Calgary @ Winnipeg

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

If Lucky O is undersized, is running him in a 4-3 any different than running a 3-4?

Just saying, we've been effective in a 3-4 and in a cheetah, although with our DE and oversized LB ranks depleted, not sure Cheetah is much in the plans right now...

He might be playing the role Cole provided last season adding speed to the rush, a role which Cole has not been positioned to provide very often this season.

[Blue In BC]

If Lucky O is undersized, is running him in a 4-3 any different than running a 3-4?

Just saying, we've been effective in a 3-4 and in a cheetah, although with our DE and oversized LB ranks depleted, not sure Cheetah is much in the plans right now...

Yes because he'd playing a little deeper in depth and the 3 man front would have different spacing. As a LB he'd have a better angle to not need to engage the OT and could go inside or outside with speed rather than power.

[Blue In BC]

An interesting quirk of ratio and depth chart for this game.

We're playing an import short so Lucky O could start in theory. On the depth chart he's not, he's the backup. In theory an import or global can't directly replace a Canadian

OTOH, neither an import, import DI or global can replace a starting Canadian.

We're starting 11 Canadians. A Canadian can replace any nationality at any time.

I'll take this to mean we're starting a Canadian in front of an import roster spot, which then allows another import to rotate for the Canadian rotating in for the import.

Hilarious how that works out. I would have thought listing him as a starter would make sense even if that was only for the 1st drive.

That would've made it easier to rotate in other DL without any possible confusion. That said, several of our imports will be non starting, non DI's that can rotate with Canadians as well.

[theaardvark]

If they declare "2 nats on D, 5 nats on O", it doesn't matter where they line up, right? 

As long as there are at least 2 nats on the field on D and 5 on O every play.

Who subs for who is irrelevant, so long as the proper passports are represented.

Having this much ratio flexibility makes it almost impossible to have an invalid squad on the field.

What is the penalty for an invalid squad, and have we seen that called ever?

[Blue In BC]

If they declare "2 nats on D, 5 nats on O", it doesn't matter where they line up, right? 

As long as there are at least 2 nats on the field on D and 5 on O every play.

Who subs for who is irrelevant, so long as the proper passports are represented.

Having this much ratio flexibility makes it almost impossible to have an invalid squad on the field.

What is the penalty for an invalid squad, and have we seen that called ever?

Yes it matters. Normally we start 6 on offence and 1 on defence. You have to declare DI's. At the moment we're starting 7 on offence and 4 on defence. We'll have imports that are not starting but not DI's.

As I said, a DI has to replace an import. The non starting imports will have a different set of conditions and that's where it gets confusing.

I don't remember any team starting 11 Canadians in the past, so how any of this can be bent, I'm not sure.

I don't remember a penalty ever being called and I doubt we'll draw one this week because of all the twists in our roster.

It would be useful to know who our DI's are to further evaluate.

Example: Ford is injured and replaced by Griffith who is not classified as a DI. That's not a problem. If he is classified as a DI it is a problem.

My guess is our DI's are: Castillo, Smith, Mitchell and Ayers.

[Blue In BC]

Here is an example that will never happen but it's the math involved deciding on DI's, no DI's and Canadian starters and the timing of who can do what.

Bombers 2nd offensive series:

1. Streveler goes on the field for Clercius. We can have 2 QB's on the field but he'd normally replace an import.
2. Williams goes on the field for Woli
3. Smith goes on the field for Oliveria

That leaves 3 OL and Demski as the Canadian starters on the field in the 1st series.

Bombers 2nd defensive series:

1. Cole goes on the field for Kramdi
2. Griffith goes on the field for Ford.
3. Adams goes on the field for Hubert


That leaves Thomas as the only Canadian starter on defence and back to back series.  That makes 5 in total.

Obviously the offence and defence are not on the field at the same time. How does having started 11 Canadians in the 1st series on either side relate to what happens in the next series.

This is just hypothetical ratio math trying to show why it's important to know who are the DI's and how many Canadians MUST start on either side of the ball to reach 7.

Based on the possible replacements I'd suggest a 5 and 2 combination as the minimum. That's based on who on the roster would be likely subs on both sides of the ball.

[CrazyCanuck89]

Here is an example that will never happen but it's the math involved deciding on DI's, no DI's and Canadian starters and the timing of who can do what.

Bombers 2nd offensive series:

1. Streveler goes on the field for Clercius. We can have 2 QB's on the field but he'd normally replace an import.
2. Williams goes on the field for Woli
3. Smith goes on the field for Oliveria

That leaves 3 OL and Demski as the Canadian starters on the field in the 1st series.

Bombers 2nd defensive series:

1. Cole goes on the field for Kramdi
2. Griffith goes on the field for Ford.
3. Adams goes on the field for Hubert


That leaves Thomas as the only Canadian starter on defence and back to back series.  That makes 5 in total.

Obviously the offence and defence are not on the field at the same time. How does having started 11 Canadians in the 1st series on either side relate to what happens in the next series.

