Schoen re-signs with Bombers

Started by VictorRomano, February 06, 2024, 08:08:03 PM

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wpg#1

GO BLUE BOMBERS GO !
COOL BEANS !

blue_gold_84

Love this news. Makes me wonder what discount, if any, he took to stay here.

Happy Tuesday, Bomber fans!
#forthew
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ModAdmin

Blue Bombers agree to terms with CFL All-Star receiver Dalton Schoen

WINNIPEG, MB., February 6, 2024 – The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce the club has agreed to terms on a on-year deal with all-star receiver Dalton Schoen.

Schoen was scheduled to become a free agent on February 13th.

Schoen (6-1, 210; Kansas State; born: October 13, 1996, in Overland Park, KS) returns to the Blue Bombers for a third season in 2024. In 34 games over 2022-23, Schoen racked up 141 receptions for 2,663 yards and 26 touchdowns while being named a West Division and CFL All-Star in each season.

Last year, Schoen had 71 receptions for 1,222 yards and 10 touchdowns, finishing third in the league in yardage, first in receiving touchdowns and third in second-down conversion catches with 30.

His rookie year of 2022 was one of the most prolific in CFL history as he led the league with 1,441 receiving yards on 70 receptions while tying for the league lead in touchdowns with 16. Those numbers helped him earn him the CFL's Most Outstanding Rookie honours.

Schoen's 1,441 yards in 2022 was the seventh-highest total in club history (Milt Stegall holds the club record of 1,896, set in 2002) and set a team record for touchdowns by a first-year Blue Bomber.

Schoen came to the Blue Bombers after first signing in the NFL as an undrafted free agent by the Los Angeles Chargers in 2020 and following looks from Kansas City and Washington.

Schoen was a walk-on at Kansas State, climbing up the depth chart to eventually start as a sophomore and become a key target over his final three years. He finished his college career ranked seventh in school history in yards per reception (17.05) and 15th in career receiving yards (1,569). He finished with 92 receptions for 1,569 yards and nine touchdowns over 34 games from 2017-2019.

He was a 2019 Honorable Mention All-Big 12 and a member of the First Team Academic All-Big 12 from 2017-19.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden

theaardvark

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 06, 2024, 08:10:19 PMLove this news. Makes me wonder what discount, if any, he took to stay here.

Happy Tuesday, Bomber fans!

Reported at 1 yr, $230k... 
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Blue In BC

Walters is doing his magic.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

GOLDMEMBER

#6
First Brady now Schoen pure bliss!

Offence should be quite dangerous yet again!
I LOSHT MY MEMBER IN AN UNFORTUNATE SHMELTING ACCSHIDENT!

LXTSN

I wonder how much of a discount Collaros, Lawler and Bryant took to get these young weapons re-signed?
Great news either way. I think we have some great, young and cheap canadians and imports on the roster. Regardless we are maxing out that salary cap!

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: theaardvark on February 06, 2024, 08:12:12 PMReported at 1 yr, $230k... 

Quite unbelievable, I would estimate Schoen left $30-$50k sitting on the table.

KINGCHARLES

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 06, 2024, 09:31:48 PMQuite unbelievable, I would estimate Schoen left $30-$50k sitting on the table.

Team player?
 Maybe there's going to be some extreme team healthy competition for who deserves that top dog/top WR money for 2025. Lawler and Schoen are only signed for 2024. Hypothetically if the Bombers have another highly succesful season they may find a way to keep both around. Demski will be in a fight in 2025 to prove he's stil the top Canadian WR and im guessing will be going for 1 more 2 year deal after 2025. If Demski puts up huge numbers in 2025....look out for big changes?
Keep in mind the CFL salary cap goes up another 100k in 2025 and another 100 k in 2026.
BEASTS OF THE EAST

I DON'T BRAKE FOR RIDER FANS

J5V

Go Bombers!

Lincoln Locomotive

our offence so far is intact other than signing Bailey who took a a pay cut to stay last season.   Not sure it will happen again though....and replacing Hardrick even if his play was declining somewhat is still a tall order.   
Bomber fan for life

Jesse

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 07, 2024, 12:21:59 PMour offence so far is intact other than signing Bailey who took a a pay cut to stay last season.   Not sure it will happen again though....and replacing Hardrick even if his play was declining somewhat is still a tall order.   

Our OL is down 2 starters right now.
My wife is amazing!

