Demski

[Blueforlife]

He's in his 9th season. If he learned anything it would be that he should have corrected ball security about year 3.

Now his turnovers are not excessive but " he'll learn from it " is a ridiculous comment.  His positive plays are a lot more than any negative plays, but he had to know pursuit was from the rear and an attempt would be made to strip the ball.

Not ridiculous in anyway shape or form.  BLM re learned to how to throw (different mechanics) after he hurt himself bad.  This year his coach took him aside and told him how he needed to adjust his game and he did.  A vet can learn and make adjustments. Happens all the time in sports.  Good athletes evolve.  To suggest that Demski can't learn from this isn't true.  Yes he should have ball security "wrapped up" by now but never too late to learn.  Your opinion is welcome but your tone isn't.  Players learn from film, mistakes and their coaches.  Not rocket science.

[ModAdmin]

Demski is a top 5 receiver in terms of recent yardage

Does he fumble, yes

Is it an issue, no

8/10 his effort is worth it, 2/10 times it costs you

No pain no gain

Harris was same way, you want people to battle

He will learn from this

People are are pointing out that ball security is important.  That fumble was a huge issue in a close game.  Demski probably believed he was running in the clear and perhaps was not protecting the ball as he should have. Fans have every right to be concerned about a fumble that potentially stopped a score from happening.  And after 9 seasons, players are not "learning" about protecting the ball.  It's okay to be a fan but at least try to be objective in your comments.  It's not always "Rah, rah, rah, the Bombers are the best now and forever."

[dd]

People are are pointing out that ball security is important.  That fumble was a huge issue in a close game.  Demski probably believed he was running in the clear and perhaps was not protecting the ball as he should have. Fans have every right to be concerned about a fumble that potentially stopped a score from happening.

Agreed.

It's not that Demski can't learn from this , people are frustrated he hasn t learned from this in the past 8 years so what's going to change?? Likely nothing. Every time he catches a ball in traffic I hold my breath as it is a very real possibility the ball gets knocked loose. Again.

[TecnoGenius]

2 fumbles in 2 games.

That's not the worst part.  The worst is that Demski has had pitiful stats all season, lots of drops (many on bad throws, sure).  If you look at it in terms of production over (in-game) cost, the picture gets horrific.  Kind of like Zach's TD/INT ratio.

If you count a TO in scoring zone as costing us 4 points on average (with our TD rate this season, probably accurate), or the equivalent of 50Y on field (if it was a punting situation), then when set against his ineffectiveness on O, well you have a really bad equation.

But Demski is an elite player, and just like Grant was able to fix his fumble problem, so can Demksi.  We've seen it many times: when a player like a RB has fumble-itis, they go 2-arms on the rock whenever they can be anywhere near defenders.  That's what Demski needs to do.  There are no excuses now: 2-arm protection when he's not wide open.  The coaches can force this: You don't 2-arm, you warm the bench.

I'm not sure what other problems Demski is having this season, causing him to: never be open, get no separation, lack speed.  But I bet he can get back to form when we get our normal WRs back, IF he can start protecting the ball.

[TecnoGenius]

It's always been an issue but it's hard to fault him for the one yesterday. A typical Demski fumble is trying to do too much after the catch with speed and finesse. The one yesterday was a fantastic defensive play and I'm sure he never felt it coming. We don't teach receivers to run with the ball in space with two hands on the ball.

But Demski needs to be aware of the type of game and type of situation.  At the time it was a 1-score game, we were doing well, SSK only had one decent drive, D was keeping us in it, his catch was near the scoring zone... he didn't have to get the home run!!  There's no reason he couldn't go two-arms at the expense of speed/TD.  We were driving, leave it for the team to punch it in if he couldn't get there 2-arming it.

I hate to say it, but if he's lost so much speed since the 2019 WSF chin-up TD YAC scamper that he's getting caught by a big-beast DL or LB, then he needs to abandon that YAC thought in his head from this point forward and protect the darn ball.

