MOP's 2024

[ModAdmin]

So, let's do an exercise during a relatively quiet bye week.

We're approximately 3/4 of the way through the season.  What are your predictions for MOP nominees for the Bombers this year.  My thought is that we will have a shot at one winner of the awards this year, that being Sergio Castillo (Most Outstanding Teams Player). Due to the number of player changes through out the season likely no others, but maybe there will be a surprise or two.

So, your Blue Bomber nominees for each category?

    Most Outstanding Player |
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player |
    Most Outstanding Canadian |
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman |
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player |
    Most Outstanding Rookie |
    Coach of the Year |

[bomb squad]

Without looking at any stats or anybody else's picks:

    Most Outstanding Player | Brady Oliveira
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Evan Holm
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Chris Kolankowski
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Sergio Castillo
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Ontaria Wilson
    Coach of the Year | For the CFL? Bob Dyce

[TecnoGenius]

    Most Outstanding Player | Castillo
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Jones
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Brady
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Castillo
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Randolph (does he count?)
    Coach of the Year | Uh...

[Jesse]

    Most Outstanding Player | Brady
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Ford
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Castillo
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Wilson
    Coach of the Year | Younger (Bomber coach of the year)

[Waffler]

    Most Outstanding Player | Sergio Castillo
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Stanley Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Sergio Castillo
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Ontaria Wilson
    Coach of the Year | Bob Dyce

[peg_city]

Most Outstanding Player | Brady
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Ford
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Calvillio
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Wilson
    Coach of the Year | Younger (Bomber coach of the year)

This, but replace calvillio with Castillo

[peg_city]

We should do a MOP poll across the league. I have no idea who is should be. Fajardo by default? I was kind of expecting Collaros to step up, but he hasn't yet. The MOP is there for taking.

[bluengold204]

We should do a MOP poll across the league. I have no idea who is should be. Fajardo by default? I was kind of expecting Collaros to step up, but he hasn't yet. The MOP is there for taking.

Was just thinking the same.  Might be one of the odd years that a QB doesn't win the award.

[gobombersgo]

Most Outstanding Player | Brady
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Ford
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Calvillio
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Wilson
    Coach of the Year | Younger (Bomber coach of the year)

Most Outstanding Player | Castillo
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Jones
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Brady
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Castillo
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Randolph (does he count?)
    Coach of the Year | Uh...

Randolph is eligible but Terrell Bonds isn't. Bonds played 4 games in the NFL.

[barbk]

So, let's do an exercise during a relatively quiet bye week.

We're approximately 3/4 of the way through the season.  What are your predictions for MOP nominees for the Bombers this year.  My thought is that we will have a shot at one winner of the awards this year, that being Sergio Castillo (Most Outstanding Teams Player). Due to the number of player changes through out the season likely no others, but maybe there will be a surprise or two.

So, your Blue Bomber nominees for each category?

    Most Outstanding Player | Sergio
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Canadian |Brady O
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Sergio again
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Pokey Wilson
    Coach of the Year | O'Shea

[blue_gold_84]

Most Outstanding Player | Brady Oliveira
Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Tyrell Ford
Most Outstanding Canadian | Brady Oliveira
Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Stanley Bryant
Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Sergio Castillo
Most Outstanding Rookie | Ontaria Wilson

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Most Outstanding Player: Deatrick Nichols
Most Outstanding Defensive Player: Deatrick Nichols
Most Outstanding Canadian: Tyrell Ford
Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman: Liam Dobson
Most Outstanding Special Teams Player: Sergio Castillo
Most Outstanding Rookie | Ontaria Wilson
Coach of the Year | Bob Dyce (Jordan Younger if it's a Blue Bombers coach)

My rational: Got to go with the strength of the team which is undoubtedly the secondary. I see lots of Brady Oliveria love but he's hard to vote for with zero touchdowns in 13 games and second in rushing yards across the league. Fantastic player, good season, not the best choice this year.

