Official Game Day Thread - Hamilton at Winnipeg August 23, 2024

[TecnoGenius]

What I'd seriously like to see is the video evidence from each team that has a beef with the officials and/or the Command Centre.

Now that we know what command is doing for reviews (in the SSK and TOR game we didn't know all this stuff!), I don't sense any bias by command.  Command is basically not overturning hardly anything (ya they did 2 tonight in OTT, but they were obvious in realtime).

So if there's bias causing WPG great harm this season, it has to be by the on-field refs.  Like that #22 ref in Proulx's crew.  There's no justification for him reaming us twice that way.  Maybe after his first horrific botch MOS chirped and so he then stuck it to us on purpose in the 2nd one?  Maybe his family was gambling on SSK?  Who knows.

And while I do believe on-field refs can be biased or badly botch things, hopefully it is self-limiting in the sense that the league will punish those clowns (like they did the CGY no-end ref), and they likely did the #22 guy for the SSK game.  So either the ref is benched or fired, or they are reprimanded and will hopefully not do it again.

The only fly in the ointment is why did command uphold the TOR non-DPI, and then the league told MOS we were right after all?  Was there bias with the command head ref?  Or is my theory correct that the memo may have read: "yes it was DPI, but not obvious in realtime and thus we will not overturn those".  MOS never gave us the wording, and the league hides these secret incantations.

[bomb squad]

�The clear and obvious principle is defined as having a clear, unobstructed view of the action in question, and the correct outcome is obvious when compared to an established standard created by the rules committee and the CFL officiating department.
On coaches' challenges and automatic reviews, Replay Officials will have a renewed focus on employing the Clear and Obvious principle in its decision-making.

As per the CFL. That to me means ignoring freeze-frames and slow-mo as there would be bodies in the way while they slow it down to find the right angle, no?

I don't see how you can make that inference. Besides, if they are now ignoring slo-mo and freeze frame, why not just say so?

[J5V]

Now that we know what command is doing for reviews (in the SSK and TOR game we didn't know all this stuff!), I don't sense any bias by command.  Command is basically not overturning hardly anything (ya they did 2 tonight in OTT, but they were obvious in realtime).

So if there's bias causing WPG great harm this season, it has to be by the on-field refs.  Like that #22 ref in Proulx's crew.  There's no justification for him reaming us twice that way.  Maybe after his first horrific botch MOS chirped and so he then stuck it to us on purpose in the 2nd one?  Maybe his family was gambling on SSK?  Who knows.

And while I do believe on-field refs can be biased or badly botch things, hopefully it is self-limiting in the sense that the league will punish those clowns (like they did the CGY no-end ref), and they likely did the #22 guy for the SSK game.  So either the ref is benched or fired, or they are reprimanded and will hopefully not do it again.

The only fly in the ointment is why did command uphold the TOR non-DPI, and then the league told MOS we were right after all?  Was there bias with the command head ref?  Or is my theory correct that the memo may have read: "yes it was DPI, but not obvious in realtime and thus we will not overturn those".  MOS never gave us the wording, and the league hides these secret incantations.

Thanks for the feedback. I know criticizing the league or the officials is not something any of us really want to do. I don't.

You've slightly missed my point. I'm saying if all teams compiled video evidence of them getting hurt by the officials/CC (including the Riders who seem to think Wpg is favored by the officials) I wonder who'd have the most to gripe about. I believe we win hands down. We have a mountain of video evidence and we're only just past the halfway point of the season. I'd love to see it, present it to the league, and ask for an explanation.

[J5V]

My take on this issue would go something like this ...

If you're an official surely the #1 consideration is your integrity and by proxy the integrity of the CFL. If you see an infraction, call it. If you don't, don't. It's not difficult or asking too much. That's integrity, and if an honest mistake is made, own up to it and try to correct it. I can live with that all day long.

What can't be allowed is any kind of favouritism towards or against a team. An official that engages in favouritism demonstrates a loss of personal integrity and by proxy a loss of integrity for the league. It should be addressed by the league very seriously.

Favouritism is not the same as a mistake. It is not a mistake to flag a team for an infraction that didn't occur (phantom call). It is not a mistake to flag a team for an infraction that didn't occur (phantom call) again a few moments later. It is also not a mistake to not flag a team for an infraction that was, or should have been, clearly visible to that official. That is favouritism.

