Will Kelly play again?

[Jesse]

One question - where is John Murphy in all this?  Has he just flown under the radar?

I know this is specifically about Kelly, but Murphy is a big part of this as well.

Murphy had an obligation to report this to the CFL, and as far as we know, he did not.

But if Murphy denied that he he was told, that may have been as far as it went. After it was settled, everyone just hopes this all blows over as soon as possible.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I get the reason for the hate but I actually hope it's the opposite. I've made plenty of bad choices in my life. Different but ones I wish I could take back. I'm sure most of us have. I hope he's sincere and that the education he received (and continues to receive) actually makes a difference. I hope he succeeds in his personal growth. The CFL is made for redemption stories. We have several fan favorites on our team who have made poor choices at points in their life. I've got no patience for those who aren't trying to do better but I've got open mind and lots of patience for those that are.

[blue_gold_84]

He hasn't grown. He seems pretty incorrigible.

Ten years ago (college): https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/10782554/clemson-tigers-dismiss-qb-chad-kelly-conduct-detrimental-team

Six years ago (NFL): https://www.nfl.com/news/chad-kelly-released-by-broncos-day-after-arrest-0ap3000000977922

Five years ago (NFL): https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-suspends-colts-chad-kelly-two-games

Some people are beyond redemption and I don't think he's an exception in that regard.

He's had roughly a decade to better himself and seemingly hasn't. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

[bomb squad]

Sometimes hating on someone turns into entertainment. Hope that hasn't happened here.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I get the reason for the hate but I actually hope it's the opposite. I've made plenty of bad choices in my life. Different but ones I wish I could take back. I'm sure most of us have. I hope he's sincere and that the education he received (and continues to receive) actually makes a difference. I hope he succeeds in his personal growth. The CFL is made for redemption stories. We have several fan favorites on our team who have made poor choices at points in their life. I've got no patience for those who aren't trying to do better but I've got open mind and lots of patience for those that are.

He's paid a heavy price which came right out of his own pocket, the fact he took the CFL punishment without fleeing to another league/country never to return, or fight the CFL in court, shows he realizes the CFL is now his best or only opportunity to earn bigger money. He's not a complete idiot so I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't keep a low profile and keep his off-field shenanigans to a minimum.

[Jesse]

Sometimes hating on someone turns into entertainment. Hope that hasn't happened here.

I think it's a case of we place a lot of value in the CFL and want what's best for the league. Personally, I think Kelly is a negative on our league and would prefer if he wasn't a part of it.

[theaardvark]

He's paid a heavy price which came right out of his own pocket, the fact he took the CFL punishment without fleeing to another league/country never to return, or fight the CFL in court, shows he realizes the CFL is now his best or only opportunity to earn bigger money. He's not a complete idiot so I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't keep a low profile and keep his off-field shenanigans to a minimum.

Yes, he realizes this is his last chance, hence the Last Chance" clause in his reprieve.

He has to be on his best behaviour to stay.

But that's the issue.  If he has to make sure he doesn't do crappy things to people just to keep his job, then he hasn't advanced / evolved.  He's still the same DB, but with a filter on.  And that is NOT the idea of "retraining".

A leopard ain't gonna change his spots.  He's just a ticking time bomb waiting to go off again.  We see it all the time.  Manzeil is a prime example.  How many chances did HE get?

Again, Pinball tied his cart to this horse, who has done nothing but bring strife and conflict to the team, when he was supposed to help fill the stadium.  There should be busses coming from Buffalo to Argo's games.  instead, Argos will actually have fans booing him as he takes the field, and who knows how many fans their enabling him has cost the Argos, as well as the negative gate effect he will have when the team is on the road.

There are so many better stories out there, so many better people to base a franchise around.  I am sure there were clauses in his contract that Pinball could have exercised to get out when the story first broke, but chose not to.

When (not if) he regresses and gets kicked out of the league, it eill be a much bigger black eye because the league allowed him to continue.

[pdirks67]

I'm OK with Kelly being reinstated. He served his "sentence" as served out by the league, and he's been told that he has no more chances. I'm sure he is still a complete jerk, but my feeling is that the league is right in giving him a last chance. Although, let's face it, if he was a backup import LB, he would have been released immediately. But that's the way the world works.