[peg_city]

I was thinking that we will probably have 4 all-stars

Olivera
Holm
Ford
Jefferson

Outside chance of Wilson

[Jesse]

This, but replace calvillio with Castillo

lol, whoops!

[blue_or_die]

Calvillo for all categories thnx

[dd]

If they continue to win, I m thinking Jason Maas has to be the front runner for Coach of the Year

[TecnoGenius]

Randolph is eligible but Terrell Bonds isn't. Bonds played 4 games in the NFL.

Thanks!

If Randolph starts when Neuf/Dobson are both healthy... that will be yuge.  We shall see if he beats out the intended plan.  Maybe we try the "normal NAT" line up for one game and it stinks and put Randolph in for the next one?  My knowledge of Mafia says Randolph doesn't start over the NATs, even though in my mind he does.

Too bad Ford doesn't count as a rookie.  He kind of is, since I don't think he ever started a full season here before?

[TecnoGenius]

I was thinking that we will probably have 4 all-stars

All-CFL!  Get with the program you out of touch yeller-at-clouds!

       

(this is facetiousness, for the sarcasm-impaired)

[J5V]

If they continue to win, I m thinking Jason Maas has to be the front runner for Coach of the Year

If they continue to win, I m thinking Mike O'Shea has to be the front runner for Coach of the Year

[dd]

If they continue to win, I m thinking Mike O'Shea has to be the front runner for Coach of the Year

I think they will be the east and west finalists respectively

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Brady making his case tonight.

[Jesse]

Brady making his case tonight.

With a handful of TDs, he's an easy front runner.

[TecnoGenius]

With a handful of TDs, he's an easy front runner.

He'll have to have a killer last few games though.

This is the first game Brady has really broken out for fantasy points.  Good for him!

[Jesse]

He'll have to have a killer last few games though.

This is the first game Brady has really broken out for fantasy points.  Good for him!

I don't know that it needs to be killer, he's exactly on pace with his yards from last year. The only difference is TDs.

If he's able to pack on a few more in the final 4, who else is in the conversation?

[dd]

Dru Brown stock dropped this weekend.

I am thinking Brady has to be in the conversation with Fajardo for MOP, and it'll come down to the last stretch of games to see who takes it. My money's on Brady!!

[TecnoGenius]

I don't know that it needs to be killer, he's exactly on pace with his yards from last year. The only difference is TDs.

If he's able to pack on a few more in the final 4, who else is in the conversation?

If Cody keeps winning, then he's a lock, just like Kelly in '23.

And TDs are a big part of MOP.  It's not enough to just win the rushing title by 100Y or so.  That's not "outstanding".  Win it by 400Y or be the main difference maker in games (a la AH33) -- that means getting those really tough TDs and 2nd down conversions.

[Jesse]

If Cody keeps winning, then he's a lock, just like Kelly in '23.

And TDs are a big part of MOP.  It's not enough to just win the rushing title by 100Y or so.  That's not "outstanding".  Win it by 400Y or be the main difference maker in games (a la AH33) -- that means getting those really tough TDs and 2nd down conversions.

What has Cody done that separates him from the pack?

He's 6th in yards and TDs and Montreal went 4-0 when he was injured.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

What has Cody done that separates him from the pack?

He's 6th in yards and TDs and Montreal went 4-0 when he was injured.

Agreed. I am not even sure Fajardo's been the best QB this season of the starters, never mind MOP overall.

[TecnoGenius]

What has Cody done that separates him from the pack?

Does nothing but win and will get them to the GC?

He only has weaker stats because a) he missed a bunch of games, b) he's not a gun slinger.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Does nothing but win and will get them to the GC?

He only has weaker stats because a) he missed a bunch of games, b) he's not a gun slinger.

Sure, but MOP isn't given to the QB who's team wins the most. No doubt he's had a great season but MOP good? Not sure.

[Jesse]

Does nothing but win and will get them to the GC?

He only has weaker stats because a) he missed a bunch of games, b) he's not a gun slinger.

Your argument against Brady is he doesn't have the stats, but your argument for Cody is he doesn't have the stats?

