

[TecnoGenius]

On rewatch, I would agree it might be his best to date.  At least 3-4 silly sick catches that would have been whiffed by most any other player (including Schoen!! jus' sayin').

I finished my 2nd rewatch: change that to 5-6 silly sick catches.  Yes, that was the Kenny Game, that's for sure!

I bet he gets 3 of these on the top-50 catches of the year show at season end.  That may be some kind of record.

[Jesse]

For those who want to keep both Schoen and Lawler, and make up the savings elsewhere, where else will those savings be made up? Certainly not QB nor RB. IIRC, the Bombers have spent 2/3 of their salaries on offense.

I don't think we would want to cheap out on key positions on defense; and probably the place I'd be looking to firm up is the offensive line (it doesn't matter how good your QB or RB or receivers are if the OL is weak).

What do others think? If we retain both Lawler and Schoen, what other positions would Winnipeg save at?

We already have them signed for this year; it's not like we're adding expensive free agents to our roster. And if we do re-sign them, it would have to be at a reduced cost - because they did not earn it the first time around.

Bighill isn't the highest paid LB in the league anymore, but if he's back next year, it'll be very little against the cap as he'll be on the IR for a while (if not the whole year).

But we are going to have to let some players walk. Usually it's a DT and a couple of CBs, which we don't seem to overpay. Our expected DT Fox was injured, so he never earned a pay day. And we have rookies to replace him anyway. Holm may be gone. And Ford would probably be moving on if he was an import, but I hope we make a move to keep him around.

So who knows, maybe one of Schoen or Lawler do walk to make room for Wilson/Wheatfall and to re-sign Ford.

[TecnoGenius]

Isn't Biggie guaranteed $$ in 2025?  Outright cutting him could have repercussions.  I wonder if he gets a decent roster bonus in Jan, too.  I'd look for ways to minimize any possible SMS hit when he's on 6GIR... he can get the same OOP $$ in the end, we just need to make sure it's fully shielded, as a) he'll probably start the season on the IR, and b) he'll probably be back on it at some point too.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Isn't Biggie guaranteed $$ in 2025?  Outright cutting him could have repercussions.  I wonder if he gets a decent roster bonus in Jan, too.  I'd look for ways to minimize any possible SMS hit when he's on 6GIR... he can get the same OOP $$ in the end, we just need to make sure it's fully shielded, as a) he'll probably start the season on the IR, and b) he'll probably be back on it at some point too.

Bighill is currently on the final year of 2-year deal which he signed in late November 2022. He is set to become a free agent.

[towelie]

I think Biggie is going to retire. These injuries will be a big factor, they've already taken a toll on his impact. He already has another career setup in the off-season, plus I'm sure there would be opportunities in the organization if/when he wants them. I really don't see him coming back next year

[Blue In BC]

Lawler and Schoen were already in the SMS budget for 2024. I don't think re-signing Schoen will be that difficult and he'll probably have to take a cut after a season ending injury.

The catch is I don't know exactly what his injury was or whether he'll be ready for TC 2025.

I see the issue of whether we have too much money allocated on offence and it's a valid point.

It might be necessary to adjust that due to our potential free agents like Ford and Holm. OTOH we can only speculate which high SMS players we may lose one way or the other in free agency.

Going to have to see the free agency list before making any serious guesses on what may happen.

[theaardvark]

Its sad that we do not know exactly what each player makes.  Still don't understand the reasoning for that, especially when they've gotten so much more involved in fantasy leagues and gambling, where some leagues use actual salaries.

Knowing exact figures lets fans get more involved as well, it takes discussions here to a next level.

Ambroise, Solly, you listening?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

This season's final results might spur some decisions to retire if they end on a positive note, a GC win could prompt a number of vets. to call it a day.  Stanley is the most logical candidate just due to his age but Biggie, Neufeld, Willie, Jake, Mike Benson and Zach are all pushing or exceeding 35 which is old for a football player.

Next off-seasons biggest challenge will be rewarding Ford and Holm with decent bumps without upsetting the apple cart, most vet DB's make around $100-110k so $140k should be the top end either can demand without surpassing Nichols salary. If Ford wins the Bombers MODP nomination he may not agree with this number and seek his fortune elsewhere, pretty confident Holm will remain if no NFL interest.

[Jesse]

This season's final results might spur some decisions to retire if they end on a positive note, a GC win could prompt a number of vets. to call it a day.  Stanley is the most logical candidate just due to his age but Biggie, Neufeld, Willie, Jake, Mike Benson and Zach are all pushing or exceeding 35 which is old for a football player.

Next off-seasons biggest challenge will be rewarding Ford and Holm with decent bumps without upsetting the apple cart, most vet DB's make around $100-110k so $140k should be the top end either can demand without surpassing Nichols salary. If Ford wins MODP he may not agree with this number and seek his fortune elsewhere, pretty confident Holm will remain if no NFL interest.

I would not be shocked at all if Holm was a salary casualty.

Seems like our MO to let DBs walk.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I would not be shocked at all if Holm was a salary casualty.

Seems like our MO to let DBs walk.

I don't see it, they don't let the smart DB's walk, if needed they may push Alexander out of the way to keep Holm.

