Evan Holm /Tyrell Ford

[Jesse]

You're correct when you look at it out of context.  Add in his desire to start and the possibility of a $300k+ contract and most teams will bow out quickly.

Yeah, his market will depend on how many teams see him as a legit starting QB.

I imagine most teams would want his salary based around games started, but it just takes one.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

2021 DB crew with Alford was better than both now and Swaggerville.  IMHO

(The proof is in the cup?  And the fact the DBs basically won that game twice for us.)

The 2021 crew also had a seriously frightening pass rush which makes playing defensive back significantly easier.

This crew is almost doing it in reverse. The DBs are making it hard to find receivers which is helping the pass rush play a bit better.

Not sure which group is better but if I was forced to choose I'd say this one and that's really saying something because they were good in 2021.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The 2021 crew also had a seriously frightening pass rush which makes playing defensive back significantly easier.

This crew is almost doing it in reverse. The DBs are making it hard to find receivers which is helping the pass rush play a bit better.

Not sure which group is better but if I was forced to choose I'd say this one and that's really saying something because they were good in 2021.

I much prefer the 2019 hard pass rush approach, giving talented QB's unlimited time to find a receiver and throw the ball extends every defensive play 3-5 seconds.  Over the course of a game this becomes more tiring and allows for more errors.

[Blueforlife]

OK, (see bolded statement) so you are doubling down on what you originally said "blank cheque" and "break the bank". Pay him "what he wants" is exactly the same thing.  But, no matter what he wants, that doesn't mean it would be wise to pay him "what he wants" if that means potentially jeopardizing other position(s).  Would I want to pay Ford whatever he asks for if it meant losing, for example, Holm and/or a combination of other players we consider important to the team?  It's not simple and floating statements like "pay the man what he wants (blank cheque)" is very clearly something the team would never do.  Too many other factors to consider.

Ford certainly will command a raise and other teams, especially those weak at DB, will take a run at him - not even mentioning the draw there will be for both brothers to play together - and no doubt the Bombers will make the best offer they can without downgrading the needs of the team.

You don't want to over pay him, I think it's worth it (within reason).  That is all.  No need to go over it again and again.  Agree to disagree.  We don't see eye to eye on much of what we post, that's ok let's move on.
This is what I said
"pay the man what he wants /what he is worth /what the market would pay"
Doesn't mean I'm right and we don't know if your  ideas are right either.  Time will tell.  We won't solve this problem by arguing about it.  The Bombers will.

[ModAdmin]

You don't want to over pay him, I think it's worth it (within reason).  That is all.  No need to go over it again and again.  Agree to disagree.  We don't see eye to eye on much of what we post, that's ok let's move on.
This is what I said
"pay the man what he wants /what he is worth /what the market would pay"
Doesn't mean I'm right and we don't know if your  ideas are right either.  Time will tell.  We won't solve this problem by arguing about it.  The Bombers will.

I see it as a discussion, not an argument.

[Blueforlife]

I see it as a discussion, not an argument.

Nice to know thanks

[TecnoGenius]

We no doubt will have an opportunity to match any deal anyone negotiates, and other teams will know that, and can make crazy offers, knowing we will most likely match in a GC hosting year.

What's our top DB making?  $150k for Nichols?  Ya, that's usually the max we ever pay DBs.  And Nichols has more seniority/loyalty here.  So I'm pretty sure Ford would max out at the same here ($150k).

If Fatboi retires and we plan with Ford to be our long-term ratio-busting D NAT, then we could take Fatboi's premium and put it into Ford, meaning max ~$170k for Ford.  (Fatboi's DT spot would then be forced to be an ELC IMP.)

So if Ford wants max pay, and he could maybe get $200k somewhere, then we let him walk.  If he wants to become a franchise guy like Chezie was, then he might accept what we can offer.

Lastly, it'll be hard to pay all of Ford/Holm/Nichols what they are worth, because they are all worth Nichols money.  Maybe Parker stays for cheap and we retain Bonds, and get some new future-star scouting finds for depth.

[Blue In BC]

What's our top DB making?  $150k for Nichols?  Ya, that's usually the max we ever pay DBs.  And Nichols has more seniority/loyalty here.  So I'm pretty sure Ford would max out at the same here ($150k).

If Fatboi retires and we plan with Ford to be our long-term ratio-busting D NAT, then we could take Fatboi's premium and put it into Ford, meaning max ~$170k for Ford.  (Fatboi's DT spot would then be forced to be an ELC IMP.)

So if Ford wants max pay, and he could maybe get $200k somewhere, then we let him walk.  If he wants to become a franchise guy like Chezie was, then he might accept what we can offer.