[TecnoGenius]

I agree that Demski is worth the occasional mistakes, but he obviously isn't going to suddenly learn his lesson at this point of his career. It's just you glossing over clear problems again.

Sure he can.  This is literally one of the easiest things to coach and enforce.  You basically take it away as an option for him.  2-arm when D around, or you sit.

Let's not forget that a certain Mr. A. Harris would have several fumbles a season, often costly.  He'd usually go beast mode for the rest of the game or next week.  He'd also 2-arm it more.  But AH33 had production, Demski currently doesn't.

[Blueforlife]

People are are pointing out that ball security is important.  That fumble was a huge issue in a close game.  Demski probably believed he was running in the clear and perhaps was not protecting the ball as he should have. Fans have every right to be concerned about a fumble that potentially stopped a score from happening.  And after 9 seasons, players are not "learning" about protecting the ball.  It's okay to be a fan but at least try to be objective in your comments.  It's not always "Rah, rah, rah, the Bombers are the best now and forever."

I never said ball security wasn't important.  I never said it wasn't an issue in that game at that time.  I believe that a player (best ones) can learn his entire career and belief that he can learn from this.  Just because you don't think he can improve ball protection doesn't mean it's true.  My points on this topic are objective and my opinion just like every else's on here should be welcome.  I never stated rah rah rah Bombers are the best and forever (no need for that language here). I am allowed to have an opinion on Demski, which is summarized below.
1. Great player worth the mistakes he makes which are not that common
2. Does fumble on occasion as he fights are every down
3. That play was very unfortunate due to it's impact on the game and timing
4. Any good pro can learn his entire career

You like some other posters are not focusing on the topic of the thread.  No need for the personal dig here.  We don't always see eye to eye and that's ok.  Let's talk ball.

I have been strong supporter of this club pre and during our mini dynasty.  Tides are turning.  I will continue to support good things and criticize the bad.  Been around a long time, sure have seen our ups and downs.  At an inflection point here.

Thanks Techno sounds like we are on the same page about how he can fix this.

Agreed.

It's not that Demski can't learn from this , people are frustrated he hasn t learned from this in the past 8 years so what's going to change?? Likely nothing. Every time he catches a ball in traffic I hold my breath as it is a very real possibility the ball gets knocked loose. Again.

Overstated on the negative.  His stats show he is one of the most productive receivers last 5 years.  He Fumbles yes, but not that often for it to be the concern you are making it out to be imo.

[Blue In BC]

That's not the worst part.  The worst is that Demski has had pitiful stats all season, lots of drops (many on bad throws, sure).  If you look at it in terms of production over (in-game) cost, the picture gets horrific.  Kind of like Zach's TD/INT ratio.

If you count a TO in scoring zone as costing us 4 points on average (with our TD rate this season, probably accurate), or the equivalent of 50Y on field (if it was a punting situation), then when set against his ineffectiveness on O, well you have a really bad equation.

But Demski is an elite player, and just like Grant was able to fix his fumble problem, so can Demksi.  We've seen it many times: when a player like a RB has fumble-itis, they go 2-arms on the rock whenever they can be anywhere near defenders.  That's what Demski needs to do.  There are no excuses now: 2-arm protection when he's not wide open.  The coaches can force this: You don't 2-arm, you warm the bench.

I'm not sure what other problems Demski is having this season, causing him to: never be open, get no separation, lack speed.  But I bet he can get back to form when we get our normal WRs back, IF he can start protecting the ball.

Demski had fumble problems early in his career with the Bombers. It was to the point that some posters wanted him released. IIRC it was his 2nd year as a Bomber where he improved significantly. He's not a fumble machine but has had some problems recently.

He fights for every inch and some defensive players have made great plays to strip the ball.

It's unfortunate but not a particular concern. Receivers drop balls, RB's fumble and QB's throw int's. That's why they practice every week and hold TC.

Demski will fumble again this year. It might be next week or game 18. Rain may be a factor as the season progresses.

I think we can be certain that Demski will reflect on this particular fumble as it took away the potential for OT and even a victory. There are no guarantees but losing the ball was the end.

