If the Bombers lose Dru Brown

[bwiser]

If the Bombers lose Dru Brown who should the Bombers go after in free agency. These are some of the Qb's who could be available.
Arbuckle
Davis
Dolega
Evans
Fine
Locksley
Schitz
Stevens
I think I would go after Schiltz as he has a bit of room to improve and can learn the offense for two seasons before we would need him to lead the team. Stevens is also interesting as he has a bit of an upside. Davis, Arbuckle and Evans are as good as they are going to be so I would likely give those three a pass.

[GOLDMEMBER]

If I had to pick one of those Shiltz. I would rather take none and find our own.

[TecnoGenius]

If I had to pick one of those Shiltz. I would rather take none and find our own.

Yup, if Brown walks then we find the next Brown.  If we did it before, we can do it again.

Not to be too harsh, but that entire list of guys sucks and I bet the number of those guys being a desired #1 starter on any team in 3 years will be zero or one.  Sure, some guys will be forced into starter due to injury or horrifically bad GM moves, like Fine and Dolegala were in 2023, but no one will be chasing after any of these guys to be their legit #1 for $500k in FA.

I agree with both you you that Schiltz is the most promising of the bunch.  He seems like he could be a VAJ -- in the league forever and finally shows some ability to be a #1.  The older ones in that crowd are clearly perennial #2's or SY guys.  The younger ones may have 1 guy going somewhere, but I doubt it.  Stevens could be interesting if he starts showing he can throw, but for now he strikes me as a LeFevor (superb SY guy, bad at everything else).

Our last 2 of 3 #2 QB finds turned out way better than anyone could have imagined (Strev & Brown).  McGuire was a bust as a possible #1, but was great SY.  I'd call Dom a bust too, as he really never became more than a SY guy, and he had plenty of chances (starts as #1).  But the fact Brown & Strev could have been / were / should be decent #1 starters shows that our scouts can find that next guy on ELC.  So let's do it again!

If I absolutely had to take a retread because we had no #2, Schiltz, Stevens and even Dane Evans would be the only guys I'd look at.  But why pay the retread $200k to probably not play than take a chance on a rookie ELC @$100k for 2 years?

And even though it may not be pretty, Prukop could start a couple of games for us in a pinch.  Just make it a run-heavy game plan.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

If the Bombers lose Dru Brown who should the Bombers go after in free agency. These are some of the Qb's who could be available.
Arbuckle
Davis
Dolega
Evans
Fine
Locksley
Schitz
Stevens
I think I would go after Schiltz as he has a bit of room to improve and can learn the offense for two seasons before we would need him to lead the team. Stevens is also interesting as he has a bit of an upside. Davis, Arbuckle and Evans are as good as they are going to be so I would likely give those three a pass.

Can't get too excited as many on that list are going to be retained as #2 by their current teams, of those cast adrift I would pick Fine as he might be the only one they could budget for around or under $100k.  He has good mobility, seems to be smart, and given better protection to throw than Sask. could provide, might have half decent accuracy.  Maybe under Zach he could develop as well as Brown has. 

[Pigskin]

If the Bombers lose Dru Brown who should the Bombers go after in free agency. These are some of the Qb's who could be available.
Arbuckle
Davis
Dolega
Evans
Fine
Locksley
Schitz
Stevens
I think I would go after Schiltz as he has a bit of room to improve and can learn the offense for two seasons before we would need him to lead the team. Stevens is also interesting as he has a bit of an upside. Davis, Arbuckle and Evans are as good as they are going to be so I would likely give those three a pass.

Stevens was resigned by Calgary on November 29th.

[Jesse]

Collaros starts, Prukop is in his short yardage role and graduates to emergency back-up, we bring in a new developmental guy.

[Blue In BC]

I like Brown and he might end up being a starter somewhere in 2023. OTOH, he won't have the best RB in the league. He won't have the best or close to the best OL or set of receivers. What would he look like in 2023 Riderland?

It will be interesting to see what level of offers he receives from other teams. The reality is that he's started probably less than 6 games. Some of those were near pre season rosters in meaningless games. A couple were due to early in game injuries to Collaros where he's come in and done quite well.  He's only had 102 completions which is a good but small sample size.

If we lose him I'm inclined to go after Dolegala who could become our # 2 and short yardage guy. His size is intimidating IMO and he has some skill. On a roster better than the Riders he might do well. Has completed 216 passes.

The list of potential free agent QB's is not that extensive. I don't see any interest in Arbuckle, Evans, Davis, Fine or Locksley being better. Schiltz perhaps but he's done less in a longer time frame.

[Pete]

the real issues may be if Bethel Thompson and/or Shreveler return to the cfl.
I could see the following scenarios with Hamilton, and Ottawa both needing starting qbs

Hamilton  = Bethel Thomas with Powell as a back up
Ottawa  = goes after Streveler backed up by Crum
Edmonton = goes after Masoli to back up Ford

if Streveler or Thomas don't return then Dru Brown becomes the target. ( I know there is a local  bias towards Brown over Streveler but with just a limited number of games he may just be another Arbuckle.)

BC likely retains Evans as #2, Calgary will look for a number two but they don't really go after free agents, Sask goes with Harris/Domigala, Mtrl Fajardo/Evans, which leaves Arbuckle, Fine, Shlitz, Cornilius as #3s which we may look to as a #2 if we lose brown.

[blue_gold_84]

Bethel-Thompson. Streveler.

In what universe is the latter a starting QB in the CFL - and what team is ponying up QB1 money for him?

[blue_or_die]

the real issues may be if Bethel Thomas and/or Shreveler return to the cfl.
I could see the following scenarios with Hamilton, and Ottawa both needing starting qbs

Hamilton  = Bethel Thomas with Powers as a back up
Ottawa  = goes after Streveler backed up by Crum
Edmonton = goes after Masoli to back up Ford

if Streveler or Thomas don't return then Dru Brown becomes the target. ( I know there is a local  bias towards Brown over Streveler but with just a limited number of games he may just be another Arbuckle.)

BC likely retains Evans as #2, Calgary will look for a number two but they don't really go after free agents, Sask goes with Harris/Domigala, Mtrl Fajardo/Evans, which leaves Arbuckle, Fine, Shlitz, Cornilius as #3s which we may look to as a #2 if we lose brown.

That would be interesting. Never heard of either of those guys.

[blue_gold_84]

That would be interesting. Never heard of either of those guys.

Hahaha

[Blue72]

How about Toronto?s backup. He looked good also

[blue_gold_84]

How about Toronto?s backup. He looked good also

He's not a free agent and remains under contract with the Argos for 2024.

https://www.cfl.ca/fa24/#ARGOS

[Pete]

Bethel-Thompson. