1st & 10 | January 12

Started by ModAdmin, January 14, 2024, 04:18:19 AM

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ModAdmin

"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden

Pete

#1
Looking around the league it seems that less players have been resigned than previous years.
ottawa 24
toronto  27
hamilto 32
wpg 29
calgary 32
sask 24
edm 11 (they have released some players already)
bc 18
we may see a lot of turnover in several teams

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Pete on January 14, 2024, 03:57:41 PM
Looking around the league it seems that less players have been resigned than previous years.
ottawa 24
toronto  27
hamilto 32
wpg 29
calgary 32
sask 24
edm 11 (they have released some players already)
bc 18
we may see a lot of turnover in several teams

You're listing the count of FA not yet re-signed?  From memory the FA re-signing list looks roughly the same as it did last year, league-wide.  EXCEPT, WPG usually has more guys pinned down by now.  WPG usually leads the pack in getting signings done early, at least for the last couple of years.  Things usually start really getting done by late February, and I think players not signed by them start getting nervous.

Yes, it looks like KW is correct that the Brady/Schoen questions are screwing up our normal re-signing playbook.  How long can we go on like this?  Maybe he has whisper contracts with a ton of "lesser" players already but can't finalize the numbers until the big questions are answered?  I really can't believe he'd just leave so many important FA guys hanging with no info at all.

Eventually he may have to cut Brady/Schoen bait just to ensure we can effectively retain the myriad other pieces.
Never go full Rider!

Waffler

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 14, 2024, 11:38:49 PM
Eventually he may have to cut Brady/Schoen bait just to ensure we can effectively retain the myriad other pieces.

Exactly what I am suspecting too. We'll just get too close to free agency to wait any longer and be forced to wish them the best of luck. Right now the Bombers should be thinking who who we can get cheaper. That is 2 huge salaries without which we might be able to fit everyone else in. As much as I hate to say it, they are replaceable.
Buried in the essentially random digits of pi, you can find your eight-digit birthdate. (Is that a wink from God or just a lot of digits?) - David G. Myers
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Everything seems stupid when it fails.  - Fyodor Dostoevsky

ModAdmin

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 14, 2024, 11:38:49 PM
You're listing the count of FA not yet re-signed?  From memory the FA re-signing list looks roughly the same as it did last year, league-wide.  EXCEPT, WPG usually has more guys pinned down by now.  WPG usually leads the pack in getting signings done early, at least for the last couple of years.  Things usually start really getting done by late February, and I think players not signed by them start getting nervous.

Yes, it looks like KW is correct that the Brady/Schoen questions are screwing up our normal re-signing playbook.  How long can we go on like this?  Maybe he has whisper contracts with a ton of "lesser" players already but can't finalize the numbers until the big questions are answered?  I really can't believe he'd just leave so many important FA guys hanging with no info at all.

Eventually he may have to cut Brady/Schoen bait just to ensure we can effectively retain the myriad other pieces.

You may be right but it would be a tough decision to walk away from the leading rusher and the #3 pass receiving leader (keep in mind he only played 16 games as well).
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden

TecnoGenius

Quote from: ModAdmin on January 14, 2024, 11:59:41 PM
You may be right but it would be a tough decision to walk away from the leading rusher and the #3 pass receiving leader (keep in mind he only played 16 games as well).

Ya, the whole situation sucks.  But we've learned over the years that KW doesn't risk the whole team for one player.  He'll let the stars walk.

All the Bradys and Schoens in the world won't help us if we lose every other FA guy and are left to pick up the scraps from other team rejects in April... that would blow the continuity that has been a key part of WFC success.

Looking at the FA list I think we may let walk (or give low offers to):
Brown
Darby
Hansen
McCrae
Prukop
Rose
Thomas

Guys we probably want to retain even at higher cost:
Augustine (if we stay NAT at RB)
Bryant
Castillo
Grant
Hallett
Hardrick
Houston
Jeffcoat
Kolankowski
Orange
Walker

On the bubble guys who are nice to have but won't roll out big $$ for:
Alexander
Bailey
Briggs
Clements
Exume
Guathier
Gray
Woli

To me the most important yet heretofore ignored pieces to keep, if we can, are Walker and Houston, and Grant.  We have no real, good, dev IMP DT and it would be nice to finally have continuity at that position for more than a season.  Rose will probably disappear, and Holm might NFL, so Houston becomes critical.  Clearly we have no extra option at returner, so retain Grant.  He didn't do much in 2023, so should sign for the same $$.

