The Non-Dribbled Non-OSK "Kick From Scrimmage" Again

[TecnoGenius]

MTL did the "1 yard dribble" again tonight.  They converted on 2nd & 20 with Antwi catching a hitch (behind the LoS), moving near the LoS, and dropping it on his leg, which moves the ball forward 1 yard, and then diving onto it.

MTL Rs were doing clearing routes to pull all the MTL Ds 25Y downfield.  A MTL guy made it to Antwi only after he was already in fetal.

A "free 20Y" (sort of) by advancing the ball 1Y beyond the LoS.

Ferguson said there was a huge off-season debate about the play and they decided to keep it legal.  News to me (the debate part, not the legal part).

I'm still not sold on it being a good thing for the league.  However, it does spice up the entertainment factor.

Why are other teams scouring the rulebooks finding loopholes and deploying trick plays, and never us?  Even after they show us the way we just ignore it.  Just like we ignore the advantage a DNA can give (well, not with our pathetic IMP situation...).

In the OTT game we had a chance to win the game if we won the Hail Mary (which we actually got off, for once)... and instead of studying and deploying the trick BC against us last season, we just sat there doing the "old style" Hail Mary, and failing as they normally do.  Why didn't we learn and keep 1-3 guys shallower and facing the pile for the rebound?  In this instance it would have been a catch and possibly we YAC it the 5Y into the EZ.

My point is all these interesting new ideas pop up, and are always noted here on the forum, and we ignore every last one of them.  Well, maybe we plan to defend against them, but we never integrate them for us to deploy.

We used to be the "top trick team" in the CFL when MOS first came in, back when we sucked.  As we got better we abandoned all the tricks.  Now we never do trick anything.  Heck, it's been a full season (plus!) since we tried a pass on 2nd & 1.  The idea was we were "too good" now and didn't "need" to do anything other than play straight up football by the book.  And it sounded reasonable...

So then why does league-top King Of The Hill MTL employ so many tricks and creativity?  And why does it help them win?  If "good" teams that can play fundamental ball don't need to "resort" to trickery, why are they?  And why is it working so well?

Maybe the whole concept of "so good you don't have to be creative" is bunk.  Maybe we're just lazy.  And stale.  Out-brained by Maas, Destroyer Of Headsets... SMH.

[gobombersgo]

Montreal also got a touchdown when their backup QB threw on 3rd and 1.

I am still waiting until Strevy throws a pass.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

MTL did the "1 yard dribble" again tonight.  They converted on 2nd & 20 with Antwi catching a hitch (behind the LoS), moving near the LoS, and dropping it on his leg, which moves the ball forward 1 yard, and then diving onto it.

MTL Rs were doing clearing routes to pull all the MTL Ds 25Y downfield.  A MTL guy made it to Antwi only after he was already in fetal.

A "free 20Y" (sort of) by advancing the ball 1Y beyond the LoS.

Ferguson said there was a huge off-season debate about the play and they decided to keep it legal.  News to me (the debate part, not the legal part).

I'm still not sold on it being a good thing for the league.  However, it does spice up the entertainment factor.

Why are other teams scouring the rulebooks finding loopholes and deploying trick plays, and never us?  Even after they show us the way we just ignore it.  Just like we ignore the advantage a DNA can give (well, not with our pathetic IMP situation...).

In the OTT game we had a chance to win the game if we won the Hail Mary (which we actually got off, for once)... and instead of studying and deploying the trick BC against us last season, we just sat there doing the "old style" Hail Mary, and failing as they normally do.  Why didn't we learn and keep 1-3 guys shallower and facing the pile for the rebound?  In this instance it would have been a catch and possibly we YAC it the 5Y into the EZ.

My point is all these interesting new ideas pop up, and are always noted here on the forum, and we ignore every last one of them.  Well, maybe we plan to defend against them, but we never integrate them for us to deploy.

We used to be the "top trick team" in the CFL when MOS first came in, back when we sucked.  As we got better we abandoned all the tricks.  Now we never do trick anything.  Heck, it's been a full season (plus!) since we tried a pass on 2nd & 1.  The idea was we were "too good" now and didn't "need" to do anything other than play straight up football by the book.  And it sounded reasonable...

So then why does league-top King Of The Hill MTL employ so many tricks and creativity?  And why does it help them win?  If "good" teams that can play fundamental ball don't need to "resort" to trickery, why are they?  And why is it working so well?

Maybe the whole concept of "so good you don't have to be creative" is bunk.  Maybe we're just lazy.  And stale.  Out-brained by Maas, Destroyer Of Headsets... SMH.

That play and the following TD changed the momentum of the game, Argos had them backed up 2nd and 20 or something huge and they pull that stunt to get an easy first down, really does feel like cheating when they use it.

