S. Lemon

[TecnoGenius]

Gambling is different because it calls into question the integrity of the game. How many fans would just say "it's fixed" and tune out? Rose, for example, is known to have bet on games he played in and managed. It was not just a few times, he started in 1975 and continued to 1989 when he was caught.

Yup.  If players start to rig or throw games then the CFL is ruined for millions of fans.  Kelly's dumb moves affect only one person.  Sucks for that one person, but it's not the same as destroying a whole league.

[TecnoGenius]

I don't care if players bet on other teams games, but I do care if they bet on their own games.

Can't have that either, as then they can "criss-cross" by arranging with their friends on other teams to bet on theirs whilst they bet on theirs (you get my meaning!).  Criss-cross: Throw Momma From The Train.

My curiosity wonders: how did Lemon get caught?  Someone did an audit years later, or did "loose lips sink ships", and who did he miff enough to rat him out?!

It's all really too bad as he always seemed like one of the "good guys" in pressers, etc.  He mostly kept his nose clean, which isn't always easy for a DL guy (compare: Marino).

[theaardvark]

I don't care if players bet on other teams games, but I do care if they bet on their own games.

It's "insider trading".  Players know better than others, they usually have connections with other players that they've played with, and can get information even if they aren't betting on their current team.

[TBURGESS]

It's "insider trading".  Players know better than others, they usually have connections with other players that they've played with, and can get information even if they aren't betting on their current team.

So what? That only hurts the bookies, and I don't give a rats *** about them. They make the odds, give themselves a clear advantage, and have their own insider information. 

[Jesse]

So what? That only hurts the bookies, and I don't give a rats *** about them. They make the odds, give themselves a clear advantage, and have their own insider information.

It has nothing to do with "insider trading". If players are gambling on games, it calls the games into question. Even in games in which they're not playing. You throw this play for me, I'll do it for you next time.

I'm personally having a hard time making a personal stance on this. It's the CFL, no one is getting rich playing or gambling. If players want to throw a few bucks on a game, probably nothing stopping them from doing via their spouse or friend, etc. So lifetime ban seems like heinous overkill.

That said, I am well aware of the fact that all sports leagues take this very seriously. No one needs to know who Pete Rose is. This has happened a half dozen times in that NFL and NHL in the past couple of years that I can recall off the top of my head. Miles Austin lost his NFL coaching job for betting on non-NFL games. The penalties are clearly established and have always been there.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

So what? That only hurts the bookies, and I don't give a rats *** about them. They make the odds, give themselves a clear advantage, and have their own insider information.

Another edgy hot take by TUBRGESS which is needlessly argumentative, serves no purpose, and makes little logical sense. I don't think anyone really cares whether you think CFL players should be able to bet on games they don't play in. They can't and get a lifetime ban if they do.

[TBURGESS]

It has nothing to do with "insider trading". If players are gambling on games, it calls the games into question. Even in games in which they're not playing. You throw this play for me, I'll do it for you next time.

I'm personally having a hard time making a personal stance on this. It's the CFL, no one is getting rich playing or gambling. If players want to throw a few bucks on a game, probably nothing stopping them from doing via their spouse or friend, etc. So lifetime ban seems like heinous overkill.

That said, I am well aware of the fact that all sports leagues take this very seriously. No one needs to know who Pete Rose is. This has happened a half dozen times in that NFL and NHL in the past couple of years that I can recall off the top of my head. Miles Austin lost his NFL coaching job for betting on non-NFL games. The penalties are clearly established and have always been there.

You're assuming that players will throw a game for their friends? I don't see that as realistic.

The reason that leagues take it very seriously is because gambling is a serious business & those who run it don't want anyone to have any advantage over the house. It's the same reason that card counting is thought of as cheating instead of being the smartest gambler in the room. 

Another edgy hot take by TUBRGESS which is needlessly argumentative, serves no purpose, and makes little logical sense. I don't think anyone really cares whether you think CFL players should be able to bet on games they don't play in. They can't and get a lifetime ban if they do.

Same comment again? Nothing edgy or argumentative about it. It's purpose is to further the current discussion and I don't have any idea what you mean by logical sense.

[blue_gold_84]

...lifetime ban seems like heinous overkill.

No question. I think it's meant to set a precedent and also act as a deterrent, though.

[ModAdmin]

There are clearly, very obvious, reasons why virtually every professional sports league in Canada and the USA disallow player gambling.  There is POTENTIAL for fixing games.  Every player is made aware of this and therefore has no excuse for breaking the rule.  Comparing other personal issues like DUI, abuse and other law-breking activities does not directly affect outcome of games whereas gambling - on your own team or other teams - comes with a direct risk of risking the integrity of the game.

Players are also warned that there is a risk of up to a permanent suspension if they do gamble.

[Jesse]

You're assuming that players will throw a game for their friends? I don't see that as realistic.

If players won't throw games, then don't have any rules about it.

But it's obviously happened in the past and has made way for very clear rules and very harsh penalties.

[Jesse]

No question. I think it's meant to set a precedent and also act as a deterrent, though.

I wonder if it would have been different with a younger star player (always is, of course).

There are examples of players in other leagues being given "indefinite" suspensions; but are able to appeal after a certain length of time.

[TBURGESS]

If players won't throw games, then don't have any rules about it.

But it's obviously happened in the past and has made way for very clear rules and very harsh penalties.

Players have thrown their own games, but I can't think of any examples of players throwing games for a friend. If I were a betting man, I wouldn't count on my buddy throwing a game for me. 

'It is known' in other leagues is a poor comparator. Has anyone in the CFL been given a lifetime suspension for gambling before? If not, this sets the precedence going forward.

Gambling isn't mentioned in the CBA or the rules. Assuming that it's in writing somewhere in a contract, then Lemon got what he deserved. If not, then it needs to be added so every player sees it in writing.

[TecnoGenius]

You're assuming that players will throw a game for their friends? I don't see that as realistic.

Of course they will with their best bud or old dorm room mate, especially when there are, say, 50000 reasons to do so.  If you're a "normal" $100k-ish CFL player, 50000 tax-free reasons can be tempting.  Of course, you have to be devoid of morals and (now) willing to risk the Wrath Of Ambrosie.

[TecnoGenius]

I wonder if it would have been different with a younger star player (always is, of course).

Ya, banning Lemon now that he's 73 doesn't have the same punch on him if this occurred when he was 24.  He likely would have been hanging them up real soon anyhow.  Still, it's the best Ambrosie could do, and it sends a message.

[RebusRankin]

Johntay Porter got banned this year by the NBA for sports betting. No professional league is going to allow players to be on games, calls the results into question. Heck, if you go back to the early 1950s, college basketball was way more popular than the pros and they got rocked by a point shaving scandal by promininant players and programs.