Lincoln Locomotive

Quote from: Jesse on February 07, 2024, 01:13:26 PMOur OL is down 2 starters right now.
Yes....it all starts with the O-line....it was inevitable that something had to give if we ended up signing either Brady or Dalton....or both.   Brady pretty much doubled his salary and Dalton is up 160K from his ELC contract.   Factor those numbers and the math is pretty simple and I'm wondering if Brady's production will be down from last season behind a very good run offensive line and scheme?   
Bomber fan for life

bluengold204

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 07, 2024, 01:46:36 PMYes....it all starts with the O-line....it was inevitable that something had to give if we ended up signing either Brady or Dalton....or both.   Brady pretty much doubled his salary and Dalton is up 160K from his ELC contract.   Factor those numbers and the math is pretty simple and I'm wondering if Brady's production will be down from last season behind a very good run offensive line and scheme?   

It most likely will be.  I also fear for Collaros as well.  He might be getting more smacked around this year then previous years

LXTSN

It should be easy enough to replace Gray if he were to leave, but replacing a solid right tackle will be tough. I think we put a lot of coaching into turning Richardson into a long term tackle but he retired.
Could Eli play tackle? He seems to be quicker than our other options right now. Would we be better off starting Ivy and bringing Eli off the bench to save a DI? (I'm still not great with the ratio game lol)

kkc60

Quote from: LXTSN on February 07, 2024, 02:27:53 PMIt should be easy enough to replace Gray if he were to leave, but replacing a solid right tackle will be tough. I think we put a lot of coaching into turning Richardson into a long term tackle but he retired.
Could Eli play tackle? He seems to be quicker than our other options right now. Would we be better off starting Ivy and bringing Eli off the bench to save a DI? (I'm still not great with the ratio game lol)
Eli is canadian, so there is no issue with him as a DI. I suppose Ivy could be a DI but last time we did that with an OL would be when we did it in Dru Browns season ending debut a couple years ago with Tyler Witt, and before that we used Devin Tyler as a DI OL when the OL was churning starters. I think it's far too early to speculate who our RT is. Free Agency hasn't kicked off, the draft & USFL cuts have not happened yet. Free agents like Landon Rice, Isaiah Cage or Colin Kelly could be nice insurance pieces if cheap enough

theaardvark

I have no issue with a rookie RT.  Far better a rookie American RT than a converted NAT moving out there.  In game injury replacement, Neufeld/Gray/Eli are fine.  But as a full time starter, I can't see us not being able to find an adequate American RT through scouting. 

With the rest of the Oline having worked as a unit for years, Collaros just has to start rolling left... ;)

Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Throw Long Bannatyne

#18
Quote from: theaardvark on February 07, 2024, 03:29:11 PMI have no issue with a rookie RT.  Far better a rookie American RT than a converted NAT moving out there.  In game injury replacement, Neufeld/Gray/Eli are fine.  But as a full time starter, I can't see us not being able to find an adequate American RT through scouting. 

With the rest of the Oline having worked as a unit for years, Collaros just has to start rolling left... ;)

There's that scary word again.


KINGCHARLES

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 07, 2024, 12:21:59 PMour offence so far is intact other than signing Bailey who took a a pay cut to stay last season.   Not sure it will happen again though....and replacing Hardrick even if his play was declining somewhat is still a tall order.   

Just watch Bailey go to the Riders too YUCK....I'm surprised he hasn't been offered a deal by anyone yet. He might be the overall most underrated depth WR in the entire CFL. He may be the top run blocking WR in the CFL. Anyone that wants to bolster their downfield run blocking would be extremely wise to pick him up. Best fits for him are a team that wants to try and emulate our offensive success over the last 6 years.
BEASTS OF THE EAST

I DON'T BRAKE FOR RIDER FANS

theaardvark

Quote from: KINGCHARLES on February 07, 2024, 06:23:17 PMJust watch Bailey go to the Riders too YUCK....I'm surprised he hasn't been offered a deal by anyone yet. He might be the overall most underrated depth WR in the entire CFL. He may be the top run blocking WR in the CFL. Anyone that wants to bolster their downfield run blocking would be extremely wise to pick him up. Best fits for him are a team that wants to try and emulate our offensive success over the last 6 years.

We have no idea if all 8 other teams haven't offered him a deal, as well as the Bombers.  He definitely left money on the table last year, he may be deciding just how much it will take to get him to move from his family here.

I don't think anyone is offering him top dollars, his play is good, but not stellar, and I think we will end up being his landing spot again, offering a competitive deal that is still good value for us.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Blueforlife

I didn't think we would, 5 star signing
Sometimes you need a fresh start

TecnoGenius

This is a bit surprising.  Yes, KW is good at retention of key pieces, and he hates to lose key puzzle pieces that affect the post-season.  But Schoen's "just an IMP" with no hometown allegiances.  And he was leading the league last season.  So there was going to be major interest and competition.