Cody has done nothing to deserve any MOP votes.

[TecnoGenius]

Sure, but MOP isn't given to the QB who's team wins the most. No doubt he's had a great season but MOP good? Not sure.

Ya, but no other QB is having much of a year either (after Dru's recent failures), and worst still, those other QBs (BLM/MBT) are losing games!  How can you give a QB who loses most games MOP, especially since that means a lot of yards are coming in garbage time?

Did Kelly fully earn the MOP in '23 or was it because his team was like 17-1 and he started almost every game?

[TecnoGenius]

Your argument against Brady is he doesn't have the stats, but your argument for Cody is he doesn't have the stats?

Cody has done nothing to deserve any MOP votes.

Hey, I'm fully onboard with y'all about Brady winning MOP.  I want him to.  I just think he'll need to do super-exceptional things down the stretch.  He hasn't earned it yet.  Don't take my word for it, just wait to see who the media votes for if he just keeps chugging the same old same old way.

Who won our forum MOP straw poll again?  Ya, wasn't it Cody?  And I didn't even vote for him there!

My main argument is Brady hasn't been exceptional (yet).  He hasn't missed more than 1ish games, so there's half the stats right there.  He's on a run-first O, so any RB we start is going to get stats.

I haven't looked at Cody's stats, but I bet if you extrapolate over the missed games his TD count and ratio would be pretty darn good.

Keep in mind, I hate Cody.  I think I hate him more than everyone here.  People get mad at me for hating him so much.  And here I am boosting him for MOP?  Only because if you look at it logically, he'll likely be the pick.  By all means, I hope many other players step up to steal it from him.  But until then, I bet he takes it.

[Jesse]

Ya, but no other QB is having much of a year either (after Dru's recent failures), and worst still, those other QBs (BLM/MBT) are losing games!  How can you give a QB who loses most games MOP, especially since that means a lot of yards are coming in garbage time?

Did Kelly fully earn the MOP in '23 or was it because his team was like 17-1 and he started almost every game?

Brady also should have won in '23. Complete QB bias. If we have made Collaros our nominee, it would have been hard to cast a vote for Kelly over Zach.


All that said, Kelly did play 18 games, and had some statistical success. Over 4000 yards and 10+ yards per attempt.

Cody is the bottom half of the league in measured statistics and his back-up was just as successful as he was. He has zero case.

[TecnoGenius]

Cody is the bottom half of the league in measured statistics and his back-up was just as successful as he was. He has zero case.

As Cody-hater-in-chief, I hope you're right!

Oh ya, the MOP/MOC is often the QB and/or coach who won the GC the previous year then has a good follow-up year.  That is the definition of Cody/Maas.  Look at the awards in '23 after the '22 GC upset win.

[Jesse]

Hey, I'm fully onboard with y'all about Brady winning MOP.  I want him to.  I just think he'll need to do super-exceptional things down the stretch.  He hasn't earned it yet.  Don't take my word for it, just wait to see who the media votes for if he just keeps chugging the same old same old way.

Who won our forum MOP straw poll again?  Ya, wasn't it Cody?  And I didn't even vote for him there!

My main argument is Brady hasn't been exceptional (yet).  He hasn't missed more than 1ish games, so there's half the stats right there.  He's on a run-first O, so any RB we start is going to get stats.

I haven't looked at Cody's stats, but I bet if you extrapolate over the missed games his TD count and ratio would be pretty darn good.

Keep in mind, I hate Cody.  I think I hate him more than everyone here.  People get mad at me for hating him so much.  And here I am boosting him for MOP?  Only because if you look at it logically, he'll likely be the pick.  By all means, I hope many other players step up to steal it from him.  But until then, I bet he takes it.

I admit to being biased against Cody, but I don't understand your arguments. I've never heard of a player winning MOP by extrapolating stats they "could have had".

When Nathan Rourke got injured, Zach won MOP. He didn't lose the West nomination because Rourke "would've/shouldve/could've got 6000+ passing yards, etc.

[bwiser]

Most Outstanding Player | Brady
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Ford
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Castillo
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Wilson
    Coach of the Year | Younger (Bomber coach of the year)

This is the same picks I would make. Wilson and Castillo probably have the best chance of moving on to be the west representative. Bryant may get some votes as well for O line.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

This is the same picks I would make. Wilson and Castillo probably have the best chance of moving on to be the west representative. Bryant may get some votes as well for O line.

If the Bombers keep winning right through to the playoffs re-establishing their dominance and Brady keeps putting up good numbers he will definitely have a good chance of emerging as the MOP in the West as well as MOC by default.  It's too late for Rourke to do enough and there really is nobody else that stands out this season, voters will agree to choose the most consistent performer at least in the West.

[blue_gold_84]

Oliveira for MOP.

[TecnoGenius]

Well, Riderfans MOP thread had Brady on the short list... so I guess he's a legit option.  (They'd be loathe to add him if it wasn't a realistic possibility.)

They've come to the conclusion we have: it'll come down to who does the most exceptional stuff in these last 4 games.

[TBURGESS]

The QB with the best stats this year is BLM and it's not even a close race. 

Brady O's the top rusher, but his TD's are way down this year.

McInnis is the top receiver & Hardy's just a wee bit behind. 

I'd say those are the top 3 MOP's & I'd give it to BLM for having his best season since 2018 after being washed up for 3 years.  

[theaardvark]

The QB with the best stats this year is BLM and it's not even a close race.

Brady O's the top rusher, but his TD's are way down this year.

McInnis is the top receiver & Hardy's just a wee bit behind.

I'd say those are the top 3 MOP's & I'd give it to BLM for having his best season since 2018 after being washed up for 3 years. 

The only reason Brady's TD's are low is Streveler. In the first game with no Streveler, BO20 gets 2 TD's.  Chicken Box.

MOP doesn't rely solely on stats.  BLM may statistically be doing well, but his team results stink.  If he makes the playoffs and continues compiling his stats, maybe.  But I'm pretty sure BO20 is going to continue improving his yards and TD totals to the win.

[Jesse]

The only reason Brady's TD's are low is Streveler. In the first game with no Streveler, BO20 gets 2 TD's.  Chicken Box.

MOP doesn't rely solely on stats.  BLM may statistically be doing well, but his team results stink.  If he makes the playoffs and continues compiling his stats, maybe.  But I'm pretty sure BO20 is going to continue improving his yards and TD totals to the win.

Not really relevant in the MOP discussion. You get the TDs or you don't.

[TecnoGenius]

McInnis is the top receiver & Hardy's just a wee bit behind.

I'd say those are the top 3 MOP's & I'd give it to BLM for having his best season since 2018 after being washed up for 3 years. 

McInnis went from 130Y a game to 40Y a game.  He hasn't done squat in many, many weeks (except maybe 1 game).  If McInnis keeps this suckage up, how do you hand MOP to someone who got all their stats in weeks 1-8 but then dropped off like a rock?

IOW, I think being hot at the end of the season counts for more than being hot at the beginning, all else being equal.  Recency bias.  And excitement factor.

My prediction is McInnis won't be doing much in the remaining games because his chemistry was with VAJ.  Rourke seems to ignore him.

As for BLM: didn't he also throw a ton of INTs?  INTs and losing weigh heavily against you in the MOP race.  If a QB puts up 500Y passing every game but loses all 18 games, do they get MOP?  I'd say no.

[TBURGESS]

It's Most Outstanding Player, not MOP on a winning team. BLM's done way more on a bad team than any other QB has on winning teams. 

[blue_gold_84]

MOP doesn't rely solely on stats.

No. Just predominantly.

[theaardvark]

There is no clear cut MOP at this moment, but there are still games to be played.

High paid players aren't excelling, rookies are being a little surprising, but no real standouts.  Pretty much every QB has been pulled or injured.  No defensive player has been lights out for a full 14 games. 

This is not an MOP year, looking at the standings, especially in the west shows why.

The player that is being argued for is on the 8th place team in a 9 team league. 