Also, Alexander may need to be quietly replaced.  Had a major down year in 2023 and was rarely in the picture on deep passes when we needed him.  I hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling.

As for FA pickups, I would like to see a "real" IMP SAM, with Kramdi as backup, unless truly needed for the (non-fake 7) ratio.
Never go full Rider!

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Waffler on January 14, 2024, 11:47:31 PM
Exactly what I am suspecting too. We'll just get too close to free agency to wait any longer and be forced to wish them the best of luck. Right now the Bombers should be thinking who who we can get cheaper. That is 2 huge salaries without which we might be able to fit everyone else in. As much as I hate to say it, they are replaceable.

Yep, Walters has to pick a number out of the air and inform their agents this is what he's prepared to offer, then commence to sign all other essential pieces at their fair value.  If Schoen and Brady come back to the table, they already know his number, if they don't, Walters won't have wasted his time.

Pete

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 15, 2024, 12:22:16 AM
Ya, the whole situation sucks.  But we've learned over the years that KW doesn't risk the whole team for one player.  He'll let the stars walk.

All the Bradys and Schoens in the world won't help us if we lose every other FA guy and are left to pick up the scraps from other team rejects in April... that would blow the continuity that has been a key part of WFC success.

Looking at the FA list I think we may let walk (or give low offers to):
Brown
Darby
Hansen
McCrae
Prukop
Rose
Thomas

Guys we probably want to retain even at higher cost:
Augustine (if we stay NAT at RB)
Bryant     (cant afford to pay the same or more for aging olineman, his last contract came after outstanding lineman year which he didnt have last year
Castillo
Grant
Hallett
Hardrick - if we can keep Bryant at a reasonable deal we might let Hardrick go,
Houston

Jeffcoat  We may be better looking to free agency in this position
Kolankowski
Orange
Walker

On the bubble guys who are nice to have but won't roll out big $$ for:
Alexander
Bailey
Briggs = would add him to the let walk list)
Clements
Exume
Guathier
Gray
Woli

To me the most important yet heretofore ignored pieces to keep, if we can, are Walker and Houston, and Grant.  We have no real, good, dev IMP DT and it would be nice to finally have continuity at that position for more than a season.  Rose will probably disappear, and Holm might NFL, so Houston becomes critical.  Clearly we have no extra option at returner, so retain Grant.  He didn't do much in 2023, so should sign for the same $$.

Also, Alexander may need to be quietly replaced.  Had a major down year in 2023 and was rarely in the picture on deep passes when we needed him.  I hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling.

As for FA pickups, I would like to see a "real" IMP SAM, with Kramdi as backup, unless truly needed for the (non-fake 7) ratio.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Pete on January 15, 2024, 01:56:49 AM
Bryant     (cant afford to pay the same or more for aging olineman, his last contract came after outstanding lineman year which he didnt have last year

Watching all the MOS and KW interviews they are dropping major hints Bryant will be a Bomber in 2024.  I'd be shocked he goes elsewhere, and he doesn't want to retire (yet).

Yoshi in interviews in previous years has indicated how he bleeds B&G.  He'll stay without a pay bump.

I think it'll be like most FAs in that it's the younger, starter NAT OLs that are at risk to go get the big payday elsewhere.

Quote from: Pete on January 15, 2024, 01:56:49 AM
Jeffcoat  We may be better looking to free agency in this position

Jeffcoat is the big question mark, yes.  I'm not sure anyone knows what will happen there.  He's great, but is doing a lot of tub sitting.

Quote from: Pete on January 15, 2024, 01:56:49 AM
Briggs = would add him to the let walk list)

There are a lot of guys that are "keep at the same price or cheaper".  If you can get Briggs for cheap, why not?  Until one of the younger/DP NATs proves better (Noah?) or they ask for a big raise, why not keep them?  To me that's all the bubble guys.  I don't think you cut them just to change it up for some FA guy.
Never go full Rider!

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 15, 2024, 02:46:14 AM
Watching all the MOS and KW interviews they are dropping major hints Bryant will be a Bomber in 2024.  I'd be shocked he goes elsewhere, and he doesn't want to retire (yet).

Yoshi in interviews in previous years has indicated how he bleeds B&G.  He'll stay without a pay bump.

I think it'll be like most FAs in that it's the younger, starter NAT OLs that are at risk to go get the big payday elsewhere.

Jeffcoat is the big question mark, yes.  I'm not sure anyone knows what will happen there.  He's great, but is doing a lot of tub sitting.