[dd]

Not sure why the pro game has this loop hole. The amateur rule is dribbling a ball does not break the continuity of downs so there would be no automatic first down on a dribbled ball. Can't believe the pros took that part of the rule out, as it allows for what is going on now, huge 2 nd and 20 situation dribble the ball and recover it to get s first down even though you didn't gain any significant years. I expect this loop hole to be closed as it is bush league.

[bomb squad]

The best way to "close the loophole" is on the field. It's defendable. Be ready for it, cover it, get the ball. If that happens a couple of times, you won't see it for a few years.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The best way to "close the loophole" is on the field. It's defendable. Be ready for it, cover it, get the ball. If that happens a couple of times, you won't see for a few years.

Easy to say but difficult to defend against when it's not top of the mind, and why should it be?  There will be hell to pay if they pull that off in a playoff game and it influences the final outcome.  It was league negligence not to deal with it and get rid of it in the off-season.

[bomb squad]

Easy to say but difficult to defend against when it's not top of the mind, and why should it be?  There will be hell to pay if they pull that off in a playoff game and it influences the final outcome.  It was league negligence not to deal with it and get rid of it in the off-season.

If it so difficult to defend against, then everybody would be doing it.

[dd]

A dribbled ball is supposed to be a ball kicked while on the ground not in possession by any team. To me if you're carrying th ball and 'fumble' it only to kick it with no one around you, it should be treated as a fumble and as such a fumble doesn't reset your downs

[Jesse]

A dribbled ball is supposed to be a ball kicked while on the ground not in possession by any team. To me if you're carrying th ball and 'fumble' it only to kick it with no one around you, it should be treated as a fumble and as such a fumble doesn't reset your downs

It's not a dribbled ball. It's classified as an onside kick.

[Stats Junkie]

Not sure why the pro game has this loop hole. The amateur rule is dribbling a ball does not break the continuity of downs so there would be no automatic first down on a dribbled ball. Can't believe the pros took that part of the rule out, as it allows for what is going on now, huge 2 nd and 20 situation dribble the ball and recover it to get s first down even though you didn't gain any significant years. I expect this loop hole to be closed as it is bush league.

In the CFL, a dribbled ball does not break the continuity of downs either. The play in question is NOT a dribbled ball, it is classified as a 'Kick From Scrimmage'.

A dribbled ball is supposed to be a ball kicked while on the ground not in possession by any team.

You are correct. Same ruling in the CFL.

To me if you're carrying th ball and 'fumble' it only to kick it with no one around you, it should be treated as a fumble and as such a fumble doesn't reset your downs

Again, you are correct.

Bottom line - Everyone needs to stop calling this type of play a dribble kick.

[Stats Junkie]

In 2014, Montreal showed us how to defend this play - skip to 6:43

[TecnoGenius]

There, adjusting the thread title now that the high-brains have chimed in!  Thanks for the correction guys.

However, we may need to come up with a better term than OSK or "kick from scrimmage"... as those are too long-winded and ambiguous.

Let's hear some ideas on creative names for this play.  Preferably 1 or 2 words, and catchy!

[TecnoGenius]

It's not a dribbled ball. It's classified as an onside kick.

Not quite: it would have to be an onside punt, not like an OSK KO... OSK KO has to go 10Y.  Clearly this trick doesn't require the 10Y.

[TecnoGenius]

In 2014, Montreal showed us how to defend this play - skip to 6:43

Ya, it all hinges on every D biting on clearing routes (and the O doing good clearing routes in the first place!), and the D playing "prevent D" on 2nd & a mile, which they normally do.

What you have to do is have someone spy the sneak-out RB/TE/FB route and stay within ~15Y of him to get there in time.

But as we've seen, in 2nd & mile the default formation is to sit at the 1st down marker to stop the traditional play.  By having to cover the sneak-out guy you are sacrificing an extra defender in a tight zone or man double-coverage.

Since only MTL does this so far, the only time you have to defend this trick is when playing MTL.

[TecnoGenius]

If it so difficult to defend against, then everybody would be doing it.

Everybody isn't doing it because there's so much laziness and stodginess in the CFL.  Our team is a perfect example.

Some new trick that can maybe turn a game around for you?  Nah, ignore it.

Some new roster rule (DNA/DNS anyone?) that can give you an on-field advantage?  Nah, ignore it.

One thing I've noticed about MTL is they play every single card they are dealt.  They are far & away the most creative and "tricky" and "roster smart" team in the league.  And they don't even have to be, because they also have the raw talent.  No resting on laurels over in French land.

No, Henoc is correct: every single team should be deploying this.  Pick 1 or 2 players, as MTL clearly has, and task them with specializing this play.  Just like the Hail Mary trick, we should be lapping this stuff up and scheming and practicing.  Heck, all it takes is one lesser-used dude (say JA27) who still sees the field sometimes going off to the park on weekends and dropping/kicking the ball 1000 times until they have it down pat.

But nah, we'll just sit and complain.  Less work that way.