Dave Naylor: A look at where every team sits at QB

Started by blue_gold_84, January 10, 2024, 07:03:08 PM

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blue_gold_84

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-a-look-at-where-every-cfl-team-sits-at-quarterback-1.2060605

Some solid analysis from Naylor going into free agency and looking ahead to the 2024 season.

I wonder if we see Streveler return to the CFL this year.
#forthew
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Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 10, 2024, 07:03:08 PM
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/dave-naylor-a-look-at-where-every-cfl-team-sits-at-quarterback-1.2060605

Some solid analysis from Naylor going into free agency and looking ahead to the 2024 season.

I wonder if we see Streveler return to the CFL this year.

I wonder if Prukop will look for a temp. job in the USFL to supplement his earnings again and come back to the Bombers later in the fall.

theaardvark

With Crum in house, not sure Ottawa opens the vault to sign Dru.  Plus, Adams looked good, and who knows Masoli's prognosis, he's had enough time to recover.  Look what time did for Collaros.

WIth SSK reupping Harris, and Mitchell re-upping in Ham, MBT in EDM, And Fajardo in MTL, not sure any team is looking for a new #1 or even someone they can sign for a "compete for #1" salary.  Unless Dru gets some serious cash, I can see us still being in the hunt as FA time comes.  And I'm sure, all things being equal, he'd rather sign here, because he will get better, and will get snaps.  Collaros has been fairly durable in his tenure here, but he's not getting any younger. 

I hope Dru gets a legit chance to start if he leaves, but I'd prefer him to stay...

That said, if the brain trust has a potential QB on the neg list they are excited about, having a #2 QB on the cheap for 2 years means we can sign more of our other FA's.  And when teh time comes, and we need a new QB1, maybe we take a run at stealing Dru back.  IF we haven't developed the next Dru.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Jesse

Quote from: theaardvark on January 10, 2024, 08:20:02 PM
With Crum in house, not sure Ottawa opens the vault to sign Dru.  Plus, Adams looked good, and who knows Masoli's prognosis, he's had enough time to recover.  Look what time did for Collaros.

WIth SSK reupping Harris, and Mitchell re-upping in Ham, MBT in EDM, And Fajardo in MTL, not sure any team is looking for a new #1 or even someone they can sign for a "compete for #1" salary.  Unless Dru gets some serious cash, I can see us still being in the hunt as FA time comes.  And I'm sure, all things being equal, he'd rather sign here, because he will get better, and will get snaps.  Collaros has been fairly durable in his tenure here, but he's not getting any younger. 

I hope Dru gets a legit chance to start if he leaves, but I'd prefer him to stay...

That said, if the brain trust has a potential QB on the neg list they are excited about, having a #2 QB on the cheap for 2 years means we can sign more of our other FA's.  And when teh time comes, and we need a new QB1, maybe we take a run at stealing Dru back.  IF we haven't developed the next Dru.

This is the exact opposite of what Kyle Walters said about Dru Brown. He suggested that even if the Bombers could put forth a competitive offer, Dru would still likely go elsewhere for an increased opportunity.

He doesn't need to be the day 1 starter to have a better opportunity on another team.
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Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: theaardvark on January 10, 2024, 08:20:02 PM
With Crum in house, not sure Ottawa opens the vault to sign Dru.  Plus, Adams looked good, and who knows Masoli's prognosis, he's had enough time to recover.  Look what time did for Collaros.

WIth SSK reupping Harris, and Mitchell re-upping in Ham, MBT in EDM, And Fajardo in MTL, not sure any team is looking for a new #1 or even someone they can sign for a "compete for #1" salary.  Unless Dru gets some serious cash, I can see us still being in the hunt as FA time comes.  And I'm sure, all things being equal, he'd rather sign here, because he will get better, and will get snaps.  Collaros has been fairly durable in his tenure here, but he's not getting any younger. 

I hope Dru gets a legit chance to start if he leaves, but I'd prefer him to stay...

That said, if the brain trust has a potential QB on the neg list they are excited about, having a #2 QB on the cheap for 2 years means we can sign more of our other FA's.  And when teh time comes, and we need a new QB1, maybe we take a run at stealing Dru back.  IF we haven't developed the next Dru.

They'll be lucky if Masoli is back before July, he certainly won't be available for the start of the season...and Bob Dyce 's job is on the line.