Yes, you have to have some stats to back up a claim for MOP.  But its not just about stats, its about effectiveness.  Is your team better for your play.  Are you carrying your team on your back, and winning.

BLM is having a good year, but he's not carrying his team on his back.  He's folding when it matters most.  THAT is not MOP stuff.  MOP comes on to the field, late in the 4th, 2 scores down and engineers the win.  Or shuts down the opponent.

We might see a D player in consideration.  For MOP and/or MOC.  Again, there are consequential games to be played, and how the current "candidates" do in those games will decide the winner, I have no doubt.  Because right now, its a toss up and a consolation award given to a player who is not "outstanding".

In My Humble Opinion.

[bunker]

https://3downnation.com/2024/09/25/could-bo-levi-mitchell-win-cfl-m-o-p-even-if-hamilton-tiger-cats-miss-playoffs/

[Jesse]

It's Most Outstanding Player, not MOP on a winning team. BLM's done way more on a bad team than any other QB has on winning teams.

Can't think of too many situations where an Outstanding QB is last in the standings.

Is it outstanding to rack up passing yards when your team is being blown out and the defence is in prevent?

BLM has been benched for his play this season and only went back in when Powell got injured. I have a really hard time getting behind a case for BLM this season.

[The Zipp]

BLM for MOP is a joke at this point in the season. MAYBE if they win out and make the playoffs. 

[dd]

BLM for MOP is a joke at this point in the season. MAYBE if they win out and make the playoffs. 

A total joke. If Powell was healthy, he wouldn't even be playing, how can he possibly be MOP. Just because Hamilton sucks, and he's done decent, that doesn't make him an MOP. I would say Collaros is more of an MOP than hillbilly Mitchell.

[TecnoGenius]

It's Most Outstanding Player, not MOP on a winning team. BLM's done way more on a bad team than any other QB has on winning teams.

So, answer the question:

If a QB puts up 500Y passing every game but loses all 18 games, do they get MOP?

[TecnoGenius]

No. Just predominantly.

If it was mostly a stats thing then a computer program could decide the MOP.  But it's not, because there's a big human factor involved: impressions, emotions, bias, memory.  The voters are human, bringing all that baggage to the table.

Many years it's easy to see the guy with the most WOW factor.  The stats usually follow the WOW.

Some years, like this one will be, it's more of a "pick the slightly better guy out of a handful".  Often the MOP-is-QB years are like that.

Looking at the list, it's often when non-QBs are chosen that it is truly the WOW guy: Solly, Cornish, Owens, Simon, Stegall.  Some QB years deserve it too, like BLM for at least 1 of his years, and maybe Zach 2021.  QBs are often the easy-way-out convenient no-good-choice years.  So that will probably be what happens this year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFL's_Most_Outstanding_Player_Award

[TecnoGenius]

https://3downnation.com/2024/09/25/could-bo-levi-mitchell-win-cfl-m-o-p-even-if-hamilton-tiger-cats-miss-playoffs/

Haha:

"Can a player win M.O.P. despite missing the playoffs? History would suggest the answer is yes as two individuals have previously done so: Willie Burden and Jimmy Edwards."

Both were RBs.

1975 & 1977.  So basically half a century since a losing team got the MOP.  So I wouldn't bet money on it happening again.

[Waffler]

Because there is no one obvious, someone is going to get it based on their career. This is what voters will think: Bo Levi, great career but has his already. Brady does not, therefore it's his turn.

[theaardvark]

Can you be MOP and not be MOC? 

[TBURGESS]

So, answer the question:

If a QB puts up 500Y passing every game but loses all 18 games, do they get MOP?

Absolutely they do.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Probably not possible to throw for 9000 yards and lose every game but if it happened I'd vote for them! ha

[theaardvark]

I guess the BLM for MOP debate hinges on can you have excellent numbers but be totally ineffective at winning, and be "Most Outstanding".  I guess its a "famous" vs. "Infamous" debate.