[Blue In BC]

I don't see it, they don't let the smart DB's walk, if needed they may push Alexander out of the way to keep Holm.

They let Houston leave. You can never tell when another team offers more money which may be above your limit.

[blue_or_die]

I don't know if we will keep Lawler or Schoen, but I have no doubt that if both are expecting their insane salaries next year then we will be paying only one of them at the most. Whether due to injury or performance, no matter how much you love either or both of those guys you have to admit that neither of them have earned their salary which makes it frustrating from a fan perspective when we have to put up with the learning curve of a whole bunch of other rookies just so these guys can be paid (many times while they're sitting in the tub).

Ultimately Chris Jones gets the last laugh in all of this as it was his fault for making that insane offer to Lawler several years ago that completely turned the import receiver market on its head and made for these asinine moves.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

They let Houston leave. You can never tell when another team offers more money which may be above your limit.

I don't think Houston ever qualified as a smart DB, just my opinion.

[theaardvark]

Houston was good, Sayles was good, but neither left a hole that we didn't fill at a fraction of the cost.

Yes, we do let good DB's take big paydays from other clubs.  But we keep the guys that we really want.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I don't think Houston ever qualified as a smart DB, just my opinion.

I think the main thing is Houston freelanced a lot to try and get picks. He was really good at it and definitely won us back the ball more than you'd have otherwise expected for but a lot of those highlight picks there were two or three plays where he gambled and lost and it resulted in first downs and sometimes points for the offense that they really shouldn't have had.

[dd]

This season's final results might spur some decisions to retire if they end on a positive note, a GC win could prompt a number of vets. to call it a day.  Stanley is the most logical candidate just due to his age but Biggie, Neufeld, Willie, Jake, Mike Benson and Zach are all pushing or exceeding 35 which is old for a football player.

Next off-seasons biggest challenge will be rewarding Ford and Holm with decent bumps without upsetting the apple cart, most vet DB's make around $100-110k so $140k should be the top end either can demand without surpassing Nichols salary. If Ford wins MODP he may not agree with this number and seek his fortune elsewhere, pretty confident Holm will remain if no NFL interest.

I think Holm is our best DB in terms of speed and physicality, but I just can't see him getting a good NFL look, they have so many players in their system its tough to get on their radar, even if he wins a league award, that just doesn't mean anything down there.

[Jesse]

Houston was good, Sayles was good, but neither left a hole that we didn't fill at a fraction of the cost.

Yes, we do let good DB's take big paydays from other clubs.  But we keep the guys that we really want.

It's an interesting point because we've never let Nichols walk (made him the 4th highest paid DB - including SAM LBs).

But there's no way that we'll raise the secondary budget to pay Nichols, Holm, and Ford. It's way too much of an increase to a single position group.

[theaardvark]

It's an interesting point because we've never let Nichols walk (made him the 4th highest paid DB - including SAM LBs).

But there's no way that we'll raise the secondary budget to pay Nichols, Holm, and Ford. It's way too much of an increase to a single position group.

Drop one of Shoen or Lawler and you easily pay Nichols, Holm and Ford...

[Blue In BC]

Houston was good, Sayles was good, but neither left a hole that we didn't fill at a fraction of the cost.

Yes, we do let good DB's take big paydays from other clubs.  But we keep the guys that we really want.

It's not about whether we were able to fill the position vacated. It's a question of whether some team offers insane money to move to another city. That happened with both Sayles and Houston.

Holm is a priority but there is still an SMS limit the coaches will determine.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

It's not about whether we were able to fill the position vacated. It's a question of whether some team offers insane money to move to another city. That happened with both Sayles and Houston.

Holm is a priority but there is still an SMS limit the coaches will determine.

Houston signed a 2-year contract with Calgary for $275,000 in hard money, so it wasn't terribly out of line with what other highly rated DB's are receiving but far beyond what the Bombers had left in the till to offer after signing Brady and Dalton.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I think Holm is our best DB in terms of speed and physicality, but I just can't see him getting a good NFL look, they have so many players in their system its tough to get on their radar, even if he wins a league award, that just doesn't mean anything down there.

Oops, I doubt Ford is in line to win MODP but he could receive the Bombers nomination.

[dd]

Oops, I doubt Ford is in line to win MODP but he could receive the Bombers nomination.

Both are very good DB's and Ford has the picks/stats to support a nomimation in a stats driven competition, we are fortune to have both in our backfield, retaining both would be great

[J5V]

Both are very good DB's and Ford has the picks/stats to support a nomimation in a stats driven competition, we are fortune to have both in our backfield, retaining both would be great

Agree 100% but if no Bomber won any awards and we won the cup, I'd be okay with that and I suspect so would they.  :-)

[Pete]

Actually we' ve missed Sayles, hes an elite tackle. Whether we should have tried to sign him above Jeffcoat is a question

[theaardvark]

Actually we' ve missed Sayles, hes an elite tackle. Whether we should have tried to sign him above Jeffcoat is a question

Marcus, not Casey

[blue_gold_84]

I'd say nah. Load up the team for 2025 and win that mug on home field!