Lastly, it'll be hard to pay all of Ford/Holm/Nichols what they are worth, because they are all worth Nichols money.  Maybe Parker stays for cheap and we retain Bonds, and get some new future-star scouting finds for depth.

What a player is worth and what a team is willing to pay are interesting discussions. Ford demands a premium as a Canadian but even that has to have a limit.

Our ratio may change next year or not. Too early to tell. At times we're starting 10 Canadians so we'll have ratio room, in theory.

The question is where does any amount shift from to Ford? There any number of veteran Canadians that may not be with the team in 2025. Most don't have big ELC's but they're not minimum either.

[RebusRankin]

Ford is 26, Canadian, playing a position usually not played by Canadians and playing at a high level. You pay him well and make the necessary roster adjustments elsewhere.

[Blueforlife]

Ford is 26, Canadian, playing a position usually not played by Canadians and playing at a high level. You pay him well and make the necessary roster adjustments elsewhere.

Sums it up nicely, pay the man!

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Ford is 26, Canadian, playing a position usually not played by Canadians and playing at a high level. You pay him well and make the necessary roster adjustments elsewhere.

Hopefully Kyle Walters has learned, he overpaid for certain players this past off-season and ended up weaker in multiple positions. Lost multiple veteran players and gained little to no improvement from the players he chose to overpay.

[Blue In BC]

Hopefully Kyle Walters has learned, he overpaid for certain players this past off-season and ended up weaker in multiple positions. Lost multiple veteran players and gained little to no improvement from the players he chose to overpay.

Balancing the talent on the roster and SMS is not an easy task. For every player there is a tipping point. I'm not sure where that will be and it depends on when any player is signed. Those that sign before free agency stand a better chance of more money. Those that sign later may not get what they want because teams have planned / budgeted SMS elsewhere, regardless of how much free cash was initially available.

I always lean towards signing our top Canadians before the end of the season to use any remaining SMS. As a 2nd option before free agency frenzy.

It is a two street. Some players will test free agency before signing. This can be both a benefit or a problem for both sides.

I think we'd all be happy if Ford is signed right after the Grey Cup or even extended prior to the end of the season. Some teams are extending players already, so it's possible that could happen.

[theaardvark]

Hopefully Kyle Walters has learned, he overpaid for certain players this past off-season and ended up weaker in multiple positions. Lost multiple veteran players and gained little to no improvement from the players he chose to overpay.

The multiple veterans he lost would have had to been "overpaid" to keep them.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Kind of a false equivalency.

We have paid players that we did not get full value from.  Lawler is the prime example.  Did he not perform, was he overdefended, or did we underutilize him?  Who knows, but his stats did not equal his paycheck.

Its a lot different with a DB.  It is much harder to misuse a DB, or to have a DB neutralized.  I don't think a DB will ever get $300k, and whatever he does get, I think he will earn.

Will a Ford have the effect a Rourke will have on a roster?  Of course not.  And that's why QB's get $500k+++ and top DB's get $150k+.  With 5 DB's to pay, its hard to give them all a premium salary, hence losing a Sayles, or a Houston when another team outbids us.  Ford's play is worth a top DB salary, and his passport gets him a bump on top.  Someone will take a run at him, no doubt.  Depending on how high they go, we should match, and add the guaranteed money they can't offer.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The multiple veterans he lost would have had to been "overpaid" to keep them.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Kind of a false equivalency.

We have paid players that we did not get full value from.  Lawler is the prime example.  Did he not perform, was he overdefended, or did we underutilize him?  Who knows, but his stats did not equal his paycheck.

Its a lot different with a DB.  It is much harder to misuse a DB, or to have a DB neutralized.  I don't think a DB will ever get $300k, and whatever he does get, I think he will earn.

Will a Ford have the effect a Rourke will have on a roster?  Of course not.  And that's why QB's get $500k+++ and top DB's get $150k+.  With 5 DB's to pay, its hard to give them all a premium salary, hence losing a Sayles, or a Houston when another team outbids us.  Ford's play is worth a top DB salary, and his passport gets him a bump on top.  Someone will take a run at him, no doubt.  Depending on how high they go, we should match, and add the guaranteed money they can't offer.

Patently false, a number of players who were not re-signed were not overpaid and would have made this year's team immediately better.  Grant, Bailey, Clement and yes even Jeffcoat.  He brought a pass-rush to the team that can not be duplicated by any single player currently on the roster including Jefferson, and I believe he was paid fairly for his contribution.

[blue_gold_84]

Balancing the talent on the roster and SMS is not an easy task.

And yet, Walters has done a pretty solid job over several seasons with this.

It's easy to crap on him with the gift of hindsight but that isn't saying much.