Waffler

Jeff Hamilton on Dru brown:

Lots of talk about Bombers QB Dru Brown and where he?ll end up once free agency opens on Feb. 13. It likely won?t be Winnipeg, which Bombers GM Kyle Walters predicted in his media availability Tuesday. Brown loved his time on the prairies but wants a legitimate chance to earn more playing time. With Zach Collaros under contract for two more years, that just isn?t going to happen in Winnipeg. I?ve long said I believe Brown will end up with the Ottawa Redblacks, working under new offensive co-ordinator Tommy Condell. Condell and Collaros are close and Collaros speaks incredibly highly of Brown, and I imagine his scouting report has already been passed along. With Jeremiah Masoli coming off an Achilles injury, and Dustin Crum still in need of some seasoning after his rookie year, I picture Brown at Redblacks training camp this spring vying for his first No.1 job.
Buried in the essentially random digits of pi, you can find your eight-digit birthdate. (Is that a wink from God or just a lot of digits?) - David G. Myers
__________________________________________________
Everything seems stupid when it fails.  - Fyodor Dostoevsky

theaardvark

If Condell is high on Collaros... should we look at "Ricky Ray'ing" Collaros now?  If Dru Brown is the next starter in the league, why not here, why not now.

We could get a something for Collaros, save some cap space to sign BO20 and DS83, and have a QB that we can move forward with long term.

I'm not saying we are better off with Dru over Zach, but Zach is one hit away from retirement, our Oline has kept him upright and safe.  We might not have the oline we've had the last few years, and that might factor in.

Its a tough decision, and no one wants to move away from Zach, he's taken us to 4 GC's.  But if a team can move on from Ritchie Hall to make sure they don't lose a Jordan Younger... is this any less of a toiugh decision?
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

blue_gold_84

#forthew
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theaardvark

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 11, 2024, 03:43:59 PM
What are you on this morning, Aardsy?

Nothing.  The whole Younger move has changed things. 

If Dru Brown is the next big thing, and we let him walk now, and we lose Collaros to injury (or father time) this year, we have zilch for QB in the year before we host the GC.

This prospect gets even worse next year, with Zach a year older and 20 games more on his tires. 

Was EDM smart in moving Ray for Jyles?  A guy with 20 starts and an 81.7 QB rating?  Probably the worst trade in all CFL history.

Was CGY trading Mitchell to HAM a smart move?  Probably, Maier has performed much better than Mitchell, but that' not a high bar to clear.

Is Collaros ate the same stage of his career as Mitchell, or where Ray was?  I;d say he's somewhere between. 

Just saying, if you can "demote" a DC that is rumoured to be next in line for any number of NFL HC jobs (just kidding) but still a premier DC in the league just to hold on to a promising your coach and stop him from signing elsewhere, then that opens up this discussion.

I don't think it will happen, not suggesting it should.  But should it be considered?  It depends on how high they are on Dru.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

blue_gold_84

In-house coaching changes should have no bearing on roster changes, much less ones on the other side of the ball.

So, no. Such considerations should not be made, as it's also an absurd comparison.

Collaros remains QB1 in the organization.
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theaardvark

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 11, 2024, 06:56:02 PM
In-house coaching changes should have no bearing on roster changes, much less ones on the other side of the ball.

So, no. Such considerations should not be made, as it's also an absurd comparison.

Collaros remains QB1 in the organization.

You miss the point.  If the organization can make a personnel decision based on moving on from a veteran to prevent losing a prospect, be it a coach, a player or a waterboy, that opens the discussion.

Promoting Younger but not considering promoting Dru (who does have 3 years in the organization, he's not just a flash) just seems counter-intuitive.

Yes, Zach is QB1, there is no doubt.  And the only time you can consider trading a QB1 is if you have someone to replace him.  Does Dru have more ability today?  I don't know.  But I do know:

He's more affordable (we have some BIG decisions to make that $200k could help)
He's younger
He fits here
When pressed into action, he has delivered.

Zach won us 2 GC's and all fans will be forever thankful for that.
But, Zach was at the helm for the last 2 GC losses.  And his play has been questioned in that regard.

It a tough decision to make, and either one could well be wrong.  But not having the discussion is worse.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

blue_or_die

Quote from: theaardvark on January 11, 2024, 07:05:42 PM
You miss the point.  If the organization can make a personnel decision based on moving on from a veteran to prevent losing a prospect, be it a coach, a player or a waterboy, that opens the discussion.