It also doesn't matter what the reason for the favouritism is; personal bias, relatives betting on the game, personal gain such as financial, physical, mental, or emotional reward, etc.

Favouritism is an attempt to use the influence granted by the league to an official for the benefit or detriment of one team over another. Favouritism destroys the integrity of the league.

When favouritism is encountered the league must act swiftly and decisively to eradicate it not by trying to hide it or otherwise cover it up but by being 100% transparent to all members of the league on what exactly occurred, when and where it occurred, how it was addressed, and how the grieving party is to be compensated, if possible.

Officials that lack integrity should never be allowed in our game under any circumstances. It is the one mandatory requirement.

[The Zipp]

I don't believe there is any favoritism going on the CFL - the fact that bomber fans think more calls go against the bombers and the Sask fans think the Bombers are favored tells me likely it is a fan bias / lack of understanding of the rules that is happening not an issue with the refs being biased. 

It is puzzling when something isn't called on the field and there is a ref nearby...however we are getting an advantageous view either on a replay or sitting high up in the stands...refs can be looking at something different and not see the penalty in real time. 

I really have a hard time believing that the CFL or any pro team has crooked referees that have been in their leagues for years. 

The problem is with the fans and them being passionate about their teams. 

[bwiser]

I don't think there is favoritism currently in the CFL but I am not convinced that has always been true. The 1991 season had a lot of strange things that happened that had me questioning the integrity of the league. The Argos were owned by John Candy, Wayne Gretzky and Bruce McNall. The CFL had a salary cap but the league allowed the Argos to sign Rocket Ishmael which put them way over the salary cap. The CFL  then said you could sign a marquis player to a higher deal. The league changed the rules to benefit the Argos and then we saw the referees ignore obvious blocking infractions when Ishmael was returning kicks. I am not saying the fix was in but it sure looked bad.

[Bluehawk]

As a fairly high ranked hockey official many years ago, I have a hard time believing any of the officials in the CFL today are biased or are ignoring calls. It is just not in their make up at that level.  On the other hand, I would certainly say that our current crew of officials across the CFL have taken a step back on their ability and talent.  Perhaps not the older guys, but the newer recruits are just not that good.  A game crew is only as good as their weakest link.
I would challenge the CFL to work hard at their development of game officials.

[J5V]

Did anyone see the handshake between BLM and ZC at the end of the game? I'd love to know what BLM had to say to Zach. They shook, hugged, BLM said something that caused Zach to turn and look sideways, but BLM wouldn't look at Zach and wouldn't make eye contact with him. Zach will probably never tell us but I'll bet it wasn't complimentary.

[DM83]

He said he was setting the stage for Zach's. Record season of throwing less than. Ten TD passes

[TecnoGenius]

I don't see how you can make that inference. Besides, if they are now ignoring slo-mo and freeze frame, why not just say so?

They did admit to ignoring slowmo/freeze!  Well, if you can believe the words coming out of TSN booth guys' mouths.  They outright said in a couple of games it has to be at full speed.  No screwing around with slowmo.

Well, they admitted to not using slowmo for DPI and subjective-type calls.  I am inferring, based on every review I've seen since, that they are also not using slowmo in any of the turnover/TD calls.  I'm not sure what that leaves left that can get the slowmo treatment!  My guess is nothing.

I wish I could give you the official memo from the league, but these are all super super-cereal secret with Frosted Flakes decoder rings.  Us plebes are not worthy to gaze upon the scriptures cast forth from the great Command mountain.

As for "why not just say so"... I dunno, it would ruin their mystique??  Remember, they haven't "just said so" even about the above stuff the booth guys and MOS have admitted to!

Heck, there's an idea, if it's not forbidden by the league, MOS should just read the weekly CFL memos verbatim live on air on every coaches show!!

[TecnoGenius]

You've slightly missed my point. I'm saying if all teams compiled video evidence of them getting hurt by the officials/CC (including the Riders who seem to think Wpg is favored by the officials) I wonder who'd have the most to gripe about. I believe we win hands down. We have a mountain of video evidence and we're only just past the halfway point of the season. I'd love to see it, present it to the league, and ask for an explanation.