All things being equal, a player that wins takes the award over a player that doesn't.  A player that is healthy over a player that misses games.  A player the coach has 100% confidence in every game over a player that his coach pulls his starting job to start a rookie, only to get back in due to injury.

If any player balls out the last 4 games, I think we stop talking about BLM's MOP potential.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Haha:

"Can a player win M.O.P. despite missing the playoffs? History would suggest the answer is yes as two individuals have previously done so: Willie Burden and Jimmy Edwards."

Both were RBs.

1975 & 1977.  So basically half a century since a losing team got the MOP.  So I wouldn't bet money on it happening again.

Willie Burden had an outstanding season in 1975, I remember it well.

"He set a new CFL single-season rushing record, running 332 times for 1,896 yards. He also set a CFL record with 2,127 yards from scrimmage and led the league with 2,387 all-purpose yards and 15 total touchdowns. His best day was November 2 against the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, when he tied Lovell Coleman's team record of 238 yards in a game. Burden was rewarded with the CFL's Most Outstanding Player Award and All Canadian All Star honours in 1975."

Can't even recall a player named Jimmy Edwards.

[Jesse]

So, answer the question:

If a QB puts up 500Y passing every game but loses all 18 games, do they get MOP?

If this was a magical fantasy land where the team lost each game by a score like 38-35 and they were in every contest but the defence was simply that bad, sure; give that man the MOP.

In the far more common scenario of a QB being ineffective for the first 2-3 quarters of the game and then racking up a bunch of garbage time yards when the winning team switches to prevent, then no. That's not outstanding.

There's a reason awards mostly goes to players from winning teams.

[Waffler]

The Bo Levi scenario I see is him riding the pine for most of the rest of the way. Bo is not the future and Hamilton realizing this, plays Powell as soon as they are eliminated.  This leaves him stuck around 4,000 yards and 99.9 QB rating. How do those stats look now? MOP worthy?

Brady on the other hand is getting the tough yards that win games in the 4th quarter. Over 1,000 and counting. I HOPE it is Brady vs Bo Levi, that's a slam dunk win for us.

[theaardvark]

The Bo Levi scenario I see is him riding the pine for most of the rest of the way. Bo is not the future and Hamilton realizing this, plays Powell as soon as they are eliminated.  This leaves him stuck around 4,000 yards and 99.9 QB rating. How do those stats look now? MOP worthy?

Brady on the other hand is getting the tough yards that win games in the 4th quarter. Over 1,000 and counting. I HOPE it is Brady vs Bo Levi, that's a slam dunk win for us.

The only problem with Brady winning, is that he has to win MOC as well.  So I can see votes going elsewhere for MOP, and a unanimous MOC.

[gobombersgo]

The Bo Levi scenario I see is him riding the pine for most of the rest of the way. Bo is not the future and Hamilton realizing this, plays Powell as soon as they are eliminated.  This leaves him stuck around 4,000 yards and 99.9 QB rating. How do those stats look now? MOP worthy?

Brady on the other hand is getting the tough yards that win games in the 4th quarter. Over 1,000 and counting. I HOPE it is Brady vs Bo Levi, that's a slam dunk win for us.

Some people are saying that Brady is gaining those yards in the 4th after the team has built a lead and have the game in hand.

These so called yards after beatdown should be discounted according to them.

[gobombersgo]

Bryson Vesnaver @PFF_Bryson
Sep 24
(Brady) On pace for fewer yards than he got last year when he didn't win. Only two touchdowns. Below average missed tackle rate. Lower first down rate and lower rushing grade than Ka'Deem Carey. Solid chunk of numbers coming in 4th quarter when WPG has game out of reach.

Derek Taylor @DTonOB
Sep 24
Was talking about this last night: in the MOP race Oliveira is the only person who will have to beat the field *AND* 2023 Brady Oliveira.

It's unfair to Brady (in this case). And I have to remind myself every year as I fill out ballots—"is he the best _____ this year?"

