Official Game Day Thread - Ottawa at Winnipeg, July 5, 2024

[theaardvark]

I watched the Kramdi hit live, and then a bunch of times when i got home. 

I can't see there being even a hint of "intent to injure" or "targeting, forcible contact to the head by forearm".

Dru wears his helmet loose, Kramdi was going in for the hit, and pulled up when he slid.  He did contact Dru and the lid popped off, but it did not seem to me that he was going for the head, targeting or doing anything intentional.  Now, in the NHL, if your stick hits a guy in the head, you go to the box, whether you intended it to or not.  You have to be in control of your stick.  Likewise, a tackler has to ensure he doesn't hit an opponents head, accidentally or on purpose.

Yes, it was a penalty.  Yes, it will result in a fine.  But no, it was no where near as bad as the hit on Streveler, spearing with the helmet and forcing the victims head to the turf.  That should have been an ejection and should carry max fine, even though Streveler was not hurt, and Dru was.

Its the infraction that is judged, not the result.

[Jesse]

Kramdi was bang bang, no helmet to helmet, just an unfortunate circumstance of angles and how his head moved with the hit.  Not sure that the elbow was chicken winged out to make the hit, or as part of his slide to protect himself un falling. 

The Streveler spear was leading with the helmet, and the helmet to helmet contact led to a helmet to turf contact.  I won't say that it was a retribution for the Brown hit, but it sure looked like it was retribution for the Brown hit.  Just seems like Streveler has a different brain set up.

The hits were nearly identical and deserved the same penalty. You can't possible excuse our player saying it was unintentional and the other team's was intentional. That's some nonsense.

[dd]

Exactly, in both plays the offending player went out of his way to make contact with the head, that's a foul, there's no denying or defending it, the tape shows what it shows

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I watched the Kramdi hit live, and then a bunch of times when i got home. 

I can't see there being even a hint of "intent to injure" or "targeting, forcible contact to the head by forearm".

Dru wears his helmet loose, Kramdi was going in for the hit, and pulled up when he slid.  He did contact Dru and the lid popped off, but it did not seem to me that he was going for the head, targeting or doing anything intentional.  Now, in the NHL, if your stick hits a guy in the head, you go to the box, whether you intended it to or not.  You have to be in control of your stick.  Likewise, a tackler has to ensure he doesn't hit an opponents head, accidentally or on purpose.

Yes, it was a penalty.  Yes, it will result in a fine.  But no, it was no where near as bad as the hit on Streveler, spearing with the helmet and forcing the victims head to the turf.  That should have been an ejection and should carry max fine, even though Streveler was not hurt, and Dru was.

Its the infraction that is judged, not the result.

If you watch it several more times today you can almost see Kramdi levitate over Brown and then Brown jumping up and targeting Kramdi's arm with his helmet/neck. If anything, Brown was the reckless one and Kramdi is lucky to avoid a season ending arm injury. Right?

It was a brutal tackle. It happens. No need for mental gymnastics.

[dd]

Yes, he should have also got a delay of game penalty for laying on the field faking a head injury. Some guys will do anything to draw a penalty!!

[TecnoGenius]

By now I thought it was a well established practice to slide early or do not slide at all. Once you slide you've given up the ability to protect yourself. A penalty after the fact is never going to be good enough. We've seen this umpteen times.

Yes, the slide was late by the normal precedent set.  Remember the guy taking Zach's head off in 2019 or 2021?  Zach slid even sooner and they let that guy take his head off.  That was the first big Zach head hit and we all thought for sure at that moment he was going to be out another year with concussion, but he bounced right up.

They never called that hit.  Command didn't upgrade that hit.  No penalty was ever issued.  I don't recall if any fine was doled out.

AFAIK they have not changed the rulebook or sliding standards since then.

If Dru wants full protection there, he needs to slide sooner than when Kramdi is 2 yards away laterally.  There is a limit to how quickly Kramdi's brain & body can react to the change from runner to slider.  Once Kramdi leans into the tackle/hit, he is committed.

[TecnoGenius]

Strev's front foot doesn't come down before the ball is out. It's legal since his only contact with the field is the back one, which is behind the line of scrimmage. What happens in the air means nothing.

One of these threads someone posted the actual rule in question.  One foot has to be behind LoS, that's it.

Whether the QB jumps or has 1 foot down or 2 feet down is completely irrelevant.  They can be (and often are) fully in the air when they release the ball, and that's perfectly fine.  They do the little jump on purpose to get that trailing foot as far back as possible.

Too many people are getting confused with the old (pre-2019?) rule, and also conflating with sideline catch toe-tap rules, which aren't relevant here.

[TecnoGenius]

I think Strev was over the LOS twice, but he certainly wasn't 2 yards over. The angle that Tech No shows isn't very good for figuring out where the foot is. You'd have to rotate the view to make it along the line to be able to see it properly.

Hey, my pic is great!      If you watch it live, or if I showed the previous frame, you'd see his back foot had just left the ground and was maybe 1-2 inches up.  The front is off the ground, too.

