S. Lemon

Started by Blue In BC, June 19, 2024, 10:08:14 PM

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Blue In BC

Anyone hear anything about the status of his appeal? Game 3 and he's still playing. That's total BS.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

TecnoGenius

Ya, I thought it was BS when I got to PAS and saw him on the field.  I knew he'd be big trouble, and he was.

Those who said "just imagine if we had signed Lemon late '23" were/are right.  Not only would we have probably won the GC because MTL would have gotten way less pressure, but we'd have an instant solution to our 2024 DL woes.

Woulda coulda shoulda.  Whisper was we did look at it... probably wasn't enough SMS left.

Who would have thought a totally aged-out geriatric and plump DE would be so fast and dominant.  In week 1 he actually ran down Demski from behind on a sweep.  Actually out-sped him.  I have no words for this.
Never go full Rider!

Road Griller

If we had Lemon I bet we would have won.  I imagine he would as well....

Blueforlife

Quote from: Road Griller on June 19, 2024, 11:23:49 PMIf we had Lemon I bet we would have won.  I imagine he would as well....
Your posts sure make a lot of assumptions

Stats Junkie

According to Dave Naylor the arbitration hearing will be the first week of July.
Twitter: @Stats_Junkie
Threads: statsjunkie71

ModAdmin

Where is this headed.  Seems simple...he bet on games or he didn't bet on games.  Cut and dried? 
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden

TecnoGenius

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 20, 2024, 06:23:01 AMWhere is this headed.  Seems simple...he bet on games or he didn't bet on games.  Cut and dried? 

Maybe the question is about the # of games.  I think gambling like this is without precedent in the CFL?  So one could say X games or Y seasons is arbitrary and fight for a reduced punishment.

On the bright side, if we make it to the GC this year, and it's MTL, we won't have to deal with him.
Never go full Rider!

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Stats Junkie on June 20, 2024, 06:09:30 AMAccording to Dave Naylor the arbitration hearing will be the first week of July.

That's garbage, he should be suspended without pay until the arbitration hearing and not allowed to continue playing. The CFL already deemed him guilty of the crime and handed down punishment, so they must have valid evidence.

Pigskin

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 20, 2024, 03:09:58 PMThat's garbage, he should be suspended without pay until the arbitration hearing and not allowed to continue playing. The CFL already deemed him guilty of the crime and handed down punishment, so they must have valid evidence.

Agree. Far to long to make a decision on this.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Road Griller

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 20, 2024, 02:22:36 AMYour posts sure make a lot of assumptions

Let's talk absolutes.  Montreal absolutely won.  Lemon absolutely had a great game.  He absolutely outplayed Jefferson.

Our Dline was absolutely gassed at the end and could not get pressure.

You absolutely missed the punchline.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Road Griller on June 20, 2024, 04:50:20 PMLet's talk absolutes.  Montreal absolutely won.  Lemon absolutely had a great game.  He absolutely outplayed Jefferson.

Our Dline was absolutely gassed at the end and could not get pressure.

You absolutely missed the punchline.

Don't recall you posting much in the last few years but seem to recall you frequented this forum regularly before the Bombers turned the corner and became a competitive football team.  Do you relish in their losing?

gobombersgo

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 20, 2024, 07:32:36 AMMaybe the question is about the # of games.  I think gambling like this is without precedent in the CFL?  So one could say X games or Y seasons is arbitrary and fight for a reduced punishment.

On the bright side, if we make it to the GC this year, and it's MTL, we won't have to deal with him.

I think the CFL has made it clear that players/staff cant bet on games and will be banned from the league if they do.

I believe the only grounds Lemon has for his appeal is saying he was not made aware he wasnt allowed to bet on games. Remember, this was a few years ago and the league may not have had the guidelines in place that they do now.

Now even people in Ed Tait's position have to go through a seminar that explicitly states he is unable to bet on games. Was that in place when Lemon gambled?

ModAdmin

Quote from: gobombersgo on June 20, 2024, 05:07:44 PMI think the CFL has made it clear that players/staff cant bet on games and will be banned from the league if they do.

I believe the only grounds Lemon has for his appeal is saying he was not made aware he wasnt allowed to bet on games. Remember, this was a few years ago and the league may not have had the guidelines in place that they do now.

Now even people in Ed Tait's position have to go through a seminar that explicitly states he is unable to bet on games. Was that in place when Lemon gambled?

