Guardian cap

[theaardvark]

Keeping in mind that the Guardian Caps are to help prevent CTE, which is a cumulative effect which may or may not ever result in missed games. I don't know how anyone can claim there are a low amount of injuries. I imagine, percentage wise, injuries are at 100% across the league. Many will experience deficits of various types throughout their life.

Not to mention the average life expectancy of a professional football player is somewhere in the 50s.

Yup. Just a ridiculous statement, aards.

My point was that protective equipment is pretty much maxed out, you are not going to get 100% injury free, so making the injuries that happen less is the key.  Advances in equipment and in training/preparation has reduced certain injuries, for sure.  With our game and our rules, I am surprised injuries are as low as they are, say, compared to NFL.

Does that happen with equipment alone?  Nope

Do we need more rule changes to make it safer, more suspensions to bring accountability to players for actions that injure?  That would help.

Do we change the actual game to remove plays that cause injuries?  Not sure if there are stats on which plays cause most injuries, short yardage, deep pocket drops, punt returns... are there rules that can be implemented so that players do not have to make plays that lead to injury. 

Do we increase the penalty for injuring a QB after the ball has left?  Do we give a ref a second type of whistle, or an electronic tone that is set off to signal "balls out", making the QB at that moment untouchable?  Make linemen/rushers cease hostilities once that signal goes off?  Make fines/penalties harsher with those infractions.  Sit out 5 plays for the first offense, ejection for the second, plus 15 yards? 

Not suggesting we go to flag football, but are there some plays where we could implement a way to resolve the play without the actions ending in injury?   

[theaardvark]

As to life expectancy of players being in their 50's, are you including players that played with no helmets at all?  And players that played without concussion spotters, who were given some smelling salts and sent back in?

Rules have changes, equipment has changed, and players that play under these new rules and with this new equipment haven't reached their 50's yet, so I assume that number will continually rise.

Are pro football players expected to live to the full life expectancy of someone who never played a contact sport?  Of course not.  And neither do coal miners, or underwater welders, or any of a myriad of other professions a lot less well compensated for.

Let alone getting paid to play a game you love.

No one is forced to play football, and no one playing football does so without knowing the risks.

[DM83]

Don't put your head in the position to be the primary source of impact.
Revise helmets to increase back of the head contact absorbing padding.
Ban and eject players for a head to head initial point of contact hit.

My rugby pals say they don't lead with their head.
Current football revised tacking " safe tackle" techniques, does not emphasize the head as a weapon.

But let's face it, as a up and coming player from a destitute area of the USA, if a defensive player annihilates the offensive guy, and he's good at it and gets paid, for a few years, would you stop?  No!

Safe tackling though is not a big adjustment. Just do it.

[dd]

If the sport of football was serious about head injuries, there would be an automatic game ejection for head to head contact period. They have taken positive steps to eject those who launch and make head contact (targeting) but look at the hit by brown on Collaros a couple of weeks ago. If the league was serious about head injuries, crown should have been ejected , no questions asked, but still, cheap crap like this continues, with the players complaining afterwards he isn't a dirty player. Sorry bud, you are, and our rules still need changing to protect players from douches like yourself.

[Blue In BC]

The new NFL kick off rule is interesting. I don't like it but most NFL kick offs seem to end in touch backs anyway.

I see the logic in eliminating the high speed collisions to avoid injury but are there any stats to so show this would really work?

Returners get hurt often but so do cover guys. Obviously there are less kicking plays as a % of total plays. Players at every position get injured. Receivers and DB's are dropping in every game from violent full speed collisions.

Many injuries are somewhat self inflicted when players are diving for a ball or extra yardage. Lions receiver Hollins diving for the ball was nearly untouched for example. Should to turf at full speed.

Miami QB Tua T going for that extra yard was a freak injury aside from his concussion history. I wouldn't suggest that was a full speed hit compared to those on kick offs but certainly caused a serious problem.  A Guardian Cap wouldn't have helped in that particular instance.

[Jesse]

The new NFL kick off rule is interesting. I don't like it but most NFL kick offs seem to end in touch backs anyway.

I see the logic in eliminating the high speed collisions to avoid injury but are there any stats to so show this would really work?

