Ford & Holm Phantom DPI Calls @SSK

gobombersgo · July 21, 2024, 12:10:26 AM

Quote from: bomb squad on July 20, 2024, 07:41:22 PMOverall I think the officiating has been decent this year, but this game was poorly officiated and those were of couple of really bad calls.

Conspiracy? Goes under the category of anything's possible I guess, but hard no on that.

So, Techno, I'm curious. What's your answer to your "tinfoil" questions/suspicions? Do you believe a ref or refs conspired to deliberately cheat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers with phantom (or whatever you want to call them) calls? Yes or No is all I'm asking. If you'd rather not answer, that's cool, no problem.

The officials were prolly upset Oshea threw the meaningless challenge least week just to prove a point.

J5V · July 21, 2024, 12:17:37 AM

Quote from: gobombersgo on July 21, 2024, 12:10:26 AMThe officials were prolly upset Oshea threw the meaningless challenge least week just to prove a point.

O'Shea admitted to being angry at the time he threw that flag. Yes he pointed them out. They needed to be pointed out. They are not bigger than the game. That they'd retaliate in the Sask game points to the problem being even worse than feared. These people need to be reined in big time if this league is to be taken seriously.

bluengold204 · July 21, 2024, 01:35:58 AM

Quote from: TBURGESS on July 20, 2024, 03:09:35 PMBoth calls were terrible. That is all.

You know they were bad if tburgss says so

TecnoGenius · July 21, 2024, 08:04:50 AM

Quote from: Stretch on July 20, 2024, 01:39:52 PMSure, this deserves its own thread, but all you have to say is they were both bad calls.

That just wouldn't be Tecno!

TecnoGenius · July 21, 2024, 08:22:53 AM

Quote from: bomb squad on July 20, 2024, 07:41:22 PMOverall I think the officiating has been decent this year, but this game was poorly officiated and those were of couple of really bad calls.

Yes, refs have been pretty good this season. Maybe one weak call a week. But nothing this insane.

I'm the type of guy that would get worked up if any team got reamed by penalties like this. I want cleanly officiated football. It's the fake no-recourse garbage in the NFL that really turns me off to that league. I've always loved how our league seems to have pretty "honest" refs.

Quote from: bomb squad on July 20, 2024, 07:41:22 PMSo, Techno, I'm curious. What's your answer to your "tinfoil" questions/suspicions? Do you believe a ref or refs conspired to deliberately cheat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers with phantom (or whatever you want to call them) calls? Yes or No is all I'm asking. If you'd rather not answer, that's cool, no problem.

I'll answer anything! One bad call (Ford) gets me worked up, but doesn't mean conspiracy. The second bad call (Holm) got my "rigged" radar (rigdar?) pinging. Then I started noticing things were always happening on that near-side. Then I saw the early flag throw. Then I noticed it was always #22. Then I started studying what Mace & Patterson's faces were doing before and after these plays.

Then MOS says in his post-game that he won't speak to the penalties because he'd "get fined". That's everything we need to know on his feelings (on the flag legitimacy, not anything conspiratorial!).

It doesn't have to be conspiracy or bribery or gambling either (but it could be!), it could just be #22 is from SSK (does anyone know?) and wants to screw us over, just like that no-end ref in CGY (which is irrefutable proof it can happen).

So my answer right now is "I don't know, but I have my suspicions". So what I'm going to do next is go back and check every penalty called against us and check where ref #22 was at the time. If all those rare DH calls, and others, were predominantly #22, then you can probably guess what my answer will become.

The beauty of the situation is that WFC will get the all-24 film for every play and someone there can definitively answer these questions better than I can with the limited TSN coverage. If my hunches are right, this could really blow up for the CFL. I hope someone @WFC is on the case. I'll do what I can to help / get the ball rolling.

TecnoGenius · July 21, 2024, 09:15:30 AM

Quote from: bluengold204 on July 21, 2024, 01:35:58 AMYou know they were bad if tburgss says so

You know it's bad when everyone says so... even all the fans on other team forums! Especially the team we were facing that directly gains from the bad call!

TecnoGenius · July 21, 2024, 09:39:43 AM

Quote from: Waffler on July 20, 2024, 01:36:15 PMMaybe tin hat stuff but I was wondering if he rankled any officials by his challenge last week. The one that was just to make a point. People hate it when you point out their mistakes on national tv. So I ask, retaliation?

Does anyone know where I can find a list of what officials reffed each game? The game-tracker doesn't seem to have it.