Good point.  I would think though that the league would not have arbitrarily suspended him if it happened before any rules were in effect.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden

blue_gold_84

#13
Quote from: Stats Junkie on June 20, 2024, 06:09:30 AMAccording to Dave Naylor the arbitration hearing will be the first week of July.

At least the league has prioritized this...

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 20, 2024, 05:06:52 PMDon't recall you posting much in the last few years but seem to recall you frequented this forum regularly before the Bombers turned the corner and became a competitive football team.  Do you relish in their losing?

It wouldn't shock me at all if this is the same user who went by road griller before getting the banhammer. Same whiny commentary and all - only it was about the Jets and Hellebucyk before.
#forthew
лава Україні!
What a wretched timeline.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: gobombersgo on June 20, 2024, 05:07:44 PMI think the CFL has made it clear that players/staff cant bet on games and will be banned from the league if they do.

I believe the only grounds Lemon has for his appeal is saying he was not made aware he wasnt allowed to bet on games. Remember, this was a few years ago and the league may not have had the guidelines in place that they do now.

Now even people in Ed Tait's position have to go through a seminar that explicitly states he is unable to bet on games. Was that in place when Lemon gambled?

Don't buy it, there have been so many sports scandals with sports gambling over the past century that every athlete should be well aware this is a line they dare not cross.  I think the wiley old vet. is just trying to "squeeze a few more games out of the Lemon", before he's officially banned.  ;D

Blue In BC

Lemon could end up playing 5 or 6 games before a resolution is found. I'm fine with a lifetime suspension if he's found guilty of the gambling charge.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

Blueforlife

Quote from: Road Griller on June 20, 2024, 04:50:20 PMLet's talk absolutes.  Montreal absolutely won.  Lemon absolutely had a great game.  He absolutely outplayed Jefferson.

Our Dline was absolutely gassed at the end and could not get pressure.

You absolutely missed the punchline.
If we had Lemon I doubt it would have impacted the outcome imo.

Road Griller

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 20, 2024, 10:41:45 PMIf we had Lemon I doubt it would have impacted the outcome imo.

You don't know that either but it would have made them weaker and us stronger.  Our line was gassed, he also raised havoc on our line all game.

Outplayed Willie by a mile.  Would have been a great rotational pick up. 

Hopefully they learned their lesson and are open to mid season pick ups in areas of need.

Blueforlife

Quote from: Road Griller on June 20, 2024, 11:13:11 PMYou don't know that either but it would have made them weaker and us stronger.  Our line was gassed, he also raised havoc on our line all game.

Outplayed Willie by a mile.  Would have been a great rotational pick up. 

Hopefully they learned their lesson and are open to mid season pick ups in areas of need.
Over selling the Lemon impact imo.  I prefer to develop not sign old vets.  Key reason why our dynasty run happened.

But you have all the answers thus far this season.

Jesse

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 20, 2024, 11:44:27 PMOver selling the Lemon impact imo.  I prefer to develop not sign old vets.  Key reason why our dynasty run happened.

But you have all the answers thus far this season.

Sorry bud, that's just not true.

Most of our best players were signed in FA from other teams. There is a significant change from how this team was run and is currently run, both from the front office side and the coaching side. We don't have to ignore it in order to be supporters of the team.
My wife is amazing!

Blueforlife

#20
Quote from: Jesse on June 21, 2024, 11:05:45 AMSorry bud, that's just not true.

Most of our best players were signed in FA from other teams. There is a significant change from how this team was run and is currently run, both from the front office side and the coaching side. We don't have to ignore it in order to be supporters of the team.
I think our development of players has played a key role.  Yes one of the key factors was management and coaching changes.  For sure we brought in some talent no doubt about that.  Zach, Harris, Demski and the parts of the oline are good examples.  To clarify my point I have seen this organization be patient with next man up, strong drafting and being patient with our lineup.  We have not made that many big splashes in free agency especially for our depth players.  This has been the way be build our defense every year.  We also did this with receiver.  We wouldn't overpay for free agents allowing our club to retain vets.  I agree with some of what you said but I stand by my position and hope this have cleaned it up.  I trust that our PR and bringing back TC cuts will fill holes but if our IR grows, signing a few key players might be needed.

Signing Kenny was a nice move.

One point I wanted to make was we generally don't sign aging free agents.  We have filled those gaps with younger players.

Road Griller

Quote from: Jesse on June 21, 2024, 11:05:45 AMSorry bud, that's just not true.

