Guardian cap

[Waffler]

It's been allowed to wear all year but I haven't seen one yet. But I see a lot of players wearing the Q-collar which is supposed to keep slightly more blood in your head as cushion. Either one may offer slight or no protection from concussion depending on who you believe.

Since the Q-collar is widespread, just wondering why no one is wearing the guardian?

[BomberFan73]

It's been allowed to wear all year but I haven't seen one yet. But I see a lot of players wearing the Q-collar which is supposed to keep slightly more brain in your head. Either one may offer slight or no protection from concussion depending on who you believe.

Since the Q-collar is widespread, just wondering why no one is wearing the guardian?

Because the Q collar looks kinda cool, but the guardian cap is the opposite of that.

[Jesse]

The guardian cap may reduce impact on a crash test dummy in a lab setting, but can you imagine trying to run and cut and break through a gap in the OL with a big pillow on your head?

[blue_gold_84]

The data on the Guardian Cap as it relates to concussion prevention appears to be inconclusive thus far: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/concussion-experts-encourage-guardian-caps-1.7233481

I don't think we'll see players wear those in actual games any time soon. The Q-Collar seems better suited, IMO.

[theaardvark]

The guardian cap may reduce impact on a crash test dummy in a lab setting, but can you imagine trying to run and cut and break through a gap in the OL with a big pillow on your head?

Pretty sure it isn't like running with a big pillow on your head.

GC's are not manly.  We've heard a number of players say that they play like men and that makes them look like a wus.

Now, guys that have a history of concussion should wear them, and it should be mandated in future contracts as such.

[Jesse]

Pretty sure it isn't like running with a big pillow on your head.

What makes you sure of this?

[Pigskin]

What makes you sure of this?

They only weigh 7 ounces. So, it can't be a weight issue. 

 

[The Zipp]

Because the Q collar looks kinda cool, but the guardian cap is the opposite of that.

Pretty much the answer.  Looking like the great gazoo out there.

[TecnoGenius]

Pretty much the answer.  Looking like the great gazoo out there.

Awesome.  That's exactly it.

Are teams running in-between helmets for this year?  Many players seem to have ones that look a bit bigger from 2023... or is it just me?  And not every player, just certain players.  Do they get a choice?  Is there some new bigger-but-not-ridiculous helmet this year?  (Not sure if I've noticed it on our team, but definitely other teams.)

Edit: found one!  Just look at Dru Brown's helmet in tonight's game!  Holy smokes, it's huge!  So much taller than his head.  So what do you call that helmet?  That didn't exist in the CFL in 2023 AFAIK.

P.S. Lot of good it did Dru...

[Waffler]

I think Brown wears the Schutt F7. By a wide margin most players wear Riddell, as Dru Brown did last year. Maybe he should switch back, it's an excellent question. I attach pic of both helmets.

All helmets are updated regularly, I know the NFL tests them and has a list of allowable models.

[theaardvark]

Awesome.  That's exactly it.

Are teams running in-between helmets for this year?  Many players seem to have ones that look a bit bigger from 2023... or is it just me?  And not every player, just certain players.  Do they get a choice?  Is there some new bigger-but-not-ridiculous helmet this year?  (Not sure if I've noticed it on our team, but definitely other teams.)

Edit: found one!  Just look at Dru Brown's helmet in tonight's game!  Holy smokes, it's huge!  So much taller than his head.  So what do you call that helmet?  That didn't exist in the CFL in 2023 AFAIK.

P.S. Lot of good it did Dru...

Pretty sure, as long as it meets certain safety testing standards, CFL players can wear any brand/model.  Its not like the Gretzky Jofa helmet, they still have to pass testing.  Same with faceguards.

I think the NFL has much more limited standards for which brand/style of helmet you can choose from and a very limited number of faceguard choices.  When the Darth Vader ones came out, they made some changes then, but the CFL seems to allow a wider range of faceguards.

The NFL want to look like a professional, uniform, league.  Here we are a little more cowboy.

[dd]

Awesome.  That's exactly it.

Are teams running in-between helmets for this year?  Many players seem to have ones that look a bit bigger from 2023... or is it just me?  And not every player, just certain players.  Do they get a choice?  Is there some new bigger-but-not-ridiculous helmet this year?  (Not sure if I've noticed it on our team, but definitely other teams.)

