Will Kelly play again?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Tecno I agree with a lot of what you say.  I also agree that a DUI is not trivial.  I haven't read your breakdown of what happened, I didn't know that is somewhere and I would like to read it.  Serious question - how sure are you of the facts?  From what you are saying Kelly didn't do a whole lot, which sure doesn't seem to be consistent with the outcome (which may be the point you are making).

I am no fan of "woke" culture, at least not the cancel version of it.  However, from all the history of Kelly in college and nfl, it would be hard to give him the benefit of the doubt with this transgression. 

I could be wrong, and like others have said, I do hope he has actually learned and changed this time.

It's been statistically proven people change over time, highest rate of criminal activity in males is 20-26, it drops off significantly once a person reaches 30.  This is closely correlated to alcohol consumption and the diminishment of party mode once past 30. Chad needs to settle down with one girlfriend or a wife, extending party mode into ones 30's usually ends in addiction or death.

[Big Daddy]

It's been statistically proven people change over time, highest rate of criminal activity in males is 20-26, it drops off significantly once a person reaches 30.  This is closely correlated to alcohol consumption and the diminishment of party mode once past 30. Chad needs to settle down with one girlfriend or a wife, extending party mode into ones 30's usually ends in addiction or death.

Fair points - I'll take your word for the stats you are quoting, I've seen many, many exceptions to these stats but I believe you that the odds are in favor of growth/improvement.

Again I hope he is improving, for his own sake.

[Big Daddy]

On another note, I don't think there has been anything other than armchair speculation about Kelly's mental health or diagnoses.  I haven't seen anything objective supporting that he is on the spectrum of autism.

One could easily make the case for sociopathy being relevant.  I'm not saying that is the case as I've never spoken to him nor seen his medical history, but I doubt anyone here has either.

[TecnoGenius]

Tecno I agree with a lot of what you say.  I also agree that a DUI is not trivial.  I haven't read your breakdown of what happened, I didn't know that is somewhere and I would like to read it.  Serious question - how sure are you of the facts?  From what you are saying Kelly didn't do a whole lot, which sure doesn't seem to be consistent with the outcome (which may be the point you are making).

I could be wrong, and like others have said, I do hope he has actually learned and changed this time.

Found it.  It was the older thread, not this one, sorry.

http://forums.bluebombers.com/index.php?topic=55540.msg1621104#msg1621104

You can read the tsn.ca article linked therein, then read my dissection of it.  Read it all and see what you think.

The media does what the media does with lying by omission.  They don't mention anywhere ever the facts that the tsn.ca article did, and even in that article they don't put 2 & 2 together and try to frame things in the worst possible way.  The fact that you said what you said above proves that the media is pushing a certain narrative and the average fan just thinks Kelly was doing something much worse, like physically abusing someone.

I'm not defending Kelly, he's a piece of work.  But I hate the process in these situations, and I can see how he might feel shafted at every turn.  Life isn't fair.  So I guess the moral of the story is don't get into any trouble to begin with, because they will crucify you.

One day, maybe after 5 years of GC wins and being the poster child for the Boy Scouts, the league & media will change their tune and laud Kelly as fully reformed and neutered.  At that time they may finally just come out and say what I deduced in that post.

[TecnoGenius]

Chad needs to settle down with one girlfriend or a wife, extending party mode into ones 30's usually ends in addiction or death.

The best thing Kelly could ever do is marry a hard-nosed wife who is basically his opposite (complementary couple).  Of course, that's not usually the type these guys go after.  But it would do wonders for his career and image.

[TecnoGenius]

On another note, I don't think there has been anything other than armchair speculation about Kelly's mental health or diagnoses.  I haven't seen anything objective supporting that he is on the spectrum of autism.

One could easily make the case for sociopathy being relevant.  I'm not saying that is the case as I've never spoken to him nor seen his medical history, but I doubt anyone here has either.

100% we all should outright say we have no clue on his mental diagnoses.  However, some (many?) of us know spectrum or sociopathic people and we can see in him what we see in them.  I have a close in-law who is spectrum (diagnosed, legally and documented) without any outward signs... until you start to interact with him.  He's basically Kelly.  No clue as to what is appropriate or what is "too far", and everything is awkward.  That's my basis (however weak) for guessing "spectrum" for Kelly.

I also had a close friend who was sociopathic.  I don't think that's Kelly.  While the possible narcissism hints at it, so many other things are missing: like being exceptionally smart and manipulative.  Kelly seems rather low IQ for a QB, and doesn't look like he could manipulate his way out of a paper bag.

A sociopath would have handled all of this much more subtly and aptly, and probably gotten away with it.