Most of our best players were signed in FA from other teams. There is a significant change from how this team was run and is currently run, both from the front office side and the coaching side. We don't have to ignore it in order to be supporters of the team.

Harris,Bryant (can't remember if it was a trade) , Willie, Biggie, Randle, Medlock even Dressler was a big part of the culture shift.

This is the CFL, you don't rebuild.  You reload.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 21, 2024, 12:27:35 PMI think our development of players has played a key role.  Yes one of the key factors was management and coaching changes.  For sure we brought in some talent no doubt about that.  Zach, Harris, Demski and the parts of the oline are good examples.  To clarify my point I have seen this organization be patient with next man up, strong drafting and being patient with our lineup.  We have not made that many big splashes in free agency especially for our depth players.  This has been the way be build our defense every year.  We also did this with receiver.  We wouldn't overpay for free agents allowing our club to retain vets.  I agree with some of what you said but I stand by my position and hope this have cleaned it up.  I trust that our PR and bringing back TC cuts will fill holes but if our IR grows, signing a few key players might be needed.

Signing Kenny was a nice move.

One point I wanted to make was we generally don't sign aging free agents.  We have filled those gaps with younger players.

Re-signing Lawler was a terrible move when they already had Schoen in house playing on an ELC, Lawler's spot could have been filled by almost anybody.  He's entering Nick Moore territory in terms of reliability and he gives Zach the misplaced confidence that throwing long passes into bad locations is a solid plan as long as Kenny is around the ball, which is the epitome of dumb football.

blue_gold_84

Comparing Lawler to Nick Moore...?

Good gravy, what's happening on this forum.
#forthew
лава Україні!
What a wretched timeline.

Jesse

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 21, 2024, 04:25:12 PMComparing Lawler to Nick Moore...?

Good gravy, what's happening on this forum.

In terms of reliability. Don't manipulate the comment into something it's not.

Lawler has not been able to put a full season together.
My wife is amazing!

blue_gold_84

Quote from: Jesse on June 21, 2024, 05:41:15 PMIn terms of reliability. Don't manipulate the comment into something it's not.

Lawler has not been able to put a full season together.

Seriously, man?

I think it's a poor comparison. Lawler is considerably more reliable and productive than Moore ever was.
#forthew
лава Україні!
What a wretched timeline.

Road Griller

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 20, 2024, 11:44:27 PMOver selling the Lemon impact imo.  I prefer to develop not sign old vets.  Key reason why our dynasty run happened.

But you have all the answers thus far this season.

Must have missed the dynasty run...?  Four good seasons with back to back losses to underdogs in the final a dynasty does not make.

Last cup win was '21.  A long time ago, I remember we were wearing masks in the stands way back then.  Interesting times.

Let's see what they have tonight, from the penthouse to the outhouse or a season turning dominating game at home?

Time for them to show us who they are in a must win game.  Go Blue!

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 21, 2024, 05:48:07 PMSeriously, man?

I think it's a poor comparison. Lawler is considerably more reliable and productive than Moore ever was.

Not so far fetched, Nick Moore was an elite receiver when he signed with the Bombers for $170k in 2014 when they had no other big name receivers on the roster and attracting players to Wpg. was difficult.  Unfortunately he was plagued with some weak QB's and spent a lot of time on the IR in his tenure in Wpg.  Since receiving the large bump in salary from Jones, Lawler has yet to play close to a full season and has not yet matched his pre-bonanza production.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 21, 2024, 04:25:12 PMComparing Lawler to Nick Moore...?

Good gravy, what's happening on this forum.

Lawler = Nick was my original comparison.  Look at pictures of them, they are basically the same body.  Same lanky frame, thin bones (compared to say, Cottoy), thus easily injured.

They also make the same kind of plays and are used in much the same way.

Yes, Kenny's stats are much better than Nick's ever were... and Kenny's best circus plays are better than Nick's.  So to be totally accurate we can call Kenny the "new & improved" Nick Moore.

P.S. Nick was making sick plays and big stats when he was still in his prime in BC.  Go back and check, especially on a per-game basis to eliminate the injury stat reductions.  We all better pray that Kenny's game doesn't fall off as quickly as Nick's did when he started getting older... especially while we're paying him ~$300k.
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius





If you blurred the faces and obfuscated the jersey and number, no one would be able to tell the difference.

Nick 6'2 195
Kenny 6'2 199

It's basically the same dude.
Never go full Rider!