Edit: found one!  Just look at Dru Brown's helmet in tonight's game!  Holy smokes, it's huge!  So much taller than his head.  So what do you call that helmet?  That didn't exist in the CFL in 2023 AFAIK.

P.S. Lot of good it did Dru...

Just goes to show you that regardless of how big the helmet is, players still get hurt. You can't fault brown on this, he did everything he could by wearing the helmet that offered the most protection to his head, and still got hurt by a cheap shot

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Awesome.  That's exactly it.

Are teams running in-between helmets for this year?  Many players seem to have ones that look a bit bigger from 2023... or is it just me?  And not every player, just certain players.  Do they get a choice?  Is there some new bigger-but-not-ridiculous helmet this year?  (Not sure if I've noticed it on our team, but definitely other teams.)

Edit: found one!  Just look at Dru Brown's helmet in tonight's game!  Holy smokes, it's huge!  So much taller than his head.  So what do you call that helmet?  That didn't exist in the CFL in 2023 AFAIK.

P.S. Lot of good it did Dru...

Always thought Collaros wore a huge helmet, already reminded me of the Great Gazoo!

[theaardvark]

1: Had Brown been wearing a GC, would he have been injured?

2: Had Brown had his helmet properly secured so it could protect him, would he have been injured?

Answer to one is probably, the answer to 2 is maybe not.

Helmets, like seatbelts, can only protect you if used properly.  Brown's helmet coming off the way it did screams that it wasn't being used properly.

[DM83]

Get rid of those  stupid things. Players have some responsibility to putting themselves in a prone or unprotected position.  If you make your head available to get slammed into, then try a different strategy.

The rule should be amended to emphasize the vulnerable QB.  They should not be collisioned,  they should be "@
Wrapped up and laid sown
When a QB leaves the pocket, he then becomes a runner and subject to all types of tackles.

[Waffler]

Size is not all. The internal cushion matters too. They have started to manufacture position specific helmets now, the QB one has specific padding meant to protect one's head from a bounce on the turf which they have determined is the most common cause of QB concussion. So far there are 3 helmets approved just for QB's and Dru is not wearing one. Riddell makes 2 and Vicis the other. That said I am not sure if anyone in the CFL is wearing a position specific helmet as they are relatively new.

[theaardvark]

Size is not all. The internal cushion matters too. They have started to manufacture position specific helmets now, the QB one has specific padding meant to protect one's head from a bounce on the turf which they have determined is the most common cause of QB concussion. So far there are 3 helmets approved just for QB's and Dru is not wearing one. Riddell makes 2 and Vicis the other. That said I am not sure if anyone in the CFL is wearing a position specific helmet as they are relatively new.

Dru's injury, from what I saw, would not have been lessened bu a QB specific helmet.  The hit was from the side, and he did not have his lid on securely, so it came off, possibly doing neck/concussive damage as well. 

Yes, lids with bigger padding in the back for head to turf collisions would be a fantastic idea for all QB's.  Maybe even a HANS type collar is they could do it without limiting vision.  Or that big widget like Neufeld wears.

[Waffler]

https://theconversation.com/new-nfl-helmet-accessory-reduces-concussions-but-players-and-fans-may-not-be-ready-to-embrace-safety-over-swag-236928

"In a multibillion-dollar sport in which the helmet is the preeminent branding space and symbol of the game, what happens when the imperative of player safety conflicts with its visual appeal?

We're about to find out."

Interesting read. I am curious to see what happens in the NFL,  probably the same as CFL though. One person wearing it so far as I know.

[Jesse]

https://theconversation.com/new-nfl-helmet-accessory-reduces-concussions-but-players-and-fans-may-not-be-ready-to-embrace-safety-over-swag-236928

"In a multibillion-dollar sport in which the helmet is the preeminent branding space and symbol of the game, what happens when the imperative of player safety conflicts with its visual appeal?

We're about to find out."

Interesting read. I am curious to see what happens in the NFL,  probably the same as CFL though. One person wearing it so far as I know.

I'm not sure why the caps aren't in team colours with the logo included.

[DM83]

lol. The great gazoo! Why don't we issue the Michelin man padding. Or have the. Linemen who never get concussed a sumo wrestling suit.

[TBURGESS]

This is what they remind me of...

[theaardvark]

https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2011/10/news-kelso-s-helmet/



No idea why a Guardian Cap can't be like this...

