Will Kelly play again?

[Waffler]

If you had a meeting with him, he had done his counseling but you still got the feeling he was just playing along, what would you do? You would want the last chance clause.

[Pete]

Kelly being reinstated seems fair, hes done what they asked. My issue remains with the Argo mgmt.At every turn they've said and done what they could to support Kelly, At no time have I felt they showed compassion ti the victim. If I was a female still working in that enviroment I doubt I'd be happy

[Jesse]

If you had a meeting with him, he had done his counseling but you still got the feeling he was just playing along, what would you do? You would want the last chance clause.

The people saying that it was a "greasy" tactic by the CFL (even though we have no evidence that Kelly did not have prior knowledge of the last chance deal), are the exact same people who were defending Kelly in the first place (because we didn't have evidence of his misdeeds).

So when they need the evidence in one case, but do not need evidence in the second case, I think we can just go ahead and assume they're not really having this discussion in good faith.

[Blue In BC]

It comes down to credibility. If someone has a single DUI and does time in re-hab and promises to not do it again, he may have some. OTOH how many times did he not get caught.

If he was charged and convicted multiple times, should he have his license revoked and / or for how long? There is a long history of those convicted of that and being caught DUI again driving without either a license or insurance.

Kelly has an extensive history of inappropriate activity. How many more times did it happen that someone didn't come forward.

This doesn't just wash away with some re-hab time. Just look at some of the rich and powerful celebrities that continue to have multiple incidence of repeating previous issues.

Is it possible Kelly learned something this time around? It's possible. We'll see.

[TBURGESS]

If you had a meeting with him, he had done his counseling but you still got the feeling he was just playing along, what would you do? You would want the last chance clause.

I would have told him that the last chance clause would be part of reinstating him when they suspended him.

We don't know that. We're not talking about the Pope here.

Are you saying it's ok to use greasy tactics as long as it's not the pope?

The people saying that it was a "greasy" tactic by the CFL (even though we have no evidence that Kelly did not have prior knowledge of the last chance deal), are the exact same people who were defending Kelly in the first place (because we didn't have evidence of his misdeeds).

So when they need the evidence in one case, but do not need evidence in the second case, I think we can just go ahead and assume they're not really having this discussion in good faith.

If Kelly had prior knowledge, there would be no reason for him not to sign it right away.

BTW: I don't think making people take mandated courses changes their behavior. One has to want to change in the first place.

[Blue In BC]

I would have told him that the last chance clause would be part of reinstating him when they suspended him. Are you saying it's ok to use greasy tactics as long as it's not the pope?If Kelly had prior knowledge, there would be no reason for him not to sign it right away.

BTW: I don't think making people take mandated courses changes their behavior. One has to want to change in the first place.

I'm saying I don't think it was a greasy situation. Kelly was suspended for a minimum nine games. He would have known it was going to take a lot to get an entirely clean slate. He knew there was going to be a review and questions asked.

I do agree that people that take mandated courses probably don't change their behaviour.

[pdirks67]

Kelly being reinstated seems fair, hes done what they asked. My issue remains with the Argo mgmt.At every turn they've said and done what they could to support Kelly, At no time have I felt they showed compassion ti the victim. If I was a female still working in that enviroment I doubt I'd be happy

100%. I have two adult daughters. I can't imagine them working in an organization where leadership acted this way. I get that it would be very difficult to throw a potential MVP QB overboard, but they really did the worst possible job during this whole scandal. It's not like Kelly's actions could have gone unnoticed by team officials.

If this happened in Winnipeg, do you think that the FIFO culture would have nipped this in the bud? For example, someone like Bighill taking the player aside and reading him the riot act? I'd like to think so, but who knows.

[J5V]

100%. I have two adult daughters. I can't imagine them working in an organization where leadership acted this way. I get that it would be very difficult to throw a potential MVP QB overboard, but they really did the worst possible job during this whole scandal. It's not like Kelly's actions could have gone unnoticed by team officials.

If this happened in Winnipeg, do you think that the FIFO culture would have nipped this in the bud? For example, someone like Bighill taking the player aside and reading him the riot act? I'd like to think so, but who knows.

Exactly and I hope people are getting a glimpse of the real Pinball Clemons now. His handling of this issue has been very suspect right from the beginning. I always suspected he was a phoney, I still can't stand listening to him, and now I am convinced. It tarnishes the whole organisation and is a black eye to the league. NO WAY would I ever want either of my two daughters to work there after this debacle.

[ichabod_crane]

100%. I have two adult daughters. I can't imagine them working in an organization where leadership acted this way. I get that it would be very difficult to throw a potential MVP QB overboard, but they really did the worst possible job during this whole scandal. It's not like Kelly's actions could have gone unnoticed by team officials.

If this happened in Winnipeg, do you think that the FIFO culture would have nipped this in the bud? For example, someone like Bighill taking the player aside and reading him the riot act? I'd like to think so, but who knows.

So you seem to think if this woman worked elsewhere the harassment rules and punishments would be totally different? I doubt that very much. Also two sides to every story ALWAYS and if these are the HR harassment rules in place, it is what is is. There NEVER was a trial to bare all the facts and make a complete judgment too.