Blueforlife

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 21, 2024, 04:25:12 PMComparing Lawler to Nick Moore...?

Good gravy, what's happening on this forum.
It's come unhinged

Blueforlife

#31
Quote from: Road Griller on June 21, 2024, 06:56:23 PMMust have missed the dynasty run...?  Four good seasons with back to back losses to underdogs in the final a dynasty does not make.

Last cup win was '21.  A long time ago, I remember we were wearing masks in the stands way back then.  Interesting times.

Let's see what they have tonight, from the penthouse to the outhouse or a season turning dominating game at home?

Time for them to show us who they are in a must win game.  Go Blue!
The last four year have been as dominant for the Bombers in decades end of. 

Road Griller

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 22, 2024, 05:50:43 AMThe last four year have been as dominant for the Bombers in decades end of.  Very little of what you post makes any sense imo.

2-2 lost 2 titles back to back going in as the favourite.  Not a CFL dynasty. Thinking it was makes no sense.

Blueforlife

Quote from: Road Griller on June 22, 2024, 05:58:38 AM2-2 lost 2 titles back to back going in as the favourite.  Not a CFL dynasty. Thinking it was makes no sense.
I consider it a mini dynasty and was a good as run we have had in decades.  You speak of it like it meant nothing and didn't happen.  It's OK, we can disagree like every post you make.

Yes not a dynasty by the classic definition.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 21, 2024, 09:32:25 PMLawler = Nick was my original comparison.  Look at pictures of them, they are basically the same body.  Same lanky frame, thin bones (compared to say, Cottoy), thus easily injured.

They also make the same kind of plays and are used in much the same way.

Yes, Kenny's stats are much better than Nick's ever were... and Kenny's best circus plays are better than Nick's.  So to be totally accurate we can call Kenny the "new & improved" Nick Moore.

P.S. Nick was making sick plays and big stats when he was still in his prime in BC.  Go back and check, especially on a per-game basis to eliminate the injury stat reductions.  We all better pray that Kenny's game doesn't fall off as quickly as Nick's did when he started getting older... especially while we're paying him ~$300k.

I did get Nick Moore's salary wrong, he was paid around $145k in 2014.  It was an ex-Stamps receiver who signed with the Argos who broke the $170k threshold around the same time, only to retire a couple years later. Can't even recall his name now.

1chad

Getting back to the original thread, I hate the fact that it is taking so freaking long to get an arbitrator ruling.  All the other leagues seem to be able to get this stuff resolved in a week.  And yes, I get the CFL cannot afford to pay arbitrators to be on standby.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: 1chad on June 24, 2024, 12:26:04 AMGetting back to the original thread, I hate the fact that it is taking so freaking long to get an arbitrator ruling.  All the other leagues seem to be able to get this stuff resolved in a week.  And yes, I get the CFL cannot afford to pay arbitrators to be on standby.

Whatever they decide, I hope they time it so that Lemon is out when we next face MTL, in week 21.  It'll be garbage-game time for MTL anyhow.  Last thing we need is for anyone to get Lemonated.  Our season will probably still be hanging by a thread come week 21, even if we have everyone back and are finally firing on all cylinders (the early loses will be hard to overcome).
Never go full Rider!

gobombersgo

Lemon and his lawyer had pushed the hearing from July 5th to the beginning of Aug.

The league felt he should be suspended until the hearing and the arbitrator agreed.

As a result, Lemon is suspended effective immediately.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: gobombersgo on July 04, 2024, 06:12:13 PMLemon and his lawyer had pushed the hearing from July 5th to the beginning of Aug.

The league felt he should be suspended until the hearing and the arbitrator agreed.

As a result, Lemon is suspended effective immediately.

Bye Bye Lemon.

gobombersgo


LXTSN

Quote from: gobombersgo on July 04, 2024, 06:12:13 PMLemon and his lawyer had pushed the hearing from July 5th to the beginning of Aug.

The league felt he should be suspended until the hearing and the arbitrator agreed.

As a result, Lemon is suspended effective immediately.
Good. Then he can't just keep pushing it back to continue playing.
If convicted, he should have to forfeit those gameday cheques from the games he played in.

Blue In BC

Quote from: LXTSN on July 04, 2024, 06:34:40 PMGood. Then he can't just keep pushing it back to continue playing.
If convicted, he should have to forfeit those gameday cheques from the games he played in.