[Blueforlife]

Demski had fumble problems early in his career with the Bombers. It was to the point that some posters wanted him released. IIRC it was his 2nd year as a Bomber where he improved significantly. He's not a fumble machine but has had some problems recently.

He fights for every inch and some defensive players have made great plays to strip the ball.

It's unfortunate but not a particular concern. Receivers drop balls, RB's fumble and QB's throw int's. That's why they practice every week and hold TC.

Demski will fumble again this year. It might be next week or game 18. Rain may be a factor as the season progresses.

I think we can be certain that Demski will reflect on this particular fumble as it took away the potential for OT and even a victory. There are no guarantees but losing the ball was the end.

Agree with every word.  Great post.

[J5V]

Not ridiculous in anyway shape or form.  BLM re learned to how to throw (different mechanics) after he hurt himself bad.  This year his coach took him aside and told him how he needed to adjust his game and he did.  A vet can learn and make adjustments. Happens all the time in sports.  Good athletes evolve.  To suggest that Demski can't learn from this isn't true.  Yes he should have ball security "wrapped up" by now but never too late to learn.  Your opinion is welcome but your tone isn't.  Players learn from film, mistakes and their coaches.  Not rocket science.

I still maintain that was a horse collar tackle. I think we all know a flag would have been thrown for exactly that had the roles been reversed.

[Blue In BC]

I still maintain that was a horse collar tackle. I think we all know a flag would have been thrown for exactly that had the roles been reversed.

I thought initially it was going to be a horse collar tackle but reconsidered that it wasn't. The left hand went to the front of Demski's left shoulder. The right hand punched the ball forward / down from Demski's hand.

At best I might suggest it could have gone either way even if we had been able to challenge. Although I haven't yet erased the PVR, I can't bring myself to re-watch the game.

It wasn't called but it was not the best reffed game we've seen.

[BomberFan73]

Demski is still a great depth receiver.  Problem is he's our #1 guy right now.
As soon as Lawler is back, I think that fixes alot of our O struggles. 
It'll open other WR for shots, and open the ground game more as teams will have to respect the deep ball.

[Blue In BC]

Demski is still a great depth receiver.  Problem is he's our #1 guy right now.
As soon as Lawler is back, I think that fixes alot of our O struggles. 
It'll open other WR for shots, and open the ground game more as teams will have to respect the deep ball.

Bombers tend to live or die on smash mouth football. That starts with being able to have a strong run game. Teams are taking that away from us while we're in a transition at receiver.

Better run game opens up the receivers and vice versa. At the very least we have to add another import to replace Clercius as the current starter.

If Lawler is ready that solves part of the issue. IMO we need 2 changes at receiver. I'm not knocking Clercius but he's not going to stretch the field.

[BBRT]

Demski is still a great depth receiver.  Problem is he's our #1 guy right now.
As soon as Lawler is back, I think that fixes alot of our O struggles. 
It'll open other WR for shots, and open the ground game more as teams will have to respect the deep ball.

Quick question for you - If and When Lawler gets back how long will he last before he is injured yet again? Need receivers that are not only good but can last the season - and that IMHO is not Lawler. Given what we are paying him the ROI on his is not all that good.

[Blue In BC]

Quick question for you - If and When Lawler gets back how long will he last before he is injured yet again? Need receivers that are not only good but can last the season - and that IMHO is not Lawler. Given what we are paying him the ROI on his is not all that good.

Lean and lanky receivers that make circus catches often get hit when they are most vulnerable. It goes with the territory. Look at how Lawler got injured this time.

Rhymes, Cottoy, Hatcher and others have spent time on 6 game IR. That's just to name a few.

His ROI is not that good, but that's a supply demand issue where teams pay too much for good talent. Schoen is not the lean and lanky type but he's another receiver that takes a hard hit on every play.

It's playing the odds. The more times you are targeted, the more you get hurt. RB's get hit more often but not at as great a velocity most of the time. They are also more upright and the hammer more often than the nail.

By definition receivers are the nail while in the process of the catch.