He has a LEGAL right to return to work as it stands. I will agree it would be very uncomfortable if that woman still worked there and I'm sure she could have a restraining order or what not in place if she had to. Maybe she still has one anyway against Kelly.

This is not always crystal clear how these policies play out. I'm sure they have told him a second incident and he is toast. He was punished although some people may disagree if it was enough or not. Now he must live with that rep though and some players on his team may have lost all respect for him. Don't think the punishment ends the moment he slips the Argos jersey back on unless there is a LOT OF JERKS elsewhere with the Argos.

Bleeding heart Liberals ALWAYS think anyone can be reformed, but reality shows this is not always the case. Hence some of our sappy criminal laws and so on are a farce if you ask me. Sorry to get political, but this seems like very obvious nonsense some politicians and "social engineers" like to peddle with psycho babble ideas. Looks nice in theory, but in reality a very different situation

[pdirks67]

So you seem to think if this woman worked elsewhere the harassment rules and punishments would be totally different?

No, I think the rules would be very similar. It was the response that would be different and I was agreeing with the previous poster who said "At every turn they've said and done what they could to support Kelly, At no time have I felt they showed compassion ti the victim."

To this point, I think that you'd be hard-pressed to find and organization that wouldn't do a heck of a lot more to support the victim here. I'm retired, but as a former manager at a large organization, I can tell you 100% that the Argos approach to this matter was completely out of keeping with best practices.

Also two sides to every story ALWAYS and if these are the HR harassment rules in place, it is what is is. There NEVER was a trail to bare all the facts and make a complete judgment too.

My understanding is that the worst of the allegations were found to be true? I don't think that anyone is currently disputing the relevant facts?
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-independent-investigation-corroborates-three-of-six-allegations-against-chad-kelly-1.2118960

Bleeding heart Liberals ALWAYS think anyone can be reformed, but reality shows this is not always the case. Hence some of our sappy criminal laws and so on are a farce if you ask me. Sorry to get political, but this seems like very obvious nonsense some politicians and "social engineers" like to peddle with psycho babble ideas. Looks nice in theory, but in reality a very different situation

I'm not sure that Kelly is reformed, but I doubt it. I probably am a bleeding heart liberal, but I certainly wouldn't claim that his punishment did anything of the sort. If anything, it hopefully scared him into keeping his harrassment out of the workplace.

[Blue In BC]

So you seem to think if this woman worked elsewhere the harassment rules and punishments would be totally different? I doubt that very much. Also two sides to every story ALWAYS and if these are the HR harassment rules in place, it is what is is. There NEVER was a trail to bare all the facts and make a complete judgment too.

He has a LEGAL right to return to work as it stands. I will agree it would be very uncomfortable if that woman still worked there and I'm sure she could have a restraining order or what not in place if she had to. Maybe she still has one anyway against Kelly.

This is not always crystal clear how these policies play out. I'm sure they have told him a second incident and he is toast. He was punished although some people may disagree if it was enough or not. Now he must live with that rep though and some players on his team may have lost all disrespect for him. Don't think the punishment ends the moment he slips the Argos jersey back on unless there is a LOT OF JERKS elsewhere with the Argos.

Bleeding heart Liberals ALWAYS think anyone can be reformed, but reality shows this is not always the case. Hence some of our sappy criminal laws and so on are a farce if you ask me. Sorry to get political, but this seems like very obvious nonsense some politicians and "social engineers" like to peddle with psycho babble ideas. Looks nice in theory, but in reality a very different situation

IIRC there were 6 separate complaints.

Also note that he was punished but got $300K more or less advance money to not play.  That doesn't qualify as punished to me.

[ichabod_crane]

My understanding is that the worst of the allegations were found to be true? I don't think that anyone is currently disputing the relevant facts?
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-independent-investigation-corroborates-three-of-six-allegations-against-chad-kelly-1.2118960

It was an inquiry that was done, not a trial. No oath in place that I am aware if. Only legal documents were signed for evidence and claims. Can make up anything in an inquiry if no legal obligations around it.

[/quote]
I'm not sure that Kelly is reformed, but I doubt it. I probably am a bleeding heart liberal, but I certainly wouldn't claim that his punishment did anything of the sort. If anything, it hopefully scared him into keeping his harassment out of the workplace.
[/quote]

Well we can only hope, but dirtbags can take a LONG TIME to reform their ways. Probably needs anger management training beyond mere feel good country club counselling.

[Jesse]

It was an inquiry that was done, not a trial. No oath in place that I am aware if. Only legal documents were signed for evidence and claims. Can make up anything in an inquiry if no legal obligations around it.

Can make up anything anytime.

But the allegations were all in front of witnesses and through text messages so the inquiry was pretty fruitful, I gather.

[TecnoGenius]

So, who's the babysitter?  The team would be dumb to not have one.

[TecnoGenius]

IIRC there were 6 separate complaints.

Also note that he was punished but got $300K more or less advance money to not play.  That doesn't qualify as punished to me.

IIRC 3 of the complaints were found to not have enough evidence in the Regina P.I. report.

The dude lost half the year of game cheques: that's got to be at least $100k.  Let me tell you that if someone came here and took $100k from me, I'd feel punished!!  Do you know what kind of actual crimes you have to commit to get even a $15k fine from the criminal justice system?!  $100k would be considered "cruel and unusual" for personal, non-financial crimes.