It's kind of an ironic loophole. He should never have been allowed to play in the 1st place. An appeal should have been immediate and not 5 weeks into the season.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

Sir Blue and Gold

Quote from: LXTSN on July 04, 2024, 06:34:40 PMGood. Then he can't just keep pushing it back to continue playing.
If convicted, he should have to forfeit those gameday cheques from the games he played in.

If he's not, should the Als pay him for the games he's suspended for up until the hearing?

Blue In BC

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 04, 2024, 06:49:35 PMIf he's not, should the Als pay him for the games he's suspended for up until the hearing?

I'd say no they shouldn't and there have been several recent examples that have set precedent. Lawler last year for example.
2019 Grey Cup Champions


ichabod_crane

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 04, 2024, 06:45:53 PMIt's kind of an ironic loophole. He should never have been allowed to play in the 1st place. An appeal should have been immediate and not 5 weeks into the season.

Arbitrations always take forever it seems in any professional sport. VERY RARELY is occurs immediately. Lawyers need to prepare and courts have limited slots to appear. This is NOT a court case though in that sense. 

TecnoGenius

So Lemon & co must think they will lose... or at least be sentenced to a suspension equal to or greater than the current one.  Because why would you ask for extensions and then be forced to sit out these 4-5 games if you thought you'd get it reduced to 0-3 games?

I think they know they are toast.

"including one in which he played"

Isn't that a new revelation?  I think earlier in the thread everyone thought it was only on other-team games?!  One would think betting on your own game is even more egregious than betting only on others.
Never go full Rider!

Blue In BC

Quote from: ichabod_crane on July 05, 2024, 06:16:10 AMArbitrations always take forever it seems in any professional sport. VERY RARELY is occurs immediately. Lawyers need to prepare and courts have limited slots to appear. This is NOT a court case though in that sense. 

I disagree. This is a code of conduct issue and not a legal argument where he could go to jail. It should be a closed loop inside the CFL.

I'd suggest a video call with 5 CFL GM's picked at random, excluding the team involved. Obviously they had proof of the betting issue and there is no recourse in arbitration.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

Blue In BC

BTW. What exactly is happening with the Kelly suspension which was called a minimum 9 games. At some point they need to determine whether he gets to ever play again.

Again, this is a code of conduct issue. It's not a trial issue. The league has pushed players out of the league before, for various reasons.

Since they were able to suspend him for 9 games, IMO it's seems they can prohibit him from playing at least this season.

I'd vote to run him out of the league. I understand the innocent until proven guilty but this doesn't fall into the Canadian legal system.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

Jesse

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 05, 2024, 02:22:46 PMI disagree. This is a code of conduct issue and not a legal argument where he could go to jail. It should be a closed loop inside the CFL.

I'd suggest a video call with 5 CFL GM's picked at random, excluding the team involved. Obviously they had proof of the betting issue and there is no recourse in arbitration.

You can't just "suggest" things though. There's a process laid out by the CBA as negotiated by the union. The league doesn't get to change it at will.
My wife is amazing!

Blue In BC

#50
Quote from: Jesse on July 05, 2024, 02:44:01 PMYou can't just "suggest" things though. There's a process laid out by the CBA as negotiated by the union. The league doesn't get to change it at will.

They aren't changing it at will. The code of conduct is part of the CBA. A suspension is like a player being fined but to a more severe level. The level of fine is set at a maximum in the CBA. suspensions were previously set at 3 games. How they managed to suspend Kelly for 9 games minimum I'm not sure. Negotiated with the CFLPA?

There are suspensions which have resulted in random drug tests, for excessive violence ( Marino ) etc etc. There are team suspensions as well as league suspensions.

The most that ever comes out of an arbitration is a reduced time frame. You can't go backwards when the time has already been served as is the case with Kelly.

We've seen rules changed within the season. Removing the chipped balls for example. I'd think that requires some agreement from the CFLPA.

Regardless. We see suspensions challenged often and the system is broken.

How do you deal with a suspension in game 17 or 18. Chris Edwards had his carried over to the next season. That's just nuts. A player could retire, move to another team or be injured when the suspension was to be implemented.

None of this answers the question about when the final determination is made. Kelly was suspended for a minimum 9 games so it's an open question.

From a team PR point of view, they could cut him outright and sue him for re-imursement of money paid. Now that would be a civil case that could go either way.

However do the Argos really want a QB who is the face of the team with that perception pinned to his tail?