There are a lot of guys that are "keep at the same price or cheaper".  If you can get Briggs for cheap, why not?  Until one of the younger/DP NATs proves better (Noah?) or they ask for a big raise, why not keep them?  To me that's all the bubble guys.  I don't think you cut them just to change it up for some FA guy.

Briggs has to be beat out by an upcoming or new Natl. which there are quite a few of trying to make the roster, no need to go to FA to find a replacement for a bubble player.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 15, 2024, 03:08:13 AM
Briggs has to be beat out by an upcoming or new Natl. which there are quite a few of trying to make the roster, no need to go to FA to find a replacement for a bubble player.

Whilst true for NATs, it's less so for IMPs.

What IMPs do we have in-house that can produce as much as Alexander, Bailey & Clements??  Those 3 guys especially would require some stellar scouting gem find, or a move in FA.

In 2018-2019 we were exceptional at finding the unwanted cast-offs and couch-sitters that we could get good deals on in FA.  Guys that turned out to be amazing: Maston, Taylor, M.Jones, etc.  Haven't done that much lately.

It's a tricky situation, that's for sure.  KW in FA, and scouts down south, are going to have to step up and repeat their magic if we want to not only maintain our level of greatness, but get even better to ensure the cup win.
Never go full Rider!

TBURGESS

Orange - Likely to sign somewhere else where he can get more reps.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.

Lincoln Locomotive

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 14, 2024, 11:38:49 PM
You're listing the count of FA not yet re-signed?  From memory the FA re-signing list looks roughly the same as it did last year, league-wide.  EXCEPT, WPG usually has more guys pinned down by now.  WPG usually leads the pack in getting signings done early, at least for the last couple of years.  Things usually start really getting done by late February, and I think players not signed by them start getting nervous.

Yes, it looks like KW is correct that the Brady/Schoen questions are screwing up our normal re-signing playbook.  How long can we go on like this?  Maybe he has whisper contracts with a ton of "lesser" players already but can't finalize the numbers until the big questions are answered?  I really can't believe he'd just leave so many important FA guys hanging with no info at all.

Eventually he may have to cut Brady/Schoen bait just to ensure we can effectively retain the myriad other pieces.
And hence my post about us being in "limbo" with regard to signing our FAs.    If we sign either of or both Dalton and Brady something has to give.....there's no way around it.   Last year we paid both Dalton and Brady based on their performances far below what their play level would normally demand and I could see this scenario coming albeit I was caught off guard with Brady's declaration of intent to pursue the NFL during Grey Cup week.
Bomber fan for life

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 15, 2024, 04:05:21 AM
Whilst true for NATs, it's less so for IMPs.

What IMPs do we have in-house that can produce as much as Alexander, Bailey & Clements??  Those 3 guys especially would require some stellar scouting gem find, or a move in FA.

In 2018-2019 we were exceptional at finding the unwanted cast-offs and couch-sitters that we could get good deals on in FA.  Guys that turned out to be amazing: Maston, Taylor, M.Jones, etc.  Haven't done that much lately.

It's a tricky situation, that's for sure.  KW in FA, and scouts down south, are going to have to step up and repeat their magic if we want to not only maintain our level of greatness, but get even better to ensure the cup win.

I don't see any of those 3 as bubble players, they're essential signs IMO.

theaardvark

Woli and Orange are solid ratio guys.  I expect at least one here next year.  If we lose one, we step up to keep the other.  If one signs before FA, we likely lose the other, unless everyone else likes their Nat WR depth, and the offers don't make sense taking into account the post season cheques they have received here.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Pete

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 15, 2024, 04:05:21 AM
Whilst true for NATs, it's less so for IMPs.

What IMPs do we have in-house that can produce as much as Alexander, Bailey & Clements??  Those 3 guys especially would require some stellar scouting gem find, or a move in FA.

In 2018-2019 we were exceptional at finding the unwanted cast-offs and couch-sitters that we could get good deals on in FA.  Guys that turned out to be amazing: Maston, Taylor, M.Jones, etc.  Haven't done that much lately.

It's a tricky situation, that's for sure.  KW in FA, and scouts down south, are going to have to step up and repeat their magic if we want to not only maintain our level of greatness, but get even better to ensure the cup win.

the issue with Clements is that we have to find a linebacker replacement for Bighill likely for after this upcoming season. I'm not sure Clements is that guy. I think Cole, who we have resigned, can back up Wilson. If they feel that Clements can step into a start mlb then sign him but otherwise we should be looking,
Bailey it simply comes down to what we do with Shoen. If we resign then likely nothing is left for Bailey. With L'orange and Wolistarski likely we resign one, I was impressed wtih Murphy and hoplefully he progresses.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2024, 05:49:13 PM
Woli and Orange are solid ratio guys.  I expect at least one here next year.  If we lose one, we step up to keep the other.  If one signs before FA, we likely lose the other, unless everyone else likes their Nat WR depth, and the offers don't make sense taking into account the post season cheques they have received here.