Returners get hurt often but so do cover guys. Obviously there are less kicking plays as a % of total plays. Players at every position get injured. Receivers and DB's are dropping in every game from violent full speed collisions.

Many injuries are somewhat self inflicted when players are diving for a ball or extra yardage. Lions receiver Hollins diving for the ball was nearly untouched for example. Should to turf at full speed.

Miami QB Tua T going for that extra yard was a freak injury aside from his concussion history. I wouldn't suggest that was a full speed hit compared to those on kick offs but certainly caused a serious problem.  A Guardian Cap wouldn't have helped in that particular instance.

To your point about stats. there can't be any stats to show it works until they attempt it and then compare data to see if it had any affect. I assume there will be a fairly difference. Whether or not this is any better than simply removing the kick off from the game remains to be seen. I believe there will continue to be changes to it as kick-off in the NFL are pretty close to pointless right now.

As to your references to Hollins and Tua, that just comes off as whataboutism. They are 100% unrelated to return rules.

My dad broke his arm one winter slipping on ice as he went up the stairs to his house, so he started putting rock salt down. Should he stop because some other guy slipped on his stairs during the summer when there was no ice?

[Blue In BC]

To your point about stats. there can't be any stats to show it works until they attempt it and then compare data to see if it had any affect. I assume there will be a fairly difference. Whether or not this is any better than simply removing the kick off from the game remains to be seen. I believe there will continue to be changes to it as kick-off in the NFL are pretty close to pointless right now.

As to your references to Hollins and Tua, that just comes off as whataboutism. They are 100% unrelated to return rules.

My dad broke his arm one winter slipping on ice as he went up the stairs to his house, so he started putting rock salt down. Should he stop because some other guy slipped on his stairs during the summer when there was no ice?

My point is that we see more injuries at low speed than at high speed as on kick offs. Half the injuries that happen we don't even see happen because coverage is elsewhere.

A. Pickett was injured on the 1st few plays of the game today on a short play. He may have even been taken out by one of his teammates. Foot in a walking boot and on crutches afterwards.

I'm not suggesting to not do whatever possible to eliminate injuries. One of the broadcasters last night mentioned that it would be probable that every player on every team is nursing some sort of injury at this point.

[TecnoGenius]

My point is that we see more injuries at low speed than at high speed as on kick offs. Half the injuries that happen we don't even see happen because coverage is elsewhere.

A. Pickett was injured on the 1st few plays of the game today on a short play. He may have even been taken out by one of his teammates. Foot in a walking boot and on crutches afterwards.

Ya, from my memory most of the injuries this season are non-contacts, roll-intos, or jumping/diving.  Pickett was classic achilles.  The incidental/coincidental contact had nothing to do with it.

Yes, there are a few high-speed head-ons, but as a percentage of total injuries I think it's low(er).  Kenny's arm vs D helmet comes to mind as a classic head-on.

Very few injuries from kick plays, so I don't see why anyone would focus on it.

[Blue In BC]

I wonder if we see the CFL trend towards NFL / USFL rules for kick offs and punts. In those leagues there are so many touch backs or fair catches, it almost eliminates run backs from the game.

[TecnoGenius]

I wonder if we see the CFL trend towards NFL / USFL rules for kick offs and punts. In those leagues there are so many touch backs or fair catches, it almost eliminates run backs from the game.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  Besides switching to 4-down, it's the worst change you could possibly make.

[Blue In BC]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  Besides switching to 4-down, it's the worst change you could possibly make.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting or wanting that. I feel punt returns are a bigger problem to potential injury than kick offs, but have no data to support that idea.

In the NFL that's certainly the case when a returner doesn't call for a fair catch. There were a few returners that got smoke this weekend when they didn't call fair catch.

I wonder if there are any NFL stats on how many kick offs are returned and how many punts are actually returned?

[TecnoGenius]

Zach took a big hit vs EDM that put him on his butt and back and his head whipped back and whacked the turf.  He was doing the "seeing stars" thing.  I thought maybe he'd be pulled.  But we had literally no good option if Zach left, so he stayed.

I'm not a fan of the guardian cap idea, but I would 100% be for Zach having some sort of additional head-back protection.  Like something that has straps going around the front, and mega foam padding in the back.  That would mitigate any concussion problems from being thrust back, which is a very common hit for Zach.