2019 Grey Cup Champions

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 05, 2024, 02:22:46 PMI disagree. This is a code of conduct issue and not a legal argument where he could go to jail. It should be a closed loop inside the CFL.

I'd suggest a video call with 5 CFL GM's picked at random, excluding the team involved. Obviously they had proof of the betting issue and there is no recourse in arbitration.

Question is what proof does the CFL have?  I'm sure they don't have access to his financial records and the company he bet with likely would not readily hand over bettor information even if they kept a record of it, which I don't know if they do.

Blue In BC

#52
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 05, 2024, 03:25:06 PMQuestion is what proof does the CFL have?  I'm sure they don't have access to his financial records and the company he bet with likely would not readily hand over bettor information even if they kept a record of it, which I don't know if they do.

I don't know but enough for a lifetime suspension and where the arbitrator ruled against a delay in the suspension being delayed further.

Let's say he misses 4 or 5 games and actually wins the case in some format. The lifetime ban could be decreased to a lessor amount of games. Does he get reimbursed if the number of games is reduced to less than games he missed?

All together that will be more than 2 months into the season.

Who pays the salary and does it get added into the SMS total.

Let's say he misses another 5 games and the suspension is reduced to 9 games. He returns to practice for game 14 or 15 and is immediately injured and lost for the season.

I remember Bomber OL Dyson being suspended in the off season for an overview of rough play during the previous season. IIRC, he was suspended for 6 games and chose to retire instead. That was a very odd circumstance and in theory he could have appealed.

The league ruled that his cumulative play of excessive force was used multiple times even though penalties were not called in each instance.

That's similar to Marino being pushed out of the league although I think it was more of a team decision than league decision?



2019 Grey Cup Champions

blue_gold_84

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 05, 2024, 03:25:06 PMQuestion is what proof does the CFL have?  I'm sure they don't have access to his financial records and the company he bet with likely would not readily hand over bettor information even if they kept a record of it, which I don't know if they do.

Does it matter? There's presumably something substantial considering the league's actions related to Lemon's.
#forthew
лава Україні!
What a wretched timeline.

Blue In BC

#54
This is more about the process rather than just about Lemon. IMO the process is broken and takes too long.

A hypothetical example: A player in game 18 pushes and / or abuses an official. He's penalized and probably ejected from the game. The league issues a 1 game suspension but the player's team is going to play a semi final game the following week.

The players appeals and is allowed to play. How would that make any sense?

Back to Lemon. He'll potentially miss 4 games if the date of the arbitration is on August 2.  He won't be able to practice until a ruling so even if the ruling is made in his favour on August 2nd he'd miss that game.

I doubt he wins the arbitration and I doubt he's playing in 2024 regardless of the ruling.  It's bad PR for the team and the CFL.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 05, 2024, 03:54:03 PMDoes it matter? There's presumably something substantial considering the league's actions related to Lemon's.

Just wondering what security mechanisms the CFL has at their disposal, do they hire private detectives to do investigative work?  I have no idea how they investigated the Chad Kelly affair.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 05, 2024, 05:40:53 PMJust wondering what security mechanisms the CFL has at their disposal, do they hire private detectives to do investigative work?  I have no idea how they investigated the Chad Kelly affair.

I can't find any information related to a dedicated in-house mechanism, but then that would lead me to think the league just hires independent investigators under contract for that specific instance, irrespective of the nature of the CBA violation.
#forthew
лава Україні!
What a wretched timeline.

ichabod_crane

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 05, 2024, 02:28:31 PMBTW. What exactly is happening with the Kelly suspension which was called a minimum 9 games. At some point they need to determine whether he gets to ever play again.

Again, this is a code of conduct issue. It's not a trial issue. The league has pushed players out of the league before, for various reasons.

Since they were able to suspend him for 9 games, IMO it's seems they can prohibit him from playing at least this season.

I'd vote to run him out of the league. I understand the innocent until proven guilty but this doesn't fall into the Canadian legal system.

Kelly has been VERY QUIET All season so far and is probably doing a tap dance to make the league and Argos happy. My guess is since the lawsuit was settled out of court already, he will be coming back after 9 games "pretending" he is a changed person. Think his track record is too long for him to change from being an a-hole , but sometimes people change if given a MAJOR wake-up call. We shall see and since it is really his first major offence in the CFL I believe he will be back. If it had been true physical harassment then I might have a different opinion. 

