Should the overpaid stars restructure?

[TecnoGenius]

This is a perfectly acceptable topic to bring up, just not in week 2. It's something we can debate after the season.

If there's no law against contract changes in-season, then nothing to stop them now.  Purely voluntary (well, FIFO will kick in if a couple big names do it first, but no management coercion).

It's actually brilliant because if you're Kenny starting yet another season missing 8+ games, don't you have a pang of guilt that you may not be earning all of your league-best salary?  Why not give a miniscule little back to the team to return mid-season to a .750 team instead of a .250 team??  Same for unprecedented-salary-holdout WM-had-to-step-in-it-was-so-preposterous Brady?

It just needs someone to draw up the math, have the vet signing name idea in hand, and present the option.  If they all hate the idea, great, forget it and have fun with the 4th stringers botching every 3rd play.

[TecnoGenius]

We also have to be extremely careful and strategic in how we take the non-ELCs off of the 6GIR... we will almost certainly go over-cap again if we take Kenny, Lawson and Parker and maybe even Haba off the 6G after 5 weeks...

I think for once we really will be stuck leaving many guys on the 6G for the full 6+.

That reminds me, after the 6 is up, do they go on another full 6 or can we pull them with full SMS savings in (say) week 8?

And why on earth would we put any player who was going to be out for 2+ weeks on the 1GIR?  Like Brady.  Why wouldn't we just put everyone on the 6G?  What if what we think is 2 weeks for Brady turns into 6.  Then we get the royal shaft in terms of SMS.

Is there a downside to 6G'ing everyone?

Already, in hindsight, Brady probably should have been on the 6G coming out of TC.

[TecnoGenius]

Zach is the guy.  Think Ricky Ray.  He's the Ricky Ray of right now.  He'll still win you a cup.

You simply don't cut the guy just voted #1 best player in the league.  You don't cut the guy who took you to 4 GCs.

A Zach (known winner) bird in the hand is always worth more than a Dru (maybe winner) in the bush.

There is zero ZERO chance we cut Zach before his contract is up unless he turns into post-injury Matt Nichols.  And that won't happen.  Didn't happen to Ricky Ray.

In the words of the immortal PJ: end of.

As many said: team sport.  Even some Rider fans I've been reading know the deal: a weaker OL equals worse QB play.  Call that 40% of Zach's problems.  Weak run game due to lame Brady and good-but-not-franchise Johnny: call that 20% of Zach's problems.  Weak rookie receivers and whiffing rusty vets so far: another 20%.  Oh, and let's add in some bonus blame for Buck basically stinking the joint out with stale, predictable calls for quite a while now.

That leaves about 20% I'd blame squarely on Zach.  He hasn't dialed it in very well yet.  He has off-season rust.  His pocket presence isn't as good as 2 years ago.  His escapability has gone down (partially because teams plan to contain his favorite exits though).  And he sometimes gets fooled by trick schemes by Ds (again, planning for years on how to beat Zach/WPG though).

I can handle a 20% down Zach, especially knowing he'll likely claw back 10% of that.  A resultant 10% down Zach is still better than almost every other QB.

The 80/20 rule says we need to fix the bigger problems first: OL weakness, run game, receivers.  If you fix much of those, Zach will look like a #1 again.  Our QB is basically the least of our worries right now.  (But I'd still want him to contribute a couple of $10k's to sign some better players!)

[ichabod_crane]

It's actually brilliant because if you're Kenny starting yet another season missing 8+ games, don't you have a pang of guilt that you may not be earning all of your league-best salary?  Why not give a miniscule little back to the team to return mid-season to a .750 team instead of a .250 team??  Same for unprecedented-salary-holdout WM-had-to-step-in-it-was-so-preposterous Brady?

Ahh no. He is already giving up cash on the Bombers salary cap + if he is truly injured long term insurance will cover that. So he OWES The Bombers nothing in my view. That is how pro-sports contracts work. These players are not charity cases.

Sure if he WANTS to do it, go right ahead, but to expect him to have some guilt over a contract he and the Bombers both signed in good faith is ridiculous. Sorry for my tone, but I almost would NEVER give up part of my salary to my employer unless they or I had a very VERY good reason. To clear up salary cap et al is NOT a good enough reason as players have usually a short shelf life so need to maximize earning power all they can.

Biggie is lining himself up for his post career in Winnipeg which is a very different situation. In that case he will take one for the team for longer term prospects after his playing career. Not all players have this kind of oppourtunity on the team or the city they play for unfortunately. It's just a fact!