Having a few inches of foam on the back shouldn't be very heavy, and it wouldn't impact visibility at all.  The front hits are so varied, and often in the mask/chin, so they are harder to deal with, so I'd start with the low hanging fruit of those head2turf hits.

[Waffler]

Nice article in Free Press.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2024/10/23/little-headway-on-enhanced-safety

I quote some of the Bomber comments here:

Several Bombers acknowledged the benefits of wearing extra padding
when the intensity ratchets up, but none are prepared to commit to
sporting the cap.

Their reasons varied — from its oversized look and the feel when
wearing it — but a reoccurring sentiment was an unwillingness to
make a change after playing their whole life without one.

"For me, it's not even the look of it. The look is whatever ...
it's just how it feels," said running back Brady Oliveira, who
refers to the caps as "marshmallow heads."

"When you get contact, it's like you bounce off, it's too
cushiony. I think the way I run the ball too, right, it's very
physical and you feel that when we wear them in training camp or when
we have pads on, you kind of bounce off and I need to be going
forward, not backwards."

How about in the trenches, where head contact is almost a certainty in
every play?

"I grew up playing football without a Guardian Cap, right? So, I'm
gonna continue playing football without the Guardian Cap," said
defensive end Willie Jefferson.

"I think guys that play football know the risk that comes with
football, know it's a physical game, know it comes with contact.
Like I said, if we can wear them during practice to lessen the blows
during the week... that'll be a plus. But, for me, during the game,
it's a no."

Centre Chris Kolankowski was part of the CFL/CFLPA mentorship program
during the off-season with Eric Neovo, associate vice-president of
health and safety and football operations with the league, and while
he expressed an appreciation for the data that supports wearing the
caps, he believes it's detrimental to his play.

"Personally, when I'm hitting with the Guardian Cap, I feel a
little more," Kolankowski said.

"I think it's because with helmets it's not a direct square hit,
it's glancing blows, so you're kind of deflecting off of each
other. But with the Guardian Cap, those glancing blows don't happen
as much. It kind of sticks to it a little more, probably because of
the shape, the texture and the material.

"That's my personal take on it. Obviously, the CFL is using NFL
research and we know how many resources the NFL is pushing into that.
So that is the data but that's just how I feel about them personally
and I don't like them."

Perhaps the unsaid part of those answers is what the Guardian Cap
could symbolize to the opposition — a player who is fearful.

"It's football," Jefferson said. "You want that contact. You
want that sense of aggression, that sense of power when you're
striking somebody, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

"I can understand if a guy on the offensive side wants to wear a
Guardian Cap to protect himself because sometimes offensive guys get
caught in a vulnerable position, but on the defensive side of the
ball, you always have your head on a swivel, you're looking for that
contact, you want to lay that big hit."

Football helmets have improved in recent years but still appear to
miss the mark. Some now include extra padding to certain areas of the
helmet, depending on a player's position — linemen have extra
padding at the front of their helmet because most of the blunt force
is made with their face-mask area — but Naidu said the data hasn't
yet proved those designs help prevent concussions.

The research still has a long way to go, he added.

"To me, I don't necessarily know if I see a game where everyone is
wearing Guardian Caps out there," Naidu said. "What I do hope is
the Guardian Cap technology and the foams maybe get incorporated into
newer helmet designs in the future."

That's all Kolankowski, and presumably his peers, want to see.

"Just make the helmets better," Kolankowski said. "Stop trying
to add stuff on. Just make the helmet itself better."

[markf]

# 6, Lions wears a guardian cap.

forget his name.



Probably would help to learn if it works, by having it used in actual games. I think it should be required.

hockey players used to have the option of playing without a helmet, ask one of them today to do that. LOL.

not cool looking ? ... too bad.


also..... I don't know anything about concussions but I have read that concussion can accompany a whiplash type injury

"When the head jerks during a collision, whiplash is the primary damage that can occur to your neck and shoulders. However, the brain is also jostled during this movement and it can bump into the hard surface of the skull"

I see this frequently specially receivers going up for a ball. head whipping one way then the other with violence.

[Stretch]

# 6, Lions wears a guardian cap.

forget his name.

TJ Lee

Also noticing a few NFL players wearing them, although that's a larger sample size.