The law gives drunk drivers in Canada a few stages of suspension (1st/2nd/3rd offences) before lifetime suspensions come into effect just for comparisons sake. 

Jesse

Quote from: ichabod_crane on July 06, 2024, 05:28:33 AMKelly has been VERY QUIET All season so far and is probably doing a tap dance to make the league and Argos happy. My guess is since the lawsuit was settled out of court already, he will be coming back after 9 games "pretending" he is a changed person. Think his track record is too long for him to change from being an a-hole , but sometimes people change if given a MAJOR wake-up call. We shall see and since it is really his first major offence in the CFL I believe he will be back. If it had been true physical harassment then I might have a different opinion. 

The law gives drunk drivers in Canada a few stages of suspension (1st/2nd/3rd offences) before lifetime suspensions come into effect just for comparisons sake. 

Kelly got in trouble yesterday for live tweeting during the Argos game, lol.
My wife is amazing!

ichabod_crane

Quote from: Jesse on July 06, 2024, 05:29:36 AMKelly got in trouble yesterday for live tweeting during the Argos game, lol.

I did not hear about that.....what exactly did he say?

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 05, 2024, 02:58:19 PMHowever do the Argos really want a QB who is the face of the team with that perception pinned to his tail?

100% yes!  They want to win.  Teams have figured out Dukes.  I looked at the Dukes stats and every week he gets less passing yards (pretty much).

They certainly won't care for 2024.  I guess if Pinball really cared he could consider ditching or trading Kelly in the off-season... but I wouldn't bet money on that!!

Besides, if Kelly doesn't "reform", almost certainly he'll screw up again.  Dude should get a wife, one that will keep tabs on him and bring the hammer!  Could be the best thing to ever happen to him.  Often will make a fella grow up right fast!
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 05, 2024, 03:25:06 PMQuestion is what proof does the CFL have?  I'm sure they don't have access to his financial records and the company he bet with likely would not readily hand over bettor information even if they kept a record of it, which I don't know if they do.

Well how did they find out to begin with?  They almost certainly have a whistleblower, whether someone inside the betting company, or some player Lemon bragged to, or a family member.  Loose lips sink Lemons.
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 05, 2024, 05:40:53 PMJust wondering what security mechanisms the CFL has at their disposal, do they hire private detectives to do investigative work?  I have no idea how they investigated the Chad Kelly affair.

They told us in the Kelly incident already... check out the old Kelly thread.  CFL admitted they hired a Sask-based PI firm, which I find simply hilarious, because when I think of private eyes, I think of Regina...  ;D  ;D  ;D
Never go full Rider!

theaardvark

Can we appeal out Game 1 loss for "Use of an illegal player"? 

Lemon have the most tackles and sacks of any Al.  His presence on the field affected the game.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: theaardvark on July 06, 2024, 06:45:45 PMCan we appeal out Game 1 loss for "Use of an illegal player"? 

"Illegal Participation, Gambling Player, Retroactive 300 yard penalty, Game result is overturned!"

I'm on board with that!  Make it so, number one!
Never go full Rider!

ichabod_crane

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 06, 2024, 07:24:38 AMThey told us in the Kelly incident already... check out the old Kelly thread.  CFL admitted they hired a Sask-based PI firm, which I find simply hilarious, because when I think of private eyes, I think of Regina...  ;D  ;D  ;D

Did you not know Thomas Magnum PI is from Sask?! :D

ichabod_crane

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 07, 2024, 05:23:20 AM"Illegal Participation, Gambling Player, Retroactive 300 yard penalty, Game result is overturned!"

I'm on board with that!  Make it so, number one!



Wesley.....stop being a twit! :D

TecnoGenius

Quote from: ichabod_crane on July 08, 2024, 10:01:30 PMDid you not know Thomas Magnum PI is from Sask?! :D

Remind me of SCTV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVcivvkBgmw

The CFL is using the Regina version: "put that wheat and potash back, punk!"
Never go full Rider!

Blue In BC

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 07, 2024, 05:23:20 AM"Illegal Participation, Gambling Player, Retroactive 300 yard penalty, Game result is overturned!"

I'm on board with that!  Make it so, number one!

That's part of the issue in allowing a player to play while in arbitration. You can't take back what is allowed to proceed.

The Lemon case is the perfect example since it's the 1st time we've had a permanent ban from playing. His suspension might be reduced so there might be something acceptable as a result.
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