Hold outs have happened forever in pro sports and other business. Nothing new even though I don't like them. All I know is if you miss two+ more weeks on a holdout or strike you ALMOST NEVER Make that money back which you have lost. So it's a gamble. It better pay off big time or you have just cost yourself some cash for your future you will NEVER get back most of the time. 

[Jesse]

If there's no law against contract changes in-season, then nothing to stop them now.  Purely voluntary (well, FIFO will kick in if a couple big names do it first, but no management coercion).

It's actually brilliant because if you're Kenny starting yet another season missing 8+ games, don't you have a pang of guilt that you may not be earning all of your league-best salary?  Why not give a miniscule little back to the team to return mid-season to a .750 team instead of a .250 team??  Same for unprecedented-salary-holdout WM-had-to-step-in-it-was-so-preposterous Brady?

It just needs someone to draw up the math, have the vet signing name idea in hand, and present the option.  If they all hate the idea, great, forget it and have fun with the 4th stringers botching every 3rd play.

No law against it.

Just no real benefit either.

[Blue In BC]

Your narrative, not a single person in the world thought keeping Brown over Collaros going younger and saving SMS was a good idea for the future.

My narrative, yes people did. 

You , I want their names or it's not true and they don't exist. And you continue this circular argument.

Let's move on.  Believe what you want.  It's all good.

Friday the rubber will hit the road, let's see what they have.  It's going to be an interesting night at the stadium.  Can't wait to get there.  An upset over BC would be awesome. 

I never said some people didn't make the argument to keep Brown and move away from Collaros.  They made reasonable arguments as did the larger group suggesting it was a bad idea.

There are some very long term knowledgeable posters on this forum.

Our argument is not circular. Your argument is trying to make the minority position as the right decision with the language you choose. Claims of " people I know " etc etc. All of your posts are to bash the team and or Collaros.

Go figure.

[Blue In BC]

We also have to be extremely careful and strategic in how we take the non-ELCs off of the 6GIR... we will almost certainly go over-cap again if we take Kenny, Lawson and Parker and maybe even Haba off the 6G after 5 weeks...

I think for once we really will be stuck leaving many guys on the 6G for the full 6+.

That reminds me, after the 6 is up, do they go on another full 6 or can we pull them with full SMS savings in (say) week 8?

And why on earth would we put any player who was going to be out for 2+ weeks on the 1GIR?  Like Brady.  Why wouldn't we just put everyone on the 6G?  What if what we think is 2 weeks for Brady turns into 6.  Then we get the royal shaft in terms of SMS.

Is there a downside to 6G'ing everyone?

Already, in hindsight, Brady probably should have been on the 6G coming out of TC.

A team can never be certain how long an injury will last. It could be more than 1 week and less than 6 weeks. A player can't practice until after 5 weeks on the 6 game IR.

At this point we aren't sure Brady will play this week, or next for that matter. Daily IR reports early may give us more info but we certainly don't want to rush him back.

Bighill was only on the 6 game IR for 1 game. I'm not sure if 1 game IR is available within the rules during TC.

[Road Griller]

I never said some people didn't make the argument to keep Brown and move away from Collaros.  They made reasonable arguments as did the larger group suggesting it was a bad idea.

There are some very long term knowledgeable posters on this forum.

Our argument is not circular. Your argument is trying to make the minority position as the right decision with the language you choose. Claims of " people I know " etc etc. All of your posts are to bash the team and or Collaros.

Go figure.

You didn't, blue for life did and that's who I was replying to post 36, not that it matters. The subsequent post I quoted was since removed.

Anyway, yes there are knowledgeable posters here.  No question.

Some even attend every game live, record and watch the game the next night going over thing they seen the night before and breaking down what they witnessed.

Some have for years, along with watching every other CFL and assessing their every play.  Heck, that could be me?  You never know.

Some of he best discussions happen in the tailgate areas prior to the games, high level coaches, players who have played at a high level.  Some of the best are the 30-40+ year old timers who have seen it all.

We all want the same thing, long term Bomber success.

Trust me, there were people who wanted to go the Brown route and had very good reasons why.  Unfortunately it may just playing out in front of our eyes. We have an ace in hole in Streveler, maybe we should use him.  Couldn't hurt to try for a series/two or even a quarter at this point.

Make teams prepare for both styles of QB's every week and keep them guessing all game.  Why not?  Can't keep burning games early on, the L's are piling up.  Time to stop being stubborn and think inside the box.

[Blueforlife]

Your narrative, not a single person in the world thought keeping Brown over Collaros going younger and saving SMS was a good idea for the future.