Promoting Younger but not considering promoting Dru (who does have 3 years in the organization, he's not just a flash) just seems counter-intuitive.


Yes, Zach is QB1, there is no doubt.  And the only time you can consider trading a QB1 is if you have someone to replace him.  Does Dru have more ability today?  I don't know.  But I do know:

He's more affordable (we have some BIG decisions to make that $200k could help)
He's younger
He fits here
When pressed into action, he has delivered.

Zach won us 2 GC's and all fans will be forever thankful for that.
But, Zach was at the helm for the last 2 GC losses.  And his play has been questioned in that regard.

It a tough decision to make, and either one could well be wrong.  But not having the discussion is worse.


Wha?

You're saying that because we were willing to make a change in one area then it means we're automatically open to it everywhere? This wasn't some sudden sort of change of heart - orgs (or at least the Bombers) should/are open the changes all the time. They do them if it makes sense, and the fact they don't do it often is because we've been so successful. Promoting Young and cutting Zach are completely unrelated things...
#Ride?

blue_gold_84

#12
Quote from: theaardvark on January 11, 2024, 07:05:42 PM
You miss the point.

You can't miss what doesn't exist.

I'll let the organization determine Collaros' worth to the WFC, not a fan whose mental gymnastics on this forum are as well known. The latter hasn't earned the consideration, anyway.
#forthew
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theaardvark

#13
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 11, 2024, 07:23:25 PM
You can't miss what doesn't exist.

I'll let the organization determine Collaros' worth to the WFC, not a fan whose mental gymnastics on this forum are as well known. The latter hasn't earned the consideration, anyway.

When Buck literally says that Dru is entitled to the chance to start in the league, I'm guessing that's consideration.  The Bomber's OC believes Dru has the ability to be a CFL starting QB today.

The question becomes:

Is he a better fit here than Zach.

Obviously, this team is loyal to its players to a fault. 

But the facts remain.

Dru would be younger and cheaper.  Would he be better?  I'm not in a position to know, but if it is even close, then the younger/cheaper factors come into play.

Can Zach finish 2025 better than he finished 2022 and 2023?

Can Dru continue to grow in 2024 and 2025 and bring the cup home at home?

Can signing Drew and trading Zach free up enough cash to sign DS83 and BO20?

This ain't checkers, its 3D chess...
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: theaardvark on January 11, 2024, 07:33:27 PM
When Buck literally says that Dru is entitled to the chance to start in the league, I'm guessing that's consideration.  The Bomber's OC believes Dru has the ability to be a CFL starting QB today.

Pierce can say whatever he wants and I'm sure O'Shea would agree on such an assessment. We've seen what Brown can do and that bodes well for him going forward. It doesn't mean the team should cut Collaros and go with Brown as QB1 going into the 2024 season, though. Pierce isn't the final authority on that.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 11, 2024, 07:33:27 PM
This ain't checkers, its 3D chess...

It's neither, Aardsy.
#forthew
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Pete

O'Shea is loyal to his vets to a fault. The only exception I've seen to this is Andrew Harris, but it took injuries and other off field issues to make that move and it was only after Harris became a free agent.
Is there an example of he or Walters not honoring a contract to save $'s?

theaardvark

No one is suggesting not honouring a contract.  I suggested a trade.  And every GM makes trades. 

And the deal would not be just to save $$$, although that plays into it.  Its retaining a potential top player, and affording to keep 2 others.  And potentially assuring the QB spot for a decade.

Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

TecnoGenius

I see what you're saying Aards.  And you made me think about it.  It's not the first time the idea of Dru > Zach has been floated.

I think it all comes down to this: a bird (Zach) in the hand is worth 2 (Drus) in the bush.  Zach can win you lots of games, win you the west division, win you playoff games, and give you a great shot in the GC.  This is all fact.  And it remains fact until he's proves otherwise.

Dru is ?.  Dru is a massive gamble for any team wanting to make him #1.  We think he'll be good.  Others think he'll be good.  But we're all just guessing.

Every team and every GM would love to take Zach off our hands right now.  They are going to pay their meh QBs $450-$550 and probably suck; of course they'd want to have winning Zach at $550-$600!