Easy choice, Woli is a solid glue guy that plays his role well and BOLO never got his foot in the door and needs to look for a better opportunity elsewhere.  Not a lot of opportunities for Natl. receivers to start, so no guarantee either would achieve that if they went elsewhere.  Daniel Petermann has been in the league for 4 years and has never graduated beyond backup.

theaardvark

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 16, 2024, 06:02:41 PM
Easy choice, Woli is a solid glue guy that plays his role well and BOLO never got his foot in the door and needs to look for a better opportunity elsewhere.  Not a lot of opportunities for Natl. receivers to start, so no guarantee either would achieve that if they went elsewhere.  Daniel Petermann has been in the league for 4 years and has never graduated beyond backup.

Hiding the seventh Nat at the fifth WR is a common thing for many teams, and BOO should be able to find that spot somewhere, if he wants.  Will it be for a bigger paycheck than here?  Maybe.  Will his prospects of post season money be as good as here?  Probably not.  For the guys earning ELC or near min salaries, that GC win cheque is like a 50% bonus.  Plus, getting to be on a championship team, playing every week in a situation to win, that's gotta be a lot better job that making a few bucks more guaranteed in an environment that sucks, with a facility that sucks, in a city that sucks.. (yeah, even with the cold/mosquitos, I like Winnipeg best).
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Jesse

One option for shedding some dollars if we sign a big contract would be letting Woli walk and then putting BOO in his place (I'm just assuming we could sign him for a little less).
My wife is amazing!

Throw Long Bannatyne

#19
Quote from: Jesse on January 17, 2024, 04:12:25 PM
One option for shedding some dollars if we sign a big contract would be letting Woli walk and then putting BOO in his place (I'm just assuming we could sign him for a little less).

Don't think there would be much savings, I don't think Woli makes much, he might be around $105k a price a lot of Natl. journeyman seem to plateau.  He's well worth the price for what he contributes.

Jesse

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 17, 2024, 06:08:38 PM
Don't think there would be much savings, I'm don't think Woli makes much, he might be around $105k a price a lot of Natl. journeyman seem to plateau.  He's well worth the price for what he contributes.

Definitely wouldn't be much, but you're also not finding lump sums anywhere, there would have to be a series of moves saving you 10-20k a piece (imo).
My wife is amazing!

Pete

#21
Quote from: Jesse on January 17, 2024, 07:24:34 PM
Definitely wouldn't be much, but you're also not finding lump sums anywhere, there would have to be a series of moves saving you 10-20k a piece (imo).
i think you right, some long term vets might not be affordable
Briggs.
Thomas
Rose
Bailey or Wolitarski
Gautier
Exume
Grey
Castillo
Really the only bigger contracts we could shed is Hardwick and Jeffcoat (with Jeffcoat wed have to replace hime with another higher contract)

Throw Long Bannatyne

#22
Quote from: Pete on January 17, 2024, 08:19:47 PM
i think you right, some long term vets might not be affordable
Briggs.
Thomas
Rose
Bailey or Wolitarski
Gautier
Exume
Grey
Castillo
Really the only bigger contracts we could shed is Hardwick and Jeffcoat (with Jeffcoat wed have to replace hime with another higher contract)


Can't fool around with Castillo, need to get him inked.  He may not be Medlock, but he's steady good and would be hard to replace with a competent unknown FG kicker that doesn't melt under pressure.  Sure hope they go in a different direction with the punter this season, I don't like his style or the results!

blue_gold_84

Getting Castillo re-signed is a must, IMO.
#forthew
лава Україні!
Don't be a Rich.

theaardvark

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 17, 2024, 08:38:09 PM
Can't fool around with Castillo, need to get him inked.  He may not be Medlock, but he's steady good and would be hard to replace with a competent unknown FG kicker that doesn't melt under pressure.  Sure hope they go in a different direction with the punter this season, I don't like his style or the results!

Different direction at punter...  I see what you did there... but the problem was too many directions at punter... still, kinda interested to see where the experiment goes...
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

DM83

Castillo is a must.
Whoever the punter was was a bust. Adequate.  Could be worse.

Noeller

Ya Castillo to me is a massive need. I pulled for Lieggho, but the lack of anxiety over PK last year was so nice and I don't want to go back to the other way.