[Waffler]

Since we are posting pics, my first thought of it was this.

[TecnoGenius]

lol. The great gazoo! Why don't we issue the Michelin man padding. Or have the. Linemen who never get concussed a sumo wrestling suit.

Every player can play the whole game in the ad-break hamster balls.  There will be lots of nausea, but at least no one will get injured!

It'll be tricky to throw the ball into the one little hole though.

[J5V]

Marino, Brown, et al go after whatever they can, heads, knees, ankles, etc. The temptation to injure and thus remove a player that is killing your team must be tremendous. Let's not be naive. Teams have had bounties on star players in the past and no doubt do today. Whatever a guy like Brown gets fined for taking out a QB will pale on what the bounty may pay him. The answer to protecting our star players lies in the hands of the players association IMO. If they will do nothing, how can any other part of the CFL be held accountable? What ever happened to brotherhood?

[TecnoGenius]

The answer to protecting our star players lies in the hands of the players association IMO. If they will do nothing, how can any other part of the CFL be held accountable? What ever happened to brotherhood?

But QBs only hold around 1/24th of the seats at the big PA table...  And D's hold 1/2.  I wonder who wins those "protect the QB" votes, eh?

[J5V]

But QBs only hold around 1/24th of the seats at the big PA table...  And D's hold 1/2.  I wonder who wins those "protect the QB" votes, eh?

As you've said before, the issue extends beyond QBs. Receivers, for example, also need protection from predatory D players. You can't be successful as an organization if one part is harming the other. All professional leagues have come to this realization.

[theaardvark]

There are not a whole lots of injuries, percentage wise, of players in the league.  The protective equipment is quite effective, considering the wear and tear that players are subjected to. 

Can we come up with devices that better protect players? 

Helmets already reduce head injuries an incredible amount, can they get that number to zero?

Braces reduce strain on joints to prevent re-injury, are there devices that can be used to prevent injury in the first place?  Devices that stop knees from bending past their natural range of motion, or ankles from rolling... 

I'm sure there could be an exoskeleton that protects a player from any injury, but any device that protects also limits mobility.  Guardian Caps do have an effect on a players movements, and make them a slightly larger target.  For some players, that extra protection is worth it.  For most, they think it makes them look weak. 

In the end, for most of this, testosterone rules.  Cups, knee pads, thigh pads, flak vests, guardian caps.  Not sure what the league rules are about protective equipment, can LB's still wear the Osh mega shoulders?  Would they?

[Jesse]

There are not a whole lots of injuries, percentage wise, of players in the league.  The protective equipment is quite effective, considering the wear and tear that players are subjected to. 

Can we come up with devices that better protect players? 

Helmets already reduce head injuries an incredible amount, can they get that number to zero?

Braces reduce strain on joints to prevent re-injury, are there devices that can be used to prevent injury in the first place?  Devices that stop knees from bending past their natural range of motion, or ankles from rolling... 

I'm sure there could be an exoskeleton that protects a player from any injury, but any device that protects also limits mobility.  Guardian Caps do have an effect on a players movements, and make them a slightly larger target.  For some players, that extra protection is worth it.  For most, they think it makes them look weak. 

In the end, for most of this, testosterone rules.  Cups, knee pads, thigh pads, flak vests, guardian caps.  Not sure what the league rules are about protective equipment, can LB's still wear the Osh mega shoulders?  Would they?

Keeping in mind that the Guardian Caps are to help prevent CTE, which is a cumulative effect which may or may not ever result in missed games. I don't know how anyone can claim there are a low amount of injuries. I imagine, percentage wise, injuries are at 100% across the league. Many will experience deficits of various types throughout their life.

Not to mention the average life expectancy of a professional football player is somewhere in the 50s.

Yup. Just a ridiculous statement, aards.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Keeping in mind that the Guardian Caps are to help prevent CTE, which is a cumulative effect which may or may not ever result in missed games. I don't know how anyone can claim there are a low amount of injuries. I imagine, percentage wise, injuries are at 100% across the league. Many will experience deficits of various types throughout their life.

Not to mention the average life expectancy of a professional football player is somewhere in the 50s.

Yup. Just a ridiculous statement, aards.

That's shocking, a phenomenon of that magnitude is usually investigated or hushed up by special interests.