No, you stick with the hot and proven hand... and leader.  If Dru turns out to be the next Tom Brady, then oh well, some other team wins the gamble.  We could always take a shot at him in 2026 FA...  It's just as likely Dru turns into the next Franklin, Jennings, and Arbuckle: guys who looked like Tom Brady because they were on great teams with great OLs, but really were the next Brohm in disguise.
Never go full Rider!

Lincoln Locomotive

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 11, 2024, 09:48:37 PM
I see what you're saying Aards.  And you made me think about it.  It's not the first time the idea of Dru > Zach has been floated.

I think it all comes down to this: a bird (Zach) in the hand is worth 2 (Drus) in the bush.  Zach can win you lots of games, win you the west division, win you playoff games, and give you a great shot in the GC.  This is all fact.  And it remains fact until he's proves otherwise.

Dru is ?.  Dru is a massive gamble for any team wanting to make him #1.  We think he'll be good.  Others think he'll be good.  But we're all just guessing.

Every team and every GM would love to take Zach off our hands right now.  They are going to pay their meh QBs $450-$550 and probably suck; of course they'd want to have winning Zach at $550-$600!

No, you stick with the hot and proven hand... and leader.  If Dru turns out to be the next Tom Brady, then oh well, some other team wins the gamble.  We could always take a shot at him in 2026 FA...  It's just as likely Dru turns into the next Franklin, Jennings, and Arbuckle: guys who looked like Tom Brady because they were on great teams with great OLs, but really were the next Brohm in disguise.
Agreed....betting the wad on Dru being a perennial starting QB at this stage in his career is a gamble.    In the ideal world I'd love to see Dru mentor under Zach for another season or perhaps two pending Zach's health...however the football world is far from being ideal and with cap restrictions it's virtually impossible to have two bonafide QBs on the same roster for long.
Bomber fan for life

Jesse

CFL media seems pretty convinced that Dru is going to Ottawa.
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Blue In BC

Quote from: Jesse on January 12, 2024, 11:28:00 AM
CFL media seems pretty convinced that Dru is going to Ottawa.

We'll see how Ottawa handles the question about Masoli remaining with the team. That could happen very quickly due to the bonus issue.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

LXTSN

Quote from: Jesse on January 12, 2024, 11:28:00 AM
CFL media seems pretty convinced that Dru is going to Ottawa.
If Dru does go to Ottawa, can we have Pigrome back?

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 12, 2024, 01:48:13 PM
We'll see how Ottawa handles the question about Masoli remaining with the team. That could happen very quickly due to the bonus issue.

Bob Dyce doesn't have the luxury of waiting for Masoli to recuperate to save his job, he's gotta turn the RB's ship around within the first half of the season.  Signing Brown + Schoen would be a clever gambit to keep Ottawa fans engaged.

theaardvark

Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Blue In BC

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 12, 2024, 04:08:54 PM
Bob Dyce doesn't have the luxury of waiting for Masoli to recuperate to save his job, he's gotta turn the RB's ship around within the first half of the season.  Signing Brown + Schoen would be a clever gambit to keep Ottawa fans engaged.

That's not quite what I meant. Masoli has a $100K bonus due on the 15th IIRC. He may not be available until mid season and has a long history of serious injuries and time lost. At best he's going to need to re-negotiate his deal to eliminate the bonus as well as a cut in overall salary.

IMO chances are more likely for an out right release over the weekend. That frees up SMS for Brown but is that their best option? Would they look at Streveler as well for example or even Cornelius?

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TBURGESS

If I was Dyce I'd sign Streveler and Schoen. If I had enough $ left over, I'd pick up Brown too.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.

Blue In BC

Streveler has more completions and more yardage in the CFL than Brown in a shorter timeframe.  He's a better running threat. His average yards per reception is better. His TD to int ratio is not as good but he's had more CFL playing time as well as the NFL experience of coaching etc etc.

Is his upside greater than Brown? That's the debate. Is he more prepared to start in the short term? IDK. How much is either player looking for will come into play.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 12, 2024, 04:13:01 PM
That's not quite what I meant. Masoli has a $100K bonus due on the 15th IIRC. He may not be available until mid season and has a long history of serious injuries and time lost. At best he's going to need to re-negotiate his deal to eliminate the bonus as well as a cut in overall salary.

IMO chances are more likely for an out right release over the weekend. That frees up SMS for Brown but is that their best option? Would they look at Streveler as well for example or even Cornelius?