So we've mostly kept the powerhouse starting O intact.  With Lawler having a full year in 2024 (vs 2023 cough cough), we should be pretty darn potent.  (Let's assume we manage to get a competent RT -- big assumption.)  HOWEVER, that O wasn't enough to win us the GC.  That O could have sealed it with 1-2 first downs and blew it.  2 years in a row.

Now add in the fact that, unless we get scout-lucky this season, our D will almost certainly be weaker due to lost pieces and shifted D-side budget, then I must question if our 2024 team will be good enough to beat MTL in a do-over GC.  The only saving grace here is that MTL is losing a ton of top players and can't keep striking scout-jackpot.  (Not saying MTL will be in the GC, but at this moment they are the measuring stick and 2024 puzzle to solve.)

If our D, which already wasn't the best, is even weaker then we can shift to being a highly aggressive and bold O team.  Like the Chiefs of the CFL.  Just get it done on O and score on most drives and it doesn't matter if the D sucks.  (Not saying Chiefs D sucks, but it probably wouldn't matter if they did.)  That's what we should have done in the GC.  It's MOS/Buck's choice whether to turtle up or go for the gold on O.  Let's choose to go out there and grab wins.
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius

Another thought about Schoen and why we paid probably more than we can afford: what premium do you place on retaining a receiver who has arguably the best chemistry with his QB in the whole league?  What is that worth?  Maybe that extra $30k?

Lawler is a better receiver than Schoen, but he's never had that magic chemistry with Zach.  They don't really need it, as Kenny will basically catch anything around him.  But notice how come scramble-rules time, Kenny is mostly invisible.

Demski also has good chemistry with Zach, and that partly explains his high price tag as well (plus being a NAT of course).
Never go full Rider!

blue_gold_84

Lawler absolutely has (and has had) excellent chemistry with Collaros. He's just a different type of receiver compared to Schoen.

Paying a bit of a premium to keep the latter is the cost of doing business. The offense is going to be top tier once again.
#forthew
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theaardvark

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 08, 2024, 03:47:48 PMLawler absolutely has (and has had) excellent chemistry with Collaros. He's just a different type of receiver compared to Schoen.

Paying a bit of a premium to keep the latter is the cost of doing business. The offense is going to be top tier once again.

Schoen definitely did not come at a premium to what his worth is in the league.  If anything, we got a steal, for this player, in this market, at this stage of his career.

That said, can we afford 3 high paid WR's?  Even if they are some of the best in the league and one is a NAT?  Certainly makes Walters job a lot harder...

Lawler kinda gives an assist to this signing.  Hard to afford both of them, but I do not doubt Kenny told Dalton about greener grass, and how good he has it here, with an oline protecting a QB that can feed him the ball.  And a room filled with brothers. 

Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: theaardvark on February 08, 2024, 05:25:38 PMSchoen definitely did not come at a premium to what his worth is in the league.  If anything, we got a steal, for this player, in this market, at this stage of his career.

That said, can we afford 3 high paid WR's?  Even if they are some of the best in the league and one is a NAT?  Certainly makes Walters job a lot harder...

Lawler kinda gives an assist to this signing.  Hard to afford both of them, but I do not doubt Kenny told Dalton about greener grass, and how good he has it here, with an oline protecting a QB that can feed him the ball.  And a room filled with brothers. 

Lawler has not played more than 13 games in any of the last 3 years, whereas Schoen has only missed 2 games in 2 seasons.  If Lawler wants to maintain his pay advantage he needs to participate in more games than he has.

theaardvark

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 08, 2024, 05:53:48 PMLawler has not played more than 13 games in any of the last 3 years, whereas Schoen has only missed 2 games in 2 seasons.  If Lawler wants to maintain his pay advantage he needs to participate in more games than he has.

Well, last year was an anomoly, with his legal issues being the reason for missed games.  We didn't pay him for those games missed. 
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 08, 2024, 05:53:48 PMLawler has not played more than 13 games in any of the last 3 years, whereas Schoen has only missed 2 games in 2 seasons.  If Lawler wants to maintain his pay advantage he needs to participate in more games than he has.

He didn't play more than 13 games in 2021 because of the shortened season due to the pandemic. For all intents and purposes, he played a full season that year.

He was suspended last season under pretty extenuating circumstances, so I'm not sure if that's a reasonable criticism to level at him for "missing" games.

Up to this point, I think it's fair to say Lawler has been worth every penny the WFC has paid him.
#forthew
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Jesse

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 08, 2024, 06:27:10 PMHe didn't play more than 13 games in 2021 because of the shortened season due to the pandemic. For all intents and purposes, he played a full season that year.