My narrative, yes people did. 

You , I want their names or it's not true and they don't exist. And you continue this circular argument.

Let's move on.  Believe what you want.  It's all good.

Friday the rubber will hit the road, let's see what they have.  It's going to be an interesting night at the stadium.  Can't wait to get there.  An upset over BC would be awesome. 

My narrative is not what you stated it is, it was simply in response to you claiming that great football minds indicated they would have moved on from Collaros in favor of Brown.  What to do with Brown was a hot debate last season on the forum.  That's now water under the bridge.  To be clear I wanted to keep Brown and would have signed him during season (at least tried) for a reasonable salary.  I doubt that was realistic as he likely wanted more than we could afford and wanted to start.  I was amazed at the players we did sign and ended up happy with what management was able to do with the cap space we had.

Good idea to move on, thanks for that.  I'll no longer bring the issue up.  Yes Fri is a key game and will be telling.  Equally excited.  Go Blue!

[Blue In BC]

You didn't, blue for life did and that's who I was replying to post 36, not that it matters. The subsequent post I quoted was since removed.

Anyway, yes there are knowledgeable posters here.  No question.

Some even attend every game live, record and watch the game the next night going over thing they seen the night before and breaking down what they witnessed.

Some have for years, along with watching every other CFL and assessing their every play.  Heck, that could be me?  You never know.

Some of he best discussions happen in the tailgate areas prior to the games, high level coaches, players who have played at a high level.  Some of the best are the 30-40+ year old timers who have seen it all.

We all want the same thing, long term Bomber success.

Trust me, there were people who wanted to go the Brown route and had very good reasons why.  Unfortunately it may just playing out in front of our eyes. We have an ace in hole in Streveler, maybe we should use him.  Couldn't hurt to try for a series/two or even a quarter at this point.

Make teams prepare for both styles of QB's every week and keep them guessing all game.  Why not?  Can't keep burning game early on, the L's are piling up.  Time to stop being stubborn and think inside the box.

I record every Bomber game and re-watch it the next day. Then I may watch it again as the season progresses or during the off season. I have over 230 games from 1985 - 2005 recorded on VHS that I sent to the Bombers in 2006 to record onto DVD's for the use of past players.

I live in Vancouver so I haven't been to a Bomber game in Winnipeg since 1963!! That's a disadvantage to posters that get to go to some practice sessions or most games at home.

Succession planning of older players happens every year. There were those that balked at not re-signing A. Harris. As it turns out we wouldn't have had the emergence of Brady and saved some SMS as well. OTOH, A. Harris played a role in our defeat in the 2022 Grey Cup.

I like Brown and understand the thought. We won't know how it plays out until later in the year. As I said, QB's get too much grief when losing and too much credit when winning. Last year I mentioned I thought we over paid to keep Collaros at the expense of other players. That's still my position whether he is winning or losing.

Honestly I don't think other teams need to prepare for Streveler. He's not a prolific passer and he's certainly not a better passer than Collaros.

Put him in the game earlier and / or a few more times is not the worst idea. However very few teams do that anymore even if they have a good # 2. There are pros and cons and it depends on field position and game situation.

Broadcasters have even mentioned many teams are using their # 1  QB on short yardage lately. That's risky but seems to be current trend.

[Road Griller]

Honestly I don't think other teams need to prepare for Streveler. He's not a prolific passer and he's certainly not a better passer than Collaros.

Put him in the game earlier and / or a few more times is not the worst idea. However very few teams do that anymore even if they have a good # 2. There are pros and cons and it depends on field position and game situation.

Broadcasters have even mentioned many teams are using their # 1  QB on short yardage lately. That's risky but seems to be current trend.

You need to make it out to a game, it's been way to long!

We have not seen Streveler run the number one offence since 2019.  The 'he can't throw' argument doesn't hold water right now. There is no way working with the NFL  QB coaches  along with maturing has not improved his game.

We witnessed a raw Streveler in 2019 and he was still pretty good for his inexperience.  The smart money says he is much improved. Just needs a chance, 10 RPO downs a game minimum. 

Heck, give him the first three series of the game at home.  The D will be off guard and scramble to adjust then throw Zach in to throw them off again.  He is not doing Zach any favours right now, teams are teeing off on him.  He won't last the season at this rate anyway.

MOS used to be creative when he was a ST coach, he needs to go back to those days. 

[theaardvark]

I was one of the people who suggested keeping Brown and trading Collaros.  That was a very plausible option.

