Ford & Holm Phantom DPI Calls @SSK

TecnoGenius · July 20, 2024, 07:47:23 AM

This needs its own thread. This is going to cause a lot of chatter throughout the league this week.

The Ford phantom DPI call is at 3Q2:10:

Rider fans forum fully agrees that it was completely bogus. Read the page I link and the next page too. When Riderfans (and one BC fan) are completely in agreement with WPG fans, you know the call was wrong. Us 2 fan bases are the 2 most knowledgeable bases in the CFL (well, add HAM to that as well).

https://www.riderfans.com/forum/forum/main-forum/1137921-gdt-winnipeg-saskatchewan/page39

Other problems with the DPI on Ford:

1. The R didn't have the ball tracked, never saw it until it was over his head.

2. Totally uncatchable thrown too far and untracked, if Ford doesn't touch him the ball is still uncaught.

3. The ref throws his flag before the ball hits the ground! Like half a second before! In fact, once you factor in the thinking time and reaching time, I think he started the process even before the alleged DPI occurred. Watch it in the live shot. The alleged DPI bump happens when the ball is directly over the pair's heads. Doesn't he have to wait until the ball goes past them to determine if it was catchable?

4. Ford was looking back at the same time. He's allowed to lightly bump & stay in the pocket of the R like that and play the ball too. They do it all the time.

5. Ford knows it was fake & bogus. For a minute after the play he has that look of "fake" on his face.

The league has to step in this week. This requires an apology. SSK was off the field at a critical time in the game before this garbage. If it was one bad call, fans let it slide, but 2+ horrific calls, almost certainly from the same ref (I'll check soon) -- it cannot go unpunished.

The ref throwing the flag appears to be #22 Murray Clarke, who has been a ref forever it seems. He was standing in earshot of Mace who was cool as a cucumber moments before the play. Mace was standing next to this ref all night, probably whispering sweet nothings to him like MOS likes to chirp to his side guy.

Now for the tin foil, and think about it: It's 2nd & 2. You probably can't sneak on 3rd after an incompletion. You snap in the gun, clearly not trying to sneak. Who calls a pass here? They do a weak fake to Oullette, and WPG only brings 4. Isn't that when you give it to Oullette? Ya, so they never intended to run, it was a deep pass the whole time. So here's my question: was there an arrangement to throw there knowing #22 would give them a flag. Why else do you throw it 30Y downfield on 2nd & 2? Who doesn't run it there? Oullette wasn't great, but he was getting 1-2Y most carries. They only need 1 to setup the 3rd down sneak.

Even without any tin foil, even if it's just sheer incompetence, this type of officiating cannot be permitted. It ruins the game for everyone. Even SSK fans lose because then WPG can point to the big asterisk when they get the W. Who knows how the close game turns out (with 2 very bad O's) if SSK doesn't get those 2 critical DPIs.

TecnoGenius · July 20, 2024, 08:03:24 AM

Ref #22

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/11/05/oleary-official-murray-clarke-celebrates-500th-game-hamilton/

TecnoGenius · July 20, 2024, 08:36:30 AM

Holm phantom DPI call is 4Q10:57:

This one is actually more plausible than the Ford DPI, because Holm actually does give him a little bump which makes the R move slightly toward the LoS. But it's still extremely weak. Holm in no way impedes the R from his route laterally towards the ball. Holm is allowed to run along the route with the R and maintain his own ground. He's not jamming, he's not impeding: he's in the hip pocket making contact with his body, as all DBs do when they are in good positions.

1. The feet don't intermingle, Holm is not responsible for the R going down after his jump. If anything, it's Holm that ends up down because of the contact.

2. Holm doesn't lay hands on the R at all! Nothing! It's all just body contact.

3. The ball is likely uncatchable, as it would have to be a spectacular one-hander.

4. The flag is very late (according to Suits and all the DBs' reactions, and the crowd cheer timing).

5. In both the Ford & Holm cases the DPI was on 20-30Y passes (mid-deep passes) while SSK is backed up in their own end. This is also (tin foil) suspicious.

6. I confirmed from later plays in the same Q that refs #22 and #83 were working the near-side.

7. You can tell from Patterson's face/eye angle when he celebrates the DPI that he is looking at the flag/ref stationed in the same spot: #22 again. It's the same ref. It appears refs do not change which sideline they patrol when the quarters change.