[theaardvark]

Keeping in mind that the Guardian Caps are to help prevent CTE, which is a cumulative effect which may or may not ever result in missed games. I don't know how anyone can claim there are a low amount of injuries. I imagine, percentage wise, injuries are at 100% across the league. Many will experience deficits of various types throughout their life.

Not to mention the average life expectancy of a professional football player is somewhere in the 50s.

Yup. Just a ridiculous statement, aards.

My point was that protective equipment is pretty much maxed out, you are not going to get 100% injury free, so making the injuries that happen less is the key.  Advances in equipment and in training/preparation has reduced certain injuries, for sure.  With our game and our rules, I am surprised injuries are as low as they are, say, compared to NFL.

Does that happen with equipment alone?  Nope

Do we need more rule changes to make it safer, more suspensions to bring accountability to players for actions that injure?  That would help.

Do we change the actual game to remove plays that cause injuries?  Not sure if there are stats on which plays cause most injuries, short yardage, deep pocket drops, punt returns... are there rules that can be implemented so that players do not have to make plays that lead to injury. 

Do we increase the penalty for injuring a QB after the ball has left?  Do we give a ref a second type of whistle, or an electronic tone that is set off to signal "balls out", making the QB at that moment untouchable?  Make linemen/rushers cease hostilities once that signal goes off?  Make fines/penalties harsher with those infractions.  Sit out 5 plays for the first offense, ejection for the second, plus 15 yards? 

Not suggesting we go to flag football, but are there some plays where we could implement a way to resolve the play without the actions ending in injury?   

[theaardvark]

As to life expectancy of players being in their 50's, are you including players that played with no helmets at all?  And players that played without concussion spotters, who were given some smelling salts and sent back in?

Rules have changes, equipment has changed, and players that play under these new rules and with this new equipment haven't reached their 50's yet, so I assume that number will continually rise.

Are pro football players expected to live to the full life expectancy of someone who never played a contact sport?  Of course not.  And neither do coal miners, or underwater welders, or any of a myriad of other professions a lot less well compensated for.

Let alone getting paid to play a game you love.

No one is forced to play football, and no one playing football does so without knowing the risks.

[DM83]

Don't put your head in the position to be the primary source of impact.
Revise helmets to increase back of the head contact absorbing padding.
Ban and eject players for a head to head initial point of contact hit.

My rugby pals say they don't lead with their head.
Current football revised tacking " safe tackle" techniques, does not emphasize the head as a weapon.

But let's face it, as a up and coming player from a destitute area of the USA, if a defensive player annihilates the offensive guy, and he's good at it and gets paid, for a few years, would you stop?  No!

Safe tackling though is not a big adjustment. Just do it.

[dd]

If the sport of football was serious about head injuries, there would be an automatic game ejection for head to head contact period. They have taken positive steps to eject those who launch and make head contact (targeting) but look at the hit by brown on Collaros a couple of weeks ago. If the league was serious about head injuries, crown should have been ejected , no questions asked, but still, cheap crap like this continues, with the players complaining afterwards he isn't a dirty player. Sorry bud, you are, and our rules still need changing to protect players from douches like yourself.

[Blue In BC]

The new NFL kick off rule is interesting. I don't like it but most NFL kick offs seem to end in touch backs anyway.

I see the logic in eliminating the high speed collisions to avoid injury but are there any stats to so show this would really work?

Returners get hurt often but so do cover guys. Obviously there are less kicking plays as a % of total plays. Players at every position get injured. Receivers and DB's are dropping in every game from violent full speed collisions.

Many injuries are somewhat self inflicted when players are diving for a ball or extra yardage. Lions receiver Hollins diving for the ball was nearly untouched for example. Should to turf at full speed.

Miami QB Tua T going for that extra yard was a freak injury aside from his concussion history. I wouldn't suggest that was a full speed hit compared to those on kick offs but certainly caused a serious problem.  A Guardian Cap wouldn't have helped in that particular instance.

[Jesse]

The new NFL kick off rule is interesting. I don't like it but most NFL kick offs seem to end in touch backs anyway.

I see the logic in eliminating the high speed collisions to avoid injury but are there any stats to so show this would really work?

Returners get hurt often but so do cover guys. Obviously there are less kicking plays as a % of total plays. Players at every position get injured. Receivers and DB's are dropping in every game from violent full speed collisions.