He was suspended last season under pretty extenuating circumstances, so I'm not sure if that's a reasonable criticism to level at him for "missing" games.

Up to this point, I think it's fair to say Lawler has been worth every penny the WFC has paid him.

He makes a lot of money for a guy who has never been able to be a league leader in yards/TDs.

We can list the excuses, but he needs to put together a full season if he wants to keep that pay check.
My wife is amazing!

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Jesse on February 08, 2024, 08:12:37 PMHe makes a lot of money for a guy who has never been able to be a league leader in yards/TDs.

We can list the excuses, but he needs to put together a full season if he wants to keep that pay check.


He did lead the league in yds. in 2021 with 1014 in 13 games but he wasn't leaps and bounds ahead of everybody else, so it's strange Jones blew his brains out offering him that contract.


TecnoGenius

Quote from: theaardvark on February 08, 2024, 05:25:38 PM...Kenny told Dalton about greener grass, and how good he has it here, with an 4/5ths of an oline protecting a QB that can feed him the ball.  And a room filled with brothers.

FIFY!   :D  :D  :D
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius

#33
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 08, 2024, 06:27:10 PMUp to this point, I think it's fair to say Lawler has been worth every penny the WFC has paid him.

To me it's all about the post-season puzzle pieces.  We brought him back to push us over the hump we couldn't clear when losing the '22 GC.  We just needed that extra gravy on O to get the cup.

By that yardstick, Kenny was a failure.  We have no cup.  Ya, Kenny made a couple of great grabs and got decent yardage.  But to be honest, the mostly no-name (before 2023) receivers for MTL looked better.

Kenny makes that underthrown grab in the EZ for the TD (like Mack and the other MTL R's did all night with Cody's underthrows) and it may have been different.

So like $300k spent and no cup.  Disappointing.

Before you all jump: I'm not saying the loss is all on (or even mostly on) Kenny.  Just saying he was 1 of 2 big pieces brought in to win it (the other being Castillo).  As such I expected more.

Edit: I look at it like this.  Remember Geroy Simon in (I think) 2013, when he was brought into SSK just to win the cup, and paid a ton of $$ to do so.  Ya so he gets the game-sealing/dagger TD (can't recall what else he did though).  Kenny was our Geroy.  Didn't succeed like Geroy.
Never go full Rider!

Pigskin

#34
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 09, 2024, 12:37:21 AMDalton Schoen press conference.

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/02/08/dalton-schoen-february-8-2024/

Sound like ZC8 and ND10 did a little recruiting.

No offer enough to lure him away.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Pigskin

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 09, 2024, 03:54:44 AMTo me it's all about the post-season puzzle pieces.  We brought him back to push us over the hump we couldn't clear when losing the '22 GC.  We just needed that extra gravy on O to get the cup.

By that yardstick, Kenny was a failure.  We have no cup.  Ya, Kenny made a couple of great grabs and got decent yardage.  But to be honest, the mostly no-name (before 2023) receivers for MTL looked better.

Kenny makes that underthrown grab in the EZ for the TD (like Mack and the other MTL R's did all night with Cody's underthrows) and it may have been different.

So like $300k spent and no cup.  Disappointing.

Before you all jump: I'm not saying the loss is all on (or even mostly on) Kenny.  Just saying he was 1 of 2 big pieces brought in to win it (the other being Castillo).  As such I expected more.

Edit: I look at it like this.  Remember Geroy Simon in (I think) 2013, when he was brought into SSK just to win the cup, and paid a ton of $$ to do so.  Ya so he gets the game-sealing/dagger TD (can't recall what else he did though).  Kenny was our Geroy.  Didn't succeed like Geroy.

The Bombers didn't pay KL89 $300K in 2023. Contract was $265K, but with his suspension probably closer to $175K.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: Jesse on February 08, 2024, 08:12:37 PMHe makes a lot of money for a guy who has never been able to be a league leader in yards/TDs.

We can list the excuses, but he needs to put together a full season if he wants to keep that pay check.

He led the league in receiving yards and finished third in TDs in 2021. That was, for all intents and purposes, a full season where only 13 games were played.

Despite the legal troubles last season, he still put up 901 yards and 6 TDs in 12 games.

This upcoming season should be his best opportunity since breaking out to show he's worth the money and I see no reason to doubt him at this point.
#forthew
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Jesse

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 09, 2024, 01:33:31 PMHe led the league in receiving yards and finished third in TDs in 2021. That was, for all intents and purposes, a full season where only 13 games were played.

Despite the legal troubles last season, he still put up 901 yards and 6 TDs in 12 games.

