The Non-Dribbled Non-OSK "Kick From Scrimmage" Again

Started by TecnoGenius, June 29, 2024, 08:38:54 AM

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BomberFan73

Pretty sure we tried it late when we were 2nd & 20, we sent 3 guys deep & Strev threw out to Brady, but ofcourse CGY knew we would go to Brady and not throw deep and he had 2 guys on him right away. But you could see Brady think about it.

markf

This play being legal, is absurd.

You have highly skilled athletes  beating the daylights out of each other to gain yards, make first downs etc.

But you allow this nonsensical, low skill, boring play to be legal.

And they want Americans to watch the CFL.

Makes the league look foolish.

Blue In BC

The NFL has an onside punt rule as well. In theory this odd 1 yard kick would work there as well. I don't remember anyone trying this but in a similar situation why wouldn't they?
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Sir Blue and Gold

It's a stupid rule that should be changed. It's not "Canadian". No one has ever indentified with the CFL game and a one yard dribble kick.

The punter is not onside in the NFL, so no, it wouldn't work.

Jesse

Oh, you're all a bunch of old sticks in the mud.
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Blue In BC

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 01, 2024, 06:29:20 PMIt's a stupid rule that should be changed. It's not "Canadian". No one has ever indentified with the CFL game and a one yard dribble kick.

The punter is not onside in the NFL, so no, it wouldn't work.

Yes he is and yes it would in theory.

A player of the kicking team (at any kick, not just a free kick) who is "onside" may recover the ball and retain possession for his team. This includes the kicker himself and anyone else behind the ball at the time it was kicked, other than the holder for a place kick.
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TecnoGenius

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 01, 2024, 09:11:17 PMA player of the kicking team (at any kick, not just a free kick) who is "onside" may recover the ball and retain possession for his team. This includes the kicker himself and anyone else behind the ball at the time it was kicked, other than the holder for a place kick.

The other week the CFL had that OSK where the kicker ran past the ball and then did some weird twist-leg-behind kick.  I wondered at the time how that was legal because he was clearly in front of the ball before touching it.  Wouldn't that kicker be offside?

The only way he wouldn't be offside is if there was a special rule that says the kicker can never be offside.

P.S. It was a great kick and intriguing kick motion.
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Big Daddy

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 01, 2024, 09:44:30 PMThe other week the CFL had that OSK where the kicker ran past the ball and then did some weird twist-leg-behind kick.  I wondered at the time how that was legal because he was clearly in front of the ball before touching it.  Wouldn't that kicker be offside?

The only way he wouldn't be offside is if there was a special rule that says the kicker can never be offside.

P.S. It was a great kick and intriguing kick motion.

I remember that kick, it was the first time I'd ever seen that.  Looked like a soccer fancy move to be honest. 

Was anything ever determined about it - kicker being offside?  I didn't even think of that angle, but a good question for sure.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Big Daddy on July 01, 2024, 10:01:28 PMWas anything ever determined about it - kicker being offside?  I didn't even think of that angle, but a good question for sure.

No one ever said boo... until I brought it up just now.  There must be a special exception for kickers somehow because even on a normal KO the K is slightly in advance of the ball: front foot plants ahead, back foot comes through from behind.  Too lazy at the mo to check the rulebook...
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Big Daddy

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 01, 2024, 10:10:43 PMNo one ever said boo... until I brought it up just now.  There must be a special exception for kickers somehow because even on a normal KO the K is slightly in advance of the ball: front foot plants ahead, back foot comes through from behind.  Too lazy at the mo to check the rulebook...

Makes sense.  I really suspect no one has ever even thought about it to that detail of being a few inches ahead of the ball.  Just assume everyone has to be behind the kicker, and the kicker is eligible because he is the one kicking.

Sir Blue and Gold

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 01, 2024, 09:11:17 PMYes he is and yes it would in theory.

A player of the kicking team (at any kick, not just a free kick) who is "onside" may recover the ball and retain possession for his team. This includes the kicker himself and anyone else behind the ball at the time it was kicked, other than the holder for a place kick.

Show me an NFL rule that says a punter is onside and can recover his own punt. Unless something has changed very recently, I don't believe it is possible.

The punter is onside in the CFL which is why the stupid play works.

Stats Junkie

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 01, 2024, 09:44:30 PMThe other week the CFL had that OSK where the kicker ran past the ball and then did some weird twist-leg-behind kick.  I wondered at the time how that was legal because he was clearly in front of the ball before touching it.  Wouldn't that kicker be offside?

The only way he wouldn't be offside is if there was a special rule that says the kicker can never be offside.

P.S. It was a great kick and intriguing kick motion.
By rule, the kicker (and holder if applicable) are considered to be onside for all kickoffs.
Twitter: @Stats_Junkie
Threads: statsjunkie71

dd

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 01, 2024, 10:58:16 PMShow me an NFL rule that says a punter is onside and can recover his own punt. Unless something has changed very recently, I don't believe it is possible.

The punter is onside in the CFL which is why the stupid play works.
On or offside on a punt is determined by the players position with respect to,the ball. The punter is behind the ball so he's onside. If you line up players behind the Baal, they're onside too. This is commonly seen in high school football where the punters aren't that great so teams try to recover their own punt by lining up onside.

Not sure what the NFL rule is, never watch that league, but from what I've seen anyth8ng to make the game more boring seems to be their rules. Kickoff through the end zone and fair catch punts, ya, they keep me on the edge of my seat!

Blue In BC

#28
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 01, 2024, 10:58:16 PMShow me an NFL rule that says a punter is onside and can recover his own punt. Unless something has changed very recently, I don't believe it is possible.

The punter is onside in the CFL which is why the stupid play works.

That's the quote I posted on my response.  There are a few older NFL video's but you can have an onside K/O and you can have an onside punt.


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TecnoGenius

Quote from: Stats Junkie on July 01, 2024, 11:08:16 PMBy rule, the kicker (and holder if applicable) are considered to be onside for all kickoffs.

Thank Junkie!  That's exactly what I was looking for.  Makes a lot of things make sense, then.  Interesting trivia re: the holder!
Never go full Rider!