You can fix the "angles" problem by just drawing a line straight down from the toe or heel to the ground and comparing with the white yard-marker line.  The toe is basically right above the leading edge of the white line.  The heel is well back.  The ball snapped midway along that line.  So he's behind the LoS.

Collaros looked pissed on the sidelines. Caught on camera walking away from MOS in the second half.

Didn't see that!  Will check (have a specific clock time to focus on?).  Lots of reasons he may have been miffed, though.  Strev showing him up by winning the game! LOL, how dare he!  Like Nichols sitting on the sidelines in the last game of 2019 reg season...? (Kidding, I'm sure that wasn't it)

[TecnoGenius]

I won't say that it was a retribution for the Brown hit, but it sure looked like it was retribution for the Brown hit.  Just seems like Streveler has a different brain set up.

I think it was 100% retribution, and fully agree with Doug Brown on the post-game show.  And Doug Brown knows because I bet he dealt out a bunch of revenge on-field in his day... he knows what those pro-hitters are thinking after their QB is taken out.

[TecnoGenius]

Look in the rule book, under targeting, forcible contact to the head by forearm is a 25 yd penalty and game misconduct penalty.

There is no instance of the word "targeting" in the 2024 rulebook.  I also see no mention of the word forearm in the relevant sections.  In fact, I can't find anything related to anything other than helmet contact.  If someone can find otherwise, let me know.

So if the Kramdi hit is a penalty, it has to be a general, nonspecific "RTP" or "UR" call... which is what the refs did: RTP.

[TecnoGenius]

Yes, he should have also got a delay of game penalty for laying on the field faking a head injury. Some guys will do anything to draw a penalty!!

Yuk yuk.  You jest, but I have seen QBs do the ol' writhe & flail & embellish and ham it up routine.  No, Dru didn't do this.  Yes, Dru was genuinely injured.  But don't pretend QBs never ham it up (cough cough Cody).

Think Jerry McGuire.

If you're a QB and you take a hit that seems like it might "look big", why not writhe?

If you writhe you gain all of the following:
a) more likely to get a nice juicy 15Y flag to bail you out;
b) D thinks you are wounded/weakened and unlikely to run

And the only cost is either 1) nothing if you writhe only for a short time and tell the refs you're ok, or 2) sitting out 3 plays, and it may have been 2nd down and a failed 2nd down conversion anyhow (i.e. also equals nothing).

Cody used to really like to do (b) in SSK.  He'd act all beaten up then go for a big run on the next snap or two.  Always looked perfectly fine on the sidelines when he thought no one was looking anymore.  (To be fair, I have not seen Cody writhe much in MTL.  So his writhing may have been at the request of the semi-corrupt SSK braintrust.)

[Blue In BC]

I don't think Brown was faking his injury. It forced him out of the game and that would be the last thing any player wants.

They were testing his head and neck movement and there may have been some caution regarding any concussion issue.

I hope he's ok. Not just because he's an ex Bomber but he seems to be a popular player with his team mates.

The CFL needs up and coming players like him.

[theaardvark]

The hits were nearly identical and deserved the same penalty. You can't possible excuse our player saying it was unintentional and the other team's was intentional. That's some nonsense.

Nearly identical?  They couldn't possibly be more different.

Kramdi was a hit coming at 90 degrees to the direction the QB was sliding in, and he went across the path, stiking the head so that it twisted the neck and removed the helmet.  Kramdi was in the process of lining up the tackle when the QB slid, and his motion was an extension of that..  he should have pulled up or diverted, but made contact with the head unnecessarily.

Harris speared an immobilized QB head on.  Helmet first.  Vulnerable target, he lowered his helemt and drove into Streveler, striking his head.

Completely different plays.

Kramdi should have avoided contact with a QB in a slide.  Harris should never have launched into a QB whose forward motion was halted and was unable to defend himself.

Both are penalies, both are fines, for sure.  But other than that, no similarity.  Plus, Kramdi's was bang bang and unintentional, wherear it sure looks like Harris was intentional head hunting retribution for Kramdi's hit.

[The Zipp]

For the video watchers...in the first half when we are driving and it's second and short, Strev is going to throw it...from the stands I thought he had demski open for a TD...seems like Zach thought the same thing, waaay in the background on the sidelines he throws up the TD signal then Strev doesn't throw and he touches the top of his head. 

Go find it Techo - if you can.

[TecnoGenius]

Go find it Techo - if you can.

Sure!  2Q6:01  Zach is the guy in the black tee with the white W to the left of Strev.  Sorry for the blurriness.

We get no replay or view of Demski or all-24 on this one, so we only have our memories at the game.  I thought Demski was decently covered, but he may have had a couple of yards on his guy, meaning if Strev could chuck a 50Y ball and hit him in stride he might have had it... that's a big if since we know Strev isn't Zach.

I do like the idea of Buck letting Strev take the free play on 2nd & 1.  We haven't done that all season.  Heck, I don't think we did that all last season either!

Ya, so when Strev doesn't take the shot Zach does the awkward "ah I was just stretching" hands clasped behind the head thing.