S. Lemon

[ichabod_crane]

It's kind of an ironic loophole. He should never have been allowed to play in the 1st place. An appeal should have been immediate and not 5 weeks into the season.

Arbitrations always take forever it seems in any professional sport. VERY RARELY is occurs immediately. Lawyers need to prepare and courts have limited slots to appear. This is NOT a court case though in that sense. 

[TecnoGenius]

So Lemon & co must think they will lose... or at least be sentenced to a suspension equal to or greater than the current one.  Because why would you ask for extensions and then be forced to sit out these 4-5 games if you thought you'd get it reduced to 0-3 games?

I think they know they are toast.

"including one in which he played"

Isn't that a new revelation?  I think earlier in the thread everyone thought it was only on other-team games?!  One would think betting on your own game is even more egregious than betting only on others.

[Blue In BC]

Arbitrations always take forever it seems in any professional sport. VERY RARELY is occurs immediately. Lawyers need to prepare and courts have limited slots to appear. This is NOT a court case though in that sense. 

I disagree. This is a code of conduct issue and not a legal argument where he could go to jail. It should be a closed loop inside the CFL.

I'd suggest a video call with 5 CFL GM's picked at random, excluding the team involved. Obviously they had proof of the betting issue and there is no recourse in arbitration.

[Blue In BC]

BTW. What exactly is happening with the Kelly suspension which was called a minimum 9 games. At some point they need to determine whether he gets to ever play again.

Again, this is a code of conduct issue. It's not a trial issue. The league has pushed players out of the league before, for various reasons.

Since they were able to suspend him for 9 games, IMO it's seems they can prohibit him from playing at least this season.

I'd vote to run him out of the league. I understand the innocent until proven guilty but this doesn't fall into the Canadian legal system.

[Jesse]

I disagree. This is a code of conduct issue and not a legal argument where he could go to jail. It should be a closed loop inside the CFL.

I'd suggest a video call with 5 CFL GM's picked at random, excluding the team involved. Obviously they had proof of the betting issue and there is no recourse in arbitration.

You can't just "suggest" things though. There's a process laid out by the CBA as negotiated by the union. The league doesn't get to change it at will.

[Blue In BC]

You can't just "suggest" things though. There's a process laid out by the CBA as negotiated by the union. The league doesn't get to change it at will.

They aren't changing it at will. The code of conduct is part of the CBA. A suspension is like a player being fined but to a more severe level. The level of fine is set at a maximum in the CBA. suspensions were previously set at 3 games. How they managed to suspend Kelly for 9 games minimum I'm not sure. Negotiated with the CFLPA?

There are suspensions which have resulted in random drug tests, for excessive violence ( Marino ) etc etc. There are team suspensions as well as league suspensions.

The most that ever comes out of an arbitration is a reduced time frame. You can't go backwards when the time has already been served as is the case with Kelly.

We've seen rules changed within the season. Removing the chipped balls for example. I'd think that requires some agreement from the CFLPA.

Regardless. We see suspensions challenged often and the system is broken.

How do you deal with a suspension in game 17 or 18. Chris Edwards had his carried over to the next season. That's just nuts. A player could retire, move to another team or be injured when the suspension was to be implemented.

None of this answers the question about when the final determination is made. Kelly was suspended for a minimum 9 games so it's an open question.

From a team PR point of view, they could cut him outright and sue him for re-imursement of money paid. Now that would be a civil case that could go either way.

However do the Argos really want a QB who is the face of the team with that perception pinned to his tail?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I disagree. This is a code of conduct issue and not a legal argument where he could go to jail. It should be a closed loop inside the CFL.

I'd suggest a video call with 5 CFL GM's picked at random, excluding the team involved. Obviously they had proof of the betting issue and there is no recourse in arbitration.

Question is what proof does the CFL have?  I'm sure they don't have access to his financial records and the company he bet with likely would not readily hand over bettor information even if they kept a record of it, which I don't know if they do.

[Blue In BC]

Question is what proof does the CFL have?  I'm sure they don't have access to his financial records and the company he bet with likely would not readily hand over bettor information even if they kept a record of it, which I don't know if they do.

I don't know but enough for a lifetime suspension and where the arbitrator ruled against a delay in the suspension being delayed further.