8. Holm almost never commits DPI. Someone run the stat, I bet he's done maybe 1 DPI in the past 9 games.

(Tin foil) Later I will see if there's any pattern to Patterson preferring to throw to area of ref #22, especially in the 2nd H when all of this happened... I'm really curious now.

TecnoGenius · July 20, 2024, 09:31:03 AM

I want to be clear: if a team were to challenge these phantom DPIs, they would be overturned. Based on everything I've seen command center do in recent seasons, they would not consider either of these DPI. They would not set the precedent that such nothing contact should be considered DPI.

But of course, MOS didn't have his challenge flag anymore...

Waffler · July 20, 2024, 01:36:15 PM

Maybe tin hat stuff but I was wondering if he rankled any officials by his challenge last week. The one that was just to make a point. People hate it when you point out their mistakes on national tv. So I ask, retaliation?

Stretch · July 20, 2024, 01:39:52 PM

Sure, this deserves its own thread, but all you have to say is they were both bad calls.

Stretch · July 20, 2024, 01:43:23 PM

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 20, 2024, 08:03:24 AMRef #22

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/11/05/oleary-official-murray-clarke-celebrates-500th-game-hamilton/

His picture is in the dictionary next to "inept". Quite a few years ago he was a referee but I believe he was demoted.

dd · July 20, 2024, 03:05:00 PM

It sure this needs its own thread but the calls were very bad calls.

I am hoping the league reviews this and admits there are officiating deficiencies and allows command centre to over rule egregiously bad calls as this impacts the integrity of both the game and the league product. At the end of the day, you just want to get it right, and if command centre has to step in and correct things so be it. On plays that involve big chunks of yardage , you got to make sure you're getting things right, and clearly last night,they were far from right.

TBURGESS · July 20, 2024, 03:09:35 PM

Both calls were terrible. That is all.

jdrattops · July 20, 2024, 03:24:56 PM

Didn't see the first half, did O'Shea have a challenge or was it already used? Bad call but not the reason the Bombers lost. Didn't Zac just throw a pick a few plays earlier throwing the ball back towards the centre of the field? Demski fumbles not protecting the ball which is now the 3rd time he has fumbled the ball this season the exact same way. Veteran players who are now past their better days. Bighill looks absolutely awful and slower than molasses, Sasks MLB Thurman runs down Demski and saves a would be TD, Bighill would have been 10 yards behind if it went the other way. The team is old, slow, and weaker than the past 5 years.

ichabod_crane · July 20, 2024, 04:33:17 PM

Bighill should not be covering receivers normally i think anyway. Maybe if running back comes out the backfield. You have your two outside linebackers with more speed to do that job usually.

bomb squad · July 20, 2024, 07:41:22 PM

Overall I think the officiating has been decent this year, but this game was poorly officiated and those were of couple of really bad calls.

Conspiracy? Goes under the category of anything's possible I guess, but hard no on that.

So, Techno, I'm curious. What's your answer to your "tinfoil" questions/suspicions? Do you believe a ref or refs conspired to deliberately cheat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers with phantom (or whatever you want to call them) calls? Yes or No is all I'm asking. If you'd rather not answer, that's cool, no problem.

dd · July 20, 2024, 08:25:24 PM

There's no conspiracy, just coincidence. They're playing in mosaic stadium and the riders get the calls, it's been that way since the turn of time

Sir Blue and Gold · July 20, 2024, 08:45:12 PM

Terrible calls but we scored three field goals.

J5V · July 20, 2024, 11:49:19 PM

Quote from: bomb squad on July 20, 2024, 07:41:22 PMOverall I think the officiating has been decent this year, but this game was poorly officiated and those were of couple of really bad calls.

Conspiracy? Goes under the category of anything's possible I guess, but hard no on that.

So, Techno, I'm curious. What's your answer to your "tinfoil" questions/suspicions? Do you believe a ref or refs conspired to deliberately cheat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers with phantom (or whatever you want to call them) calls? Yes or No is all I'm asking. If you'd rather not answer, that's cool, no problem.

Yes.