From the reporting, I find it difficult to believe that (apparently) no one - management, other coaches, or teammates - did anything to stop what was happening. Someone must have known, and pretty much everyone for sure did know after the screaming match. If not because of the ethical side, simply to tell Kelly that this could only end in a huge black eye both for him and the team.
Source: https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-independent-investigation-corroborates-three-of-six-allegations-against-chad-kelly-1.2118960

How would this have been handled if it happend in Winnipeg? We will hopefully never find out. I THINK that someone would have acted as a circuit breaker if they knew what was happening? Can anyone see O'Shea or Bighill not reading the riot act to the player at first knowledge?

Kelly started the journey, but it sure seems to me like the Argos culture failed to stop the journey.

[theaardvark]

I'm OK with Kelly being reinstated. He served his "sentence" as served out by the league, and he's been told that he has no more chances. I'm sure he is still a complete jerk, but my feeling is that the league is right in giving him a last chance. Although, let's face it, if he was a backup import LB, he would have been released immediately. But that's the way the world works.

From the reporting, I find it difficult to believe that (apparently) no one - management, other coaches, or teammates - did anything to stop what was happening. Someone must have known, and pretty much everyone for sure did know after the screaming match. If not because of the ethical side, simply to tell Kelly that this could only end in a huge black eye both for him and the team.
Source: https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-independent-investigation-corroborates-three-of-six-allegations-against-chad-kelly-1.2118960

How would this have been handled if it happend in Winnipeg? We will hopefully never find out. I THINK that someone would have acted as a circuit breaker if they knew what was happening? Can anyone see O'Shea or Bighill not reading the riot act to the player at first knowledge?

Kelly started the journey, but it sure seems to me like the Argos culture failed to stop the journey.

I don't think a player with that baggage makes it past first scrutiny here.  This team deals with issues quickly and decisively.

This was not a stupid bonehead mistake, like DUI or a social media misstep.  This was the repetition of a pattern of behaviour the CFL and its teams is actively marketing against.  The Argos are going to have to deal with fan reaction and even reaction within the team, especially if he shows rust and falters out of the gate.

[Big Daddy]

Murphy had an obligation to report this to the CFL, and as far as we know, he did not.

But if Murphy denied that he he was told, that may have been as far as it went. After it was settled, everyone just hopes this all blows over as soon as possible.

I guess I'm thinking of when this all broke, and the athletic therapist said when she told John Murphy that she confronted Kelly  about his behavior, Murphy told her she had "opened a can of worms that didn't need to be opened".  Not exactly a statement that is meant to be supportive and promoting a safe work environment.

The CFL and others clearly believed her about Kelly, and who know what all happened behind closed doors, but it seems as though Murphy's responsibility in all this has been swept under the carpet.

[DM83]

Ok so some guy, Kelly, makes a "pass" (a verbal comment of a nature possibly being complimentary) and she turns. Itndown.
Kelly persists because he likes her.
Eventually his frustration takes over
He then tells his buddies she is a *****.

I have seen that type of scenarios by young men chasing a woman before in school before.
It's an immature response to being rebuked by a young usually successful guy.

I thought that was called flirting.
In my opinion, a woman working in a formerly traditional men's workplace, will be subject to swearing, cursing nudity, and traditionally known as behavior common to a male locker room.
If you are offended by it, rather than recognizing it as common male behavior and locker room talk, then she should have removed herself from the organization voluntarily.

Yea yea sure sure, it may have been politically correct, in today's public.  But this wasn't meant for public consumption.  This was locker room talk.  And in many locker room situations, is perhaps more common than others. If they support the mantra, that they are all a family, perhaps the old motto, " what happens in the locker room, or Argo facility, stays within the club's domain"

Perhaps that was the situation, or something similar. 

I doubt any player would vocally embarrass the female, in public.

In one of my last years, we had a gorgeous Caribbean gal learning to be a "trainer" she was gorgeous and all business. She was far too gentle with my ankles, and I had to get my ankles taped by the more common veteran male trainer. I didn't flirt with any of them!