I get your point.  Unless someone does the work, it's hard to say.  The problem is we are most in-tune with our team, so we notice the infractions against our team more.  If you go read Riderfans, you'll see that they say exactly what you are saying, but against their team!  I bet it's the same way on every single forum.  They all think the officiating is out to get them.  Everyone can't be right if the options are somewhat mutually exclusive!

To do what you ask, someone would have to go through all the games again and keep track of every bad call or bad non-call, as well as all reviews.  Even Junkie can't help us much on this one because I doubt he keeps a stat for "got away with one" or "DPI weakness factor".  Funny, but maybe I'll start doing that in my tracking for the rest of this year, or next year...

You've pointed out the SSK game and that TOR game, and they are great examples that can help prove your point.  However, outside of those games, the reffing hasn't been tooooo bad for us.  The #22 SSK thing is the only one that massively stands out as a complete rip-off shafting... and the pain of that one may be skewing our impression of the reffing as a whole.  Strangely enough, I haven't seen #22 on field since (and I've been looking), so maybe the league dealt with his throwing that game for us?

I'd be totally supportive if you're the one who wants to rewatch all the games to try to produce an actual "bias stat".  In the end, though, it may really just be 1 bad apple ref having a bad day that cost us one game in an emotional manner; and other teams may be similarly bit until the league fires all of the offending clowns.

[TecnoGenius]

My take on this issue would go something like this ...

And I'm sure basically 100% of fans 100% agree with all of this.  The only problem is when it appears to breakdown, and what the league is going to do about it.

I will add: at least our post-season has been very clean for many seasons.  I'd have to go back many seasons to think of a GC that was decided by chintzy DPI.  Maybe one in the '15 GC @IGF against OTT (vs EDM) that helped them pull off that win?

Whereas in the NFL superbowl... don't get me started.

[TecnoGenius]

As a fairly high ranked hockey official many years ago, I have a hard time believing any of the officials in the CFL today are biased or are ignoring calls.

Except it was admitted as early as (I think) 2017 when that CGY no-end ref was basically fired for rigging the game against us.  They never did give a motive, but I think we learned he was a CGY homer?

On the other hand, I would certainly say that our current crew of officials across the CFL have taken a step back on their ability and talent.  Perhaps not the older guys, but the newer recruits are just not that good.  A game crew is only as good as their weakest link.
I would challenge the CFL to work hard at their development of game officials.

Well, #22 was about as "older guy" as you can get!  Maybe time to give him the gold watch and say "see ya"!  But ya, some of the newest pimple-faced kids refs don't seem ready for prime time yet.

It doesn't help that many of the best/oldest head refs have retired or moved to command: L'il Kim, Firstdown Foxcroft, Bust-A-Move Bradbury... When Proulx finally goes there will be a massive void and I don't think the latest crop are ready to fill it (Commander Data, and the Super Serial guy).

I would make Proulx the ONLY command official when he finally hangs up the cleats.

[TecnoGenius]

Did anyone see the handshake between BLM and ZC at the end of the game? I'd love to know what BLM had to say to Zach. They shook, hugged, BLM said something that caused Zach to turn and look sideways, but BLM wouldn't look at Zach and wouldn't make eye contact with him. Zach will probably never tell us but I'll bet it wasn't complimentary.

I just checked, and I wouldn't read too much into that short scene... BUT, it makes for a great "caption this" setup!!

In my perfect world, Zach said: "we showed you what kind of team you were".     

[TecnoGenius]

The league is just doing knee jerk reactions to criticisms vs a well thought out strategy. At this stage they need to take 3-4 gms sit em in a room with someone like Duane Ford to mediate and fix it

The CFL and its entire rule book seems like nothing but "knee jerk reactions to criticisms".  Seriously, start diving into anything in the book and it's all tacked-on badly worded ambiguous junk, that was only added when something was clearly wrong.  They are loathe to ever gut a section and reword everything, even when it's necessary.

My young son can write better, clearer and more concise than that.

But the worst has got to be all the game-altering weekly memos and command guidelines that we don't even get to read.  We are left to divine their contents from the reading of tea leaves and chicken entrails left by Forde and Farhan.