Just for reference, the Bombers have madea  very similar move this year.

To prevent a very good asset from moving to another team, they promoted him and shelved a HOF asset.

Yes, I'm talking about Younger/Hall.

So, they did not want to lose someone that could be the future of the team, and in doing so, moved on from a huge talent that has served the team well, bringing the team for 4 GC's in a row.

Was moving on from Zach an option?

Definitely.

Was moving on from Hall the best idea?

We will see.

[Blue In BC]

You need to make it out to a game, it's been way to long!

We have not seen Streveler run the number one offence since 2019.  The 'he can't throw' argument doesn't hold water right now. There is no way working with the NFL  QB coaches  along with maturing has not improved his game.

We witnessed a raw Streveler in 2019 and he was still pretty good for his inexperience.  The smart money says he is much improved. Just needs a chance, 10 RPO downs a game minimum. 

Heck, give him the first three series of the game at home.  The D will be off guard and scramble to adjust then throw Zach in to throw them off again.  He is not doing Zach any favours right now, teams are teeing off on him.  He won't last the season at this rate anyway.

MOS used to be creative when he was a ST coach, he needs to go back to those days. 

Streveler may have improved but he's yet to throw a pass in a regular season game. In the 1st pre season game he was so so. I'd disagree that the " he can't throw " doesn't hold water isn't correct until he proves he can be can.

NFL stats 27 of 40 for 231 yards with a 5.8 yard average.

It's catch 22. He has to have success / show success but he has to have more opportunity to do that. Until that happens it's just a debate.

Again the CFL doesn't use a two QB system very often unless they are playing rookies and trying to make a choice.

Most posters probably can't even name the # 2 QB on other teams. SMS reality is teams live and die with their # 1 QB.

[Blueforlife]

I was one of the people who suggested keeping Brown and trading Collaros.  That was a very plausible option.

Just for reference, the Bombers have madea  very similar move this year.

To prevent a very good asset from moving to another team, they promoted him and shelved a HOF asset.

Yes, I'm talking about Younger/Hall.

So, they did not want to lose someone that could be the future of the team, and in doing so, moved on from a huge talent that has served the team well, bringing the team for 4 GC's in a row.

Was moving on from Zach an option?

Definitely.

Was moving on from Hall the best idea?

We will see.

We didn't move on from Hall we kept him around so we did lose Younger. Much different situation as there was no way to keep both Brown and Zack.

Streveler may have improved but he's yet to throw a pass in a regular season game. In the 1st pre season game he was so so. I'd disagree that the " he can't throw " doesn't hold water isn't correct until he proves he can be can.

NFL stats 27 of 40 for 231 yards with a 5.8 yard average.

It's catch 22. He has to have success / show success but he has to have more opportunity to do that. Until that happens it's just a debate.

Again the CFL doesn't use a two QB system very often unless they are playing rookies and trying to make a choice.

Most posters probably can't even name the # 2 QB on other teams. SMS reality is teams live and die with their # 1 QB.

Strev can throw a short route reasonably well. He has never shown the ability to throw medium to deep routes.  I would expect him to perform reasonably well if needed but our offense would adjust to his skills.

[Road Griller]

Streveler may have improved but he's yet to throw a pass in a regular season game. In the 1st pre season game he was so so. I'd disagree that the " he can't throw " doesn't hold water isn't correct until he proves he can be can.

NFL stats 27 of 40 for 231 yards with a 5.8 yard average.

It's catch 22. He has to have success / show success but he has to have more opportunity to do that. Until that happens it's just a debate.

Again the CFL doesn't use a two QB system very often unless they are playing rookies and trying to make a choice.

Most posters probably can't even name the # 2 QB on other teams. SMS reality is teams live and die with their # 1 QB.

It would be nice to find out where he is at, his NFL competition percentage is better than Zachs recent 40 throws.  In a muncher tougher league.

Pre season really means nothing especially because MOS didn't play anyone with him.  A real missed  opportunity IMO .  Even so he looked pretty comfortable.

Something has to give, people can't blanket statement that he can't throw in the CFL with the first team.  There is no sample size since 2019.  Zero.

We do know the 2019 spin, scramble , evade game winning end zone toss to Darvin Adams days are behind Zach.  He is not that player anymore.

Maybe Streveler can move the pocket, evade the rush and make that toss?  We know who can't.  Seems to be a pick or a sack these days.

Friday could be a rough outing, it's a young crowd and they all love Streveler and want to see him play. A slow start would not be good.  Need to come out firing on all cylinders.