Let's say he misses 4 or 5 games and actually wins the case in some format. The lifetime ban could be decreased to a lessor amount of games. Does he get reimbursed if the number of games is reduced to less than games he missed?

All together that will be more than 2 months into the season.

Who pays the salary and does it get added into the SMS total.

Let's say he misses another 5 games and the suspension is reduced to 9 games. He returns to practice for game 14 or 15 and is immediately injured and lost for the season.

I remember Bomber OL Dyson being suspended in the off season for an overview of rough play during the previous season. IIRC, he was suspended for 6 games and chose to retire instead. That was a very odd circumstance and in theory he could have appealed.

The league ruled that his cumulative play of excessive force was used multiple times even though penalties were not called in each instance.

That's similar to Marino being pushed out of the league although I think it was more of a team decision than league decision?

[blue_gold_84]

Question is what proof does the CFL have?  I'm sure they don't have access to his financial records and the company he bet with likely would not readily hand over bettor information even if they kept a record of it, which I don't know if they do.

Does it matter? There's presumably something substantial considering the league's actions related to Lemon's.

[Blue In BC]

This is more about the process rather than just about Lemon. IMO the process is broken and takes too long.

A hypothetical example: A player in game 18 pushes and / or abuses an official. He's penalized and probably ejected from the game. The league issues a 1 game suspension but the player's team is going to play a semi final game the following week.

The players appeals and is allowed to play. How would that make any sense?

Back to Lemon. He'll potentially miss 4 games if the date of the arbitration is on August 2.  He won't be able to practice until a ruling so even if the ruling is made in his favour on August 2nd he'd miss that game.

I doubt he wins the arbitration and I doubt he's playing in 2024 regardless of the ruling.  It's bad PR for the team and the CFL.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Does it matter? There's presumably something substantial considering the league's actions related to Lemon's.

Just wondering what security mechanisms the CFL has at their disposal, do they hire private detectives to do investigative work?  I have no idea how they investigated the Chad Kelly affair.

[blue_gold_84]

Just wondering what security mechanisms the CFL has at their disposal, do they hire private detectives to do investigative work?  I have no idea how they investigated the Chad Kelly affair.

I can't find any information related to a dedicated in-house mechanism, but then that would lead me to think the league just hires independent investigators under contract for that specific instance, irrespective of the nature of the CBA violation.

[ichabod_crane]

BTW. What exactly is happening with the Kelly suspension which was called a minimum 9 games. At some point they need to determine whether he gets to ever play again.

Again, this is a code of conduct issue. It's not a trial issue. The league has pushed players out of the league before, for various reasons.

Since they were able to suspend him for 9 games, IMO it's seems they can prohibit him from playing at least this season.

I'd vote to run him out of the league. I understand the innocent until proven guilty but this doesn't fall into the Canadian legal system.

Kelly has been VERY QUIET All season so far and is probably doing a tap dance to make the league and Argos happy. My guess is since the lawsuit was settled out of court already, he will be coming back after 9 games "pretending" he is a changed person. Think his track record is too long for him to change from being an a-hole , but sometimes people change if given a MAJOR wake-up call. We shall see and since it is really his first major offence in the CFL I believe he will be back. If it had been true physical harassment then I might have a different opinion. 

The law gives drunk drivers in Canada a few stages of suspension (1st/2nd/3rd offences) before lifetime suspensions come into effect just for comparisons sake. 

[Jesse]

Kelly has been VERY QUIET All season so far and is probably doing a tap dance to make the league and Argos happy. My guess is since the lawsuit was settled out of court already, he will be coming back after 9 games "pretending" he is a changed person. Think his track record is too long for him to change from being an a-hole , but sometimes people change if given a MAJOR wake-up call. We shall see and since it is really his first major offence in the CFL I believe he will be back. If it had been true physical harassment then I might have a different opinion. 

The law gives drunk drivers in Canada a few stages of suspension (1st/2nd/3rd offences) before lifetime suspensions come into effect just for comparisons sake. 

Kelly got in trouble yesterday for live tweeting during the Argos game, lol.

[ichabod_crane]

Kelly got in trouble yesterday for live tweeting during the Argos game, lol.

I did not hear about that.....what exactly did he say?