Here's what I find for 4th Q rushing yards with his team up 9+ (top-3 in rushing yards):

Oliveira 21 carries for 146 yards (1,021 total)
Stanback 20/74 (959)
Carey 5/41 (872)

[Jesse]

Bryson Vesnaver @PFF_Bryson
Sep 24
(Brady) On pace for fewer yards than he got last year when he didn't win. Only two touchdowns. Below average missed tackle rate. Lower first down rate and lower rushing grade than Ka'Deem Carey. Solid chunk of numbers coming in 4th quarter when WPG has game out of reach.

Derek Taylor @DTonOB
Sep 24
Was talking about this last night: in the MOP race Oliveira is the only person who will have to beat the field *AND* 2023 Brady Oliveira.

It's unfair to Brady (in this case). And I have to remind myself every year as I fill out ballots—"is he the best _____ this year?"

Here's what I find for 4th Q rushing yards with his team up 9+ (top-3 in rushing yards):

Oliveira 21 carries for 146 yards (1,021 total)
Stanback 20/74 (959)
Carey 5/41 (872)

Why would this be a negative though? That's when you depend on your running game to control the clock and grind out the game.

[TecnoGenius]

Can you be MOP and not be MOC?

I really want a rule that says if you get MOP, someone else gets MOC.  Both season awards and GC awards.  It's dumb that if you're Canadian you automatically win both.

[TecnoGenius]

Some people are saying that Brady is gaining those yards in the 4th after the team has built a lead and have the game in hand.

These so called yards after beatdown should be discounted according to them.

I can recall only one game where we were clearly guaranteed to win early in the 4th: the blowout donut BC game.  Every other game the other team had a chance where 1 TD puts them right back in the fight.  So I don't know where anyone gets off saying those are YABs.

This isn't '21 or '22 where we were winning every game without trying and teams were giving up by the middle of the 3rd Q.

Also, Brady has been struggling hard behind his weakest OL since he became starter.  Only now is the unit starting to become effective.  This should actually add points to Brady's bid because he's done a lot more himself vs the big holes and downfield blocking the other high-yard RBs enjoy.

I'm actually shocked Brady broke 1k this season.

[ichabod_crane]

Calvillo for all categories thnx

Did Anthony come out of retirement?

[Jesse]

Did Anthony come out of retirement?

I write Calvillo every single time. Most of the time I correct myself, but it comes out every time.

[theaardvark]

I really want a rule that says if you get MOP, someone else gets MOC.  Both season awards and GC awards.  It's dumb that if you're Canadian you automatically win both.

100% agree, but then the MOC is actually the SMOC... how good is an award if you know that you were second? Also, there may be performance bonuses involved. 

Each award has a name.  If you are MOP, then you are MOC, by definition.

Maybe the flip flop each year?  If the MOP is Canadian, then instead of an MOC award, an MOI award?

Or the MOC award only gets awarded if the MOP is not a C?

Or just give it to them...

[TecnoGenius]

100% agree, but then the MOC is actually the SMOC... how good is an award if you know that you were second? Also, there may be performance bonuses involved. 

Each award has a name.  If you are MOP, then you are MOC, by definition.

Maybe the flip flop each year?  If the MOP is Canadian, then instead of an MOC award, an MOI award?

Or the MOC award only gets awarded if the MOP is not a C?

Or just give it to them...

I think you're on the right track with MOI.  They should have two awards: MOC and MOI (or MOA).

Then for MOP you can do either:
1) nothing, it ceases to exist
2) a MOP is chosen from the MOC/MOI winners: whoever was better

The original intent of having a MOP and MOC was clearly to make sure a Canadian gets recognized even though an IMP will always (except for recently) win MOP.  It was never intended a NAT will walk away with both, because then all the IMPs get the shaft.  It can never be the other way around (IMP winning both)...

(N.B. Globs can be included in IMPs if the impossible happens...)

[Jesse]

100% agree, but then the MOC is actually the SMOC... how good is an award if you know that you were second? Also, there may be performance bonuses involved. 

Each award has a name.  If you are MOP, then you are MOC, by definition.