The gal went on to become a leader in the dance world.  I would guess she received tons of compliments from numerous people, based on her appearance, knowledge, encouragement, etc.

Young men aren't necessarily suave and sophisticated, and awkward attempts to impress her ( by offering to take her out) are certainly not initially sexual.

Certainly, if there was bodily contact, inappropriate touching and sexual assault, Kelly should be suspended.  The woman has apparently left the organization.

Kelly should not associate with any female in the Argos organization.

[TecnoGenius]

I think it's a case of we place a lot of value in the CFL and want what's best for the league. Personally, I think Kelly is a negative on our league and would prefer if he wasn't a part of it.

Imagine it's the 2024 GC in BC... Kelly gets MVP and is the first to hoist the cup... does everyone boo?  Does the league rob him of GC MVP even if he's clearly the MVP?

Interesting times!  Good thing TOR picked BMO Stadium for Kelly's first game back!  There's actually a chance he won't get booed.  TOR fans will be desperate for his return by this point.

[TecnoGenius]

This was not a stupid bonehead mistake, like DUI or a social media misstep.  This was the repetition of a pattern of behaviour the CFL and its teams is actively marketing against.

Uh, in my opinion a DUI is far worse than what Kelly did.  A DUI has the capacity to kill someone.  Kelly never laid a finger on anyone and no one was ever in any physical peril.  And a DUI is a criminal offense that can land you in court and jail.  Kelly just broke a nebulous, modern "code of conduct" that didn't even exist 25 years ago -- at worst a civil infraction (i.e. show me the money!).

[TecnoGenius]

Certainly, if there was bodily contact, inappropriate touching and sexual assault, Kelly should be suspended.  The woman has apparently left the organization.

Even though the press only ever says "Kelly broke rules in the CFL's Gender Based Violence Policy", Kelly committed no violence.  It wasn't even alleged.

Way earlier in the thread I broke down what seems to have happened based on the final reports and leaked information, go read that one, it's pretty long.  The worst "crime" was the lunch room tray floor-tossing, and I gave a great "how would you feel" explanation of that one, based on the fact that she accused him to his face of saying bad things it turned out he never said (as per the investigation).

He's an on-the-spectrum douche who can't take no and didn't know when to quit, and then acted like a sophomore in HS with (alleged) gossip and name-calling, and finally did the ol' fist-in-the-wall type thing with the tray when she accused him of something he didn't do.  That's basically it.

No, it's not acceptable.  Yes, he should be smarter.  This is 2024 and the woke mob has taken over everything and you have to be pretty dim not to play ball after you've signed a contract with a code of conduct.  When a female brushes you off once or twice nowadays you need to just stay away.  I'm not sure who doesn't get it at this point?

That said, it's very tame compared to 80's standards, and very tame compared to players who have broken actual laws, or compared to NFL players actually beating up ladies in elevators.

Kelly should not associate with any female in the Argos organization.

100%.  Like I said: babysitter.  You need a witness with and camera on Kelly at all times so a) he behaves and b) you have absolute proof of innocence if an unscrupulous lady tries to get a $400k payday (precedent has been set).

[Big Daddy]

Uh, in my opinion a DUI is far worse than what Kelly did.  A DUI has the capacity to kill someone.  Kelly never laid a finger on anyone and no one was ever in any physical peril.  And a DUI is a criminal offense that can land you in court and jail.  Kelly just broke a nebulous, modern "code of conduct" that didn't even exist 25 years ago -- at worst a civil infraction (i.e. show me the money!).

Tecno I agree with a lot of what you say.  I also agree that a DUI is not trivial.  I haven't read your breakdown of what happened, I didn't know that is somewhere and I would like to read it.  Serious question - how sure are you of the facts?  From what you are saying Kelly didn't do a whole lot, which sure doesn't seem to be consistent with the outcome (which may be the point you are making).

I am no fan of "woke" culture, at least not the cancel version of it.  However, from all the history of Kelly in college and nfl, it would be hard to give him the benefit of the doubt with this transgression. 

I could be wrong, and like others have said, I do hope he has actually learned and changed this time.