If he is spectrum, we have to acknowledge some of this may not be his fault, in a legal or even moral sense.  He may truly have a difficult or impossible time understanding why you don't do what he does.  Not an excuse, but something to consider.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Interview with Chad Kelly after he won the GC in 2022, he seems fairly intelligent and reasonably sharp.

[theaardvark]

Uh, in my opinion a DUI is far worse than what Kelly did.  A DUI has the capacity to kill someone.  Kelly never laid a finger on anyone and no one was ever in any physical peril.  And a DUI is a criminal offense that can land you in court and jail.  Kelly just broke a nebulous, modern "code of conduct" that didn't even exist 25 years ago -- at worst a civil infraction (i.e. show me the money!).

A DUI as a pattern of behaviour, sure.  I will agree with you.  But as a one off, where no one was injured, it's a mistake that our society allows to be made, and a learning moment that rarely gets repeated unles there are underlying issues.

Kelly has a problem, a serious problem that keeps coming up.  A "Last Chance" option is not something that comes after a mistake, but rather after a lifetime of issues.

[blue_gold_84]

Uh, in my opinion a DUI is far worse than what Kelly did.  A DUI has the capacity to kill someone.  Kelly never laid a finger on anyone and no one was ever in any physical peril.  And a DUI is a criminal offense that can land you in court and jail.  Kelly just broke a nebulous, modern "code of conduct" that didn't even exist 25 years ago -- at worst a civil infraction (i.e. show me the money!).

There's nothing modern about the social code of treating others respectfully.

Kelly harassed a colleague in his workplace - repeatedly. Just because it wasn't physical in nature doesn't change what he did or lessen the severity of it.

Harassment can absolutely be a criminal offense. And just like a DUI, harassment has the capacity to cause harm.

[Jesse]

100% we all should outright say we have no clue on his mental diagnoses.

You should really have just stopped here. We're not qualified and we have no interactions with the person.

[TecnoGenius]

There's nothing modern about the social code of treating others respectfully.

Kelly harassed a colleague in his workplace - repeatedly.

Disingenuous saying "colleague".  If he had treated one of his co-players that way, no one would ever have said boo, because yelling and name calling happens every day in a locker room.  This whole issue blew up because the trainer was a woman.  Hence, the "he violated the gender based violence policy".

Just because it wasn't physical in nature doesn't change what he did or lessen the severity of it.

Disingenuous.  Yes it does.  If it was physical he'd be facing criminal charges.

If we try to equate words to physical violence, then we minimize the plight of those who face the far worse physical violence.

Harassment can absolutely be a criminal offense.

Disingenuous.  Kelly's harassment did not rise to the level of criminality.  Sure, if he keeps doing it after she gets a restraining order, then you have something.  But that's not the case here.

And just like a DUI, harassment has the capacity to cause harm.

Disingenuous.  Conflating mental/emotional with physical harm.  And if you mean he escalates into physical, then that becomes a separate, actual/worse, crime.  But it didn't, so it doesn't.

Why is there the need to muddy and conflate and confuse.  Why do we need to make Kelly's infraction sound worse than it was?  It minimizes the harm sufferers of real violence experienced, and it's also not fair to the perpetrators.

[Big Daddy]

Disingenuous.  Conflating mental/emotional with physical harm.  And if you mean he escalates into physical, then that becomes a separate, actual/worse, crime.  But it didn't, so it doesn't.


[/quote]

I'm sorry Tecno, but this part is wrong.  Mental/emotional harm can be every bit as damaging as physical harm, and sometimes more so. 

Minimizing mental/emotional damage is not helpful for our military personnel suffering from PTSD, and indeed anyone struggling with this.  I'm sure you are not intending to do that, so I'm just clarifying this point.

[1chad]

Ok so some guy, Kelly, makes a "pass" (a verbal comment of a nature possibly being complimentary) and she turns. Itndown.
Kelly persists because he likes her.
Eventually his frustration takes over
He then tells his buddies she is a *****.

I have seen that type of scenarios by young men chasing a woman before in school before.
It's an immature response to being rebuked by a young usually successful guy.

I thought that was called flirting.

What you call persistence, I call harassment. Asking someone out, calling, texting over and over and over in a workplace environment where the target has said "no" over and over and over is, at the very least, unprofessional. It becomes harassment when you do not stop, and when you don't get your desired result, you denigrate the other person to other co-workers and staff.

[ModAdmin]

This topic has been discussed sufficiently to close this thread as Kelly has been reinstated regardless of anyone's opinion.

He is a playing member of the Argos so lets keep comments directed to his field performances.  If he re-offends we know what the outcome will be.  Thanks.