Maybe the flip flop each year?  If the MOP is Canadian, then instead of an MOC award, an MOI award?

Or the MOC award only gets awarded if the MOP is not a C?

Or just give it to them...

I think you guys are overthinking things again.

If the MOP is Canadian; yes, they are also the MOC. Same as when Elimimian won the MOP and MODP in 2014.

[TecnoGenius]

I think you guys are overthinking things again.

If the MOP is Canadian; yes, they are also the MOC. Same as when Elimimian won the MOP and MODP in 2014.

But it's happening like all the time now (2 times now in a few GCs and a possibility this season with Brady).  It's kind of lame.

Your MODP point further proves my point, though thankfully it will probably never happen again.

I would therefore propose:

MOOA
MOOC
MODA
MODC
(3rd letter: O=offence, D=defence)

and then MOP (if you want one) is picked from those 4 "semi-finalists".

As for overthinking, that's my middle name.

[Jesse]

But it's happening like all the time now (2 times now in a few GCs and a possibility this season with Brady).  It's kind of lame.

Your MODP point further proves my point, though thankfully it will probably never happen again.

I would therefore propose:

MOOA
MOOC
MODA
MODC
(3rd letter: O=offence, D=defence)

and then MOP (if you want one) is picked from those 4 "semi-finalists".

As for overthinking, that's my middle name.

I personally don't like it when people rush to change long standing things over non-common events.

A rouge ends the game - need to take it away.

2 ties happen in a season - need to change OT rules again.

Too much tinkering doesn't make things better, imo. There will always be weird outcomes every once in a while. That's what makes the game unexpected and fun.

[TecnoGenius]

I personally don't like it when people rush to change long standing things over non-common events.

I 100% fully agree in general.  But it's becoming very much not non-common...

Look at 2 legit MOP contenders this season:

Brady
McInnis
maybe even T.Ford?

Both NATs, both would trigger the lame MOP=MOC thing.

I guess we can wait and see and only do something about it when it's happening every other year.  Again, I just feel bad for the IMPs (the vast majority of starters) not getting any recognition when MOC=MOP.  I want to maximize the players we recognize, not minimize.  And the award presentations are dumb: "stay up here, you get the other trophy too!".

No one ever imagined the NATs would be better than the IMPs, never in a million years.  It's quite a testament to Canadian talent that we're even having this conversation.

[Jesse]

I 100% fully agree in general.  But it's becoming very much not non-common...

Look at 2 legit MOP contenders this season:

Brady
McInnis
maybe even T.Ford?

Both NATs, both would trigger the lame MOP=MOC thing.

I guess we can wait and see and only do something about it when it's happening every other year.  Again, I just feel bad for the IMPs (the vast majority of starters) not getting any recognition when MOC=MOP.  I want to maximize the players we recognize, not minimize.  And the award presentations are dumb: "stay up here, you get the other trophy too!".

No one ever imagined the NATs would be better than the IMPs, never in a million years.  It's quite a testament to Canadian talent that we're even having this conversation.

For the record, I don't consider this a problem.

Best player wins multiple awards...so?

[BLUEBOMBER]

    Most Outstanding Player | Oliviera
    Most Outstanding Defensive Player | Tyrell Ford
    Most Outstanding Canadian | Oliviera
    Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman | Bryant
    Most Outstanding Special Teams Player | Castillo
    Most Outstanding Rookie | Ontaria Wilson

[TecnoGenius]

Most Outstanding Rookie | Ontaria Wilson

Ya, I think after the last couple of weeks' performance, Pokey clinched the MOR for WPG.

[Jesse]

Ya, I think after the last couple of weeks' performance, Pokey clinched the MOR.

For the Bombers. Shemar Bridges out of Hamilton is still beating him in most categories.

[TecnoGenius]

For the Bombers. Shemar Bridges out of Hamilton is still beating him in most categories.

Yes, I meant for WPG.  I updated my post to clarify.  As for best league-wide, I'll have to see the final lists to decide on that!  Unfortunately for my fantasy team, HAM Bridges stunk out the joint this weekend!