This is just hypothetical ratio math trying to show why it's important to know who are the DI's and how many Canadians MUST start on either side of the ball to reach 7.

Based on the possible replacements I'd suggest a 5 and 2 combination as the minimum. That's based on who on the roster would be likely subs on both sides of the ball.

Ford is not coming off for Griffth, he is one of your best DBs in coverage.

[TecnoGenius]

Seriously, what other team does Jake Thomas start for in the CFL because I don't see one.

Any team that needs an extra NAT on D.  Fatboi is better than many teams' "hiding the NAT" FSs or LBs.

Would anyone start Fatboi when they didn't need the ratio help and had a Stove on the roster?  No, of course not.  But in the CFL, that isn't always the question, is it.

I'd argue Fatboi is more effective this year than Ted Laurent was last year.  And he was starting.  He's also probably as effective as Laing is the last couple of seasons.

[TecnoGenius]

Why do you hate Thomas?

Ya, show me on the doll where Fatboi touched you!        

[TecnoGenius]

What is the penalty for an invalid squad, and have we seen that called ever?

I think some team got fined or reprimanded (or both) both ratio violation after-the-fact the last year or 2?

I've never seen an on-field flag for ratio violations.  However, in theory there is someone supposed to be paying attention to these things... maybe the same dude who is counting the 23 snaps for DNAs.

Also, the teams are so used to handling ratio properly that I bet it's just second nature.  It probably would require an intent to cheat in order to screw up at this point.

[TecnoGenius]

It would be useful to know who our DI's are to further evaluate.

You're telling me!  Our charts haven't shown the DI designation all season... even though it's required BY RULE.  Posters here keep assuring me there's some hidden and special FOR-CFL-EYES-ONLY chart that supersedes the chart us mere peasants get to see.  They assure me this ultra-secret chart lists the DIs as required BY RULE.

[Stats Junkie]

You're telling me!  Our charts haven't shown the DI designation all season... even though it's required BY RULE.  Posters here keep assuring me there's some hidden and special FOR-CFL-EYES-ONLY chart that supersedes the chart us mere peasants get to see.  They assure me this ultra-secret chart lists the DIs as required BY RULE.

The game sheet lists the roster (and much more) and will include all of the necessary information including, DAs, DNAs, Designated QBs, etc.

Prior to 2023, these sheets were collected by the game supervisor and distributed to the necessary parties. The sheets were required 1 hour prior to kickoff.

As of 2023, the game sheet must be submitted to the league office 24 hours prior to kickoff. Changes (within league approval) can be made up to 30 minutes prior to game time. Everything is now administered electronically.

[TecnoGenius]

As of 2023, the game sheet must be submitted to the league office 24 hours prior to kickoff. Changes (within league approval) can be made up to 30 minutes prior to game time. Everything is now administered electronically.

Ok, thanks!  But my big question, still left unanswered after years of asking is:

Does the public have access to that official game sheet somehow?  (How? or why not?)

[Stats Junkie]

Ok, thanks!  But my big question, still left unanswered after years of asking is:

Does the public have access to that official game sheet somehow?  (How? or why not?)

Does the public have access to internal documents filed at your place of work? Not likely and it's none of their business.

Re: the CFL, the document available to the public is the depth chart.

[TecnoGenius]

Does the public have access to internal documents filed at your place of work? Not likely and it's none of their business.

Re: the CFL, the document available to the public is the depth chart.

But the chart the public gets is missing many key components.  For instance, the WPG charts (such as this week's one I link to below) never list who are the DAs (nee DIs).  And who knows, maybe we also specify DNA/DNS (as also required by rule) in the "hidden" sheet, but clearly we never do on the public chart.

And your comparison to a "normal" place of work is disingenuous.  The CFL is producing a public product, for public consumption, and with major real world monetary consequences for third parties (i.e. the gambling industry) that is directly influenced by the pre-game information teams provide.  It's not like who our DAs are is the formula for Coca Cola Classic.  We're not talking internal memos from HR about what Bomber Store staff should be hired or fired.

If the public chart is a second class citizen, merely to placate the masses, what's to keep teams from just lying, or putting down nonsense?

And what do the other teams get to see?  The official sheet or just the public chart?  If other teams get to see the official sheet, then that makes the comparison to a normal place of work even more absurd... because Coke doesn't share their formula with Pepsi.

A lot of us fans get frustrated that we're left guessing who the DAs are each week.  Other teams publicly announce their DAs on their charts.  Do you think it's an unreasonable ask that us fans should receive the rule-mandated DA/DNA/DNS information, as most teams already provide?

And what's the harm in sharing the simple, rule-mandated information with the public?  You make it sound like it's some closely guarded trade-secret that no one should have any business seeing.  Stepping back for a sec, the whole situation looks rather silly.

https://static.cfl.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2024/07/CALGARY-AT-WINNIPEG_JULY-12.pdf