This upcoming season should be his best opportunity since breaking out to show he's worth the money and I see no reason to doubt him at this point.

I'm not doubting him, but he still has to do it. His career highs are 1014 yards and 6 TDs. He has yet to put together a full season.
My wife is amazing!

theaardvark

You don't pay Lawler to gring out yards.  You pay him to make spectacular catches on 50/50 balls. And gain yards. 

He stretches the field, and he opens up other receivers.  He is a threat no matter what the field position or game circumstance.

And when he makes that big play, its usually a momentum changer.



Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: theaardvark on February 09, 2024, 05:19:36 PMYou don't pay Lawler to gring out yards.  You pay him to make spectacular catches on 50/50 balls. And gain yards. 

He stretches the field, and he opens up other receivers.  He is a threat no matter what the field position or game circumstance.

And when he makes that big play, its usually a momentum changer.

IMO throwing 50/50 balls and relying on "spectacular" catches is lazy football and a losing strategy, it usually means the QB is throwing up a hope and a prayer (Fajardo specialty) that his guy comes down with the ball. I would rather have an offence that moves the ball downfield in a methodical secure manner than frequently gambling on higher risk plays because it's quicker and takes less work to get to the endzone.

Pete

Its no so much the spectacular catches, it's that Zac can throw the ball deeper and even if there's coverage the odds are in our favor that Lawler will come down with it, or as often happens draws an interference call.
As mentioned teams end up with double coverage on him letting Schoen and Demski do their thing.
(its too bad they don't count interference calls drawn and the yardage gained because Lawler is so good at that.)

Jesse

Quote from: theaardvark on February 09, 2024, 05:19:36 PMYou don't pay Lawler to gring out yards.  You pay him to make spectacular catches on 50/50 balls. And gain yards. 

He stretches the field, and he opens up other receivers.  He is a threat no matter what the field position or game circumstance.

And when he makes that big play, its usually a momentum changer.

I'm certainly not suggesting Lawler isn't excellent.

He's not hitting top yards/TDs because he's never been on the field for 18 games. That's what he has to change.
My wife is amazing!

blue_gold_84

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 09, 2024, 05:44:52 PMIMO throwing 50/50 balls and relying on "spectacular" catches is lazy football and a losing strategy...

Nonsense.

This thread sure derailed in bizarre fashion.
#forthew
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Don't be a Rich.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on February 09, 2024, 01:33:31 PMThis upcoming season should be his best opportunity since breaking out to show he's worth the money and I see no reason to doubt him at this point.

You bet, 100% this.  There is no reason 2024 can't be Kenny's best season ever.  It's all lined up and ready for him.  No excuses.  I have full faith that he can do it.  His on-field action needs to catch up to his lofty ego.  And I don't say that as if it's a bad thing.
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 09, 2024, 05:44:52 PMIMO throwing 50/50 balls and relying on "spectacular" catches is lazy football and a losing strategy, it usually means the QB is throwing up a hope and a prayer (Fajardo specialty) that his guy comes down with the ball. I would rather have an offence that moves the ball downfield in a methodical secure manner than frequently gambling on higher risk plays because it's quicker and takes less work to get to the endzone.

You beat me to the Cody comment.  :D  :D   That statement basically sums up his GC.  Maybe his only great/accurate mid/long range pass was the final TD to Philpot.  Then again, throwing 0 degrees straight up the middle isn't the hardest of throws.

But there is a time and place for the 50/50 and circus catches.  You need a solid mix of both styles of O.  WPG O plays best earlier in the season when we play loose and not so conservative and we're chucking up deep balls left and right.  Then the GC comes and we abandon the deep / mid-deep ball and we lose.  My main theme for 2024 is we need to be bold.  50/50 is bold.  Telling your WRs you trust them to make the play is bold.  That's what MTL did in the GC (3rd & 3 underthrow to Mack anyone?); in fact, that's basically all they did.  And it worked.

Just think if Zach had thrown that Kenny TD shot high or deep instead of feathering in the perfect pass to where Kenny was waiting... Kenny could have climbed the ladder or tip-toed at the EZ back, and then Ento has no shot at it.  Trusting Kenny may have won us the GC.  Instead we let Ento screw us over (on the Woli TD shot too).
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Pete on February 09, 2024, 06:36:12 PM(its too bad they don't count interference calls drawn and the yardage gained because Lawler is so good at that.)

As a fantasy player, I 10000% agree with that statement!  DPI should count as fantasy yards gained.  Certain players get DPId all the time on purpose, sometimes like half their nightly yards.

I bet GMs add in DPI yards when calculating a player's worth come FA....
Never go full Rider!