Regardless, from me re-checking a few plays in the CGY@WPG game, I don't think #22 was in the game. Would make sense anyhow that Valesi has a different crew from Proulx.

So this would have to be ref X getting miffed and then telling ref Y (#22) to screw us over next week. That seems unlikely. You'd have to be pretty darn mad to bother with that. Unless it's like some clique ref secret society where you piss off one, you piss off all! Possible, but not probable.

Big Daddy · July 21, 2024, 12:05:06 PM

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 21, 2024, 09:39:43 AMDoes anyone know where I can find a list of what officials reffed each game? The game-tracker doesn't seem to have it.

Regardless, from me re-checking a few plays in the CGY@WPG game, I don't think #22 was in the game. Would make sense anyhow that Valesi has a different crew from Proulx.

So this would have to be ref X getting miffed and then telling ref Y (#22) to screw us over next week. That seems unlikely. You'd have to be pretty darn mad to bother with that. Unless it's like some clique ref secret society where you piss off one, you piss off all! Possible, but not probable.

I'm not ready to buy in to conspiracy theories just yet, but this is the least conspiracy sounding part. Really - refs all work together, know each other, and do the same job. If one gets embarrassed by a coach - pretty easy to see how others would hold some ill will against said coach. Even unconsciously having a dislike or axe to grind, it can affect one's judgment.

J5V · July 21, 2024, 02:03:11 PM

I suspect our coach embarrassed the officials last game and he got put in his place this game. The officials have become bigger than the game and that's not good. O'Shea and the WFC have to go to the league about this for the sake of all teams. It's not right and is the kind of cancer that will destroy our league.

Jesse · July 21, 2024, 02:45:15 PM

Quote from: J5V on July 21, 2024, 02:03:11 PMI suspect our coach embarrassed the officials last game and he got put in his place this game. The officials have become bigger than the game and that's not good. O'Shea and the WFC have to go to the league about this for the sake of all teams. It's not right and is the kind of cancer that will destroy our league.

This is one conspiracy theory that I can get behind. It's really just believing in the human element that refs are a close unit and get defensive when people challenge them.

J5V · July 21, 2024, 02:54:25 PM

Quote from: Jesse on July 21, 2024, 02:45:15 PMThis is one conspiracy theory that I can get behind. It's really just believing in the human element that refs are a close unit and get defensive when people challenge them.

For sure and as much as I love the CFL we can't be naive about these things. It's happened in all kinds of professional sports leagues before and will happen again unless the leagues investigate it and disciplines the guilty parties. This isn't the first time Murray Clark has pulled this crap. I can't believe the league allows him to continue to pull these shenanigans.

Throw Long Bannatyne · July 21, 2024, 03:02:03 PM

Quote from: J5V on July 21, 2024, 02:03:11 PMI suspect our coach embarrassed the officials last game and he got put in his place this game. The officials have become bigger than the game and that's not good. O'Shea and the WFC have to go to the league about this for the sake of all teams. It's not right and is the kind of cancer that will destroy our league.

Maybe you're on to something here, can we find evidence Murray Clarke was the official that threw the flag on the Demski catch that was declared incomplete in the previous game? Could be a lot of animosity against O'Shea if the league reprimanded the official for the mistake made in that game.

Don't want to disparage the official if it wasn't Murray Clarke, here is an article on him.

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/11/05/oleary-official-murray-clarke-celebrates-500th-game-hamilton/

theaardvark · July 21, 2024, 05:24:48 PM

Simplest rule, don't do stuff that can be called a penalty. And save your challenge for OBVIOUS issues that are game changing, and never in the first half unless egregious.

I really do think that the phantom calls affected our DB's and made them play off the ball a smidge. Conscious or subconscious, it had to affect them. And that's not right.

DM83 · July 21, 2024, 08:16:48 PM

Not in any way were those two call pass I. I suspect those two refs go back to high school.

TecnoGenius · July 22, 2024, 06:09:56 AM

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 21, 2024, 03:02:03 PMMaybe you're on to something here, can we find evidence Murray Clarke was the official that threw the flag on the Demski catch that was declared incomplete in the previous game? Could be a lot of animosity against O'Shea if the league reprimanded the official for the mistake made in that game.

Check out my earlier posts in the thread. I already put out there I'm nearly positive #22 was not the ref in the CGY game. If someone can find the official ref list for each completed game (I know the info exists), you'll probably see #22 wasn't in that game at all.