Many injuries are somewhat self inflicted when players are diving for a ball or extra yardage. Lions receiver Hollins diving for the ball was nearly untouched for example. Should to turf at full speed.

Miami QB Tua T going for that extra yard was a freak injury aside from his concussion history. I wouldn't suggest that was a full speed hit compared to those on kick offs but certainly caused a serious problem.  A Guardian Cap wouldn't have helped in that particular instance.

To your point about stats. there can't be any stats to show it works until they attempt it and then compare data to see if it had any affect. I assume there will be a fairly difference. Whether or not this is any better than simply removing the kick off from the game remains to be seen. I believe there will continue to be changes to it as kick-off in the NFL are pretty close to pointless right now.

As to your references to Hollins and Tua, that just comes off as whataboutism. They are 100% unrelated to return rules.

My dad broke his arm one winter slipping on ice as he went up the stairs to his house, so he started putting rock salt down. Should he stop because some other guy slipped on his stairs during the summer when there was no ice?

[Blue In BC]

To your point about stats. there can't be any stats to show it works until they attempt it and then compare data to see if it had any affect. I assume there will be a fairly difference. Whether or not this is any better than simply removing the kick off from the game remains to be seen. I believe there will continue to be changes to it as kick-off in the NFL are pretty close to pointless right now.

As to your references to Hollins and Tua, that just comes off as whataboutism. They are 100% unrelated to return rules.

My dad broke his arm one winter slipping on ice as he went up the stairs to his house, so he started putting rock salt down. Should he stop because some other guy slipped on his stairs during the summer when there was no ice?

My point is that we see more injuries at low speed than at high speed as on kick offs. Half the injuries that happen we don't even see happen because coverage is elsewhere.

A. Pickett was injured on the 1st few plays of the game today on a short play. He may have even been taken out by one of his teammates. Foot in a walking boot and on crutches afterwards.

I'm not suggesting to not do whatever possible to eliminate injuries. One of the broadcasters last night mentioned that it would be probable that every player on every team is nursing some sort of injury at this point.

[TecnoGenius]

My point is that we see more injuries at low speed than at high speed as on kick offs. Half the injuries that happen we don't even see happen because coverage is elsewhere.

A. Pickett was injured on the 1st few plays of the game today on a short play. He may have even been taken out by one of his teammates. Foot in a walking boot and on crutches afterwards.

Ya, from my memory most of the injuries this season are non-contacts, roll-intos, or jumping/diving.  Pickett was classic achilles.  The incidental/coincidental contact had nothing to do with it.

Yes, there are a few high-speed head-ons, but as a percentage of total injuries I think it's low(er).  Kenny's arm vs D helmet comes to mind as a classic head-on.

Very few injuries from kick plays, so I don't see why anyone would focus on it.

[Blue In BC]

I wonder if we see the CFL trend towards NFL / USFL rules for kick offs and punts. In those leagues there are so many touch backs or fair catches, it almost eliminates run backs from the game.

[TecnoGenius]

I wonder if we see the CFL trend towards NFL / USFL rules for kick offs and punts. In those leagues there are so many touch backs or fair catches, it almost eliminates run backs from the game.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  Besides switching to 4-down, it's the worst change you could possibly make.

[Blue In BC]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  Besides switching to 4-down, it's the worst change you could possibly make.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting or wanting that. I feel punt returns are a bigger problem to potential injury than kick offs, but have no data to support that idea.

In the NFL that's certainly the case when a returner doesn't call for a fair catch. There were a few returners that got smoke this weekend when they didn't call fair catch.

I wonder if there are any NFL stats on how many kick offs are returned and how many punts are actually returned?

[TecnoGenius]

Zach took a big hit vs EDM that put him on his butt and back and his head whipped back and whacked the turf.  He was doing the "seeing stars" thing.  I thought maybe he'd be pulled.  But we had literally no good option if Zach left, so he stayed.

I'm not a fan of the guardian cap idea, but I would 100% be for Zach having some sort of additional head-back protection.  Like something that has straps going around the front, and mega foam padding in the back.  That would mitigate any concussion problems from being thrust back, which is a very common hit for Zach.

Having a few inches of foam on the back shouldn't be very heavy, and it wouldn't impact visibility at all.  The front hits are so varied, and often in the mask/chin, so they are harder to deal with, so I'd start with the low hanging fruit of those head2turf hits.