IMO Ottawa has to find the cheapest and quickest way to move on from Masoli, they may have to pay him out like Jones did Cornelius, but the sooner they get this done, the better the options for replacing him.  If Masoli still wants to play football he could catch on as a backup with almost any team, if he agrees to start from the bottom and wait for his opportunity like Harris did in Mtl. and Adams did in BC.

theaardvark

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 12, 2024, 05:42:15 PM
IMO Ottawa has to find the cheapest and quickest way to move on from Masoli, they may have to pay him out like Jones did Cornelius, but the sooner they get this done, the better the options for replacing him.  If Masoli still wants to play football he could catch on as a backup with almost any team, if he agrees to start from the bottom and wait for his opportunity like Harris did in Mtl. and Adams did in BC.

Masoli has a roster bonus, but I don't think he has any guaranteed money like Cornelius.  Severing ties is simple, although I'm not sure about being able to cut a player on the IR, legally or morally.  Not sure how $SMS treats a guy who has a bonus but ends/starts the next year on the IR.  Bonuses are usually included in the $SMS, no idea a\bout exceptions for guys on the 6 game at the time of the bonus.

 
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: theaardvark on January 12, 2024, 08:20:35 PM
Masoli has a roster bonus, but I don't think he has any guaranteed money like Cornelius.  Severing ties is simple, although I'm not sure about being able to cut a player on the IR, legally or morally.  Not sure how $SMS treats a guy who has a bonus but ends/starts the next year on the IR.  Bonuses are usually included in the $SMS, no idea a\bout exceptions for guys on the 6 game at the time of the bonus. 

I think teams can cut players on the IR ifas long as they negotiate an insurance settlement for their rehab..

dd

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 12, 2024, 05:42:15 PM
IMO Ottawa has to find the cheapest and quickest way to move on from Masoli, they may have to pay him out like Jones did Cornelius, but the sooner they get this done, the better the options for replacing him.  If Masoli still wants to play football he could catch on as a backup with almost any team, if he agrees to start from the bottom and wait for his opportunity like Harris did in Mtl. and Adams did in BC.
Agree 1000%, Ottawa does have to move on from oft injured grandpa masoli. Surprised that Evans retired, but heck, I'd sign him vs what they've had under centre for the past 2 seasons. Montreal is a legit contender this year after adding Lemon and Stankey to their roster, as is Toronto--they'll be in a pissy mood this season to redeem themselves and Hamilton is re-tooling, so what's Ottawa going to do , stand pat?? That's going to get guys fired.  They need to sign some serious impact FA to move up the food chain

TecnoGenius

Quote from: theaardvark on January 12, 2024, 08:20:35 PM
Masoli has a roster bonus, but I don't think he has any guaranteed money like Cornelius.

I thought the new CFL CBA a year or two back made is so all vets on multi-year contracts automatically have some guaranteed $ if they get cut in year 2 or 3??  Wasn't that a thing?  Same as coaches...?

If Corney got $100k severance then maybe that's what Masoli is looking at too.

OTT going after Dru as legit #1 starter makes the most sense vs any other team because OTT has nothing to lose.  If they gamble on Dru and it doesn't pan out, then no harm no foul, they keep the status quo (losing) and at least they showed they tried.
Never go full Rider!

Waffler

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2024, 11:53:56 PM

If Corney got $100k severance then maybe that's what Masoli is looking at too.

The 100k Corney got was guaranteed money from his last contract. Another genius Jones move.
Buried in the essentially random digits of pi, you can find your eight-digit birthdate. (Is that a wink from God or just a lot of digits?) - David G. Myers
__________________________________________________
Everything seems stupid when it fails.  - Fyodor Dostoevsky

theaardvark

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2024, 11:53:56 PM
I thought the new CFL CBA a year or two back made is so all vets on multi-year contracts automatically have some guaranteed $ if they get cut in year 2 or 3??  Wasn't that a thing?  Same as coaches...?

If Corney got $100k severance then maybe that's what Masoli is looking at too.

OTT going after Dru as legit #1 starter makes the most sense vs any other team because OTT has nothing to lose.  If they gamble on Dru and it doesn't pan out, then no harm no foul, they keep the status quo (losing) and at least they showed they tried.

Not automatic, but an incentive that teams can use to get players to sign multi year deals.  There is a limited amount of guaranteed second year (and maybe third year) money you can include in a contract.  I think Jones was using it as a carrot to get Corny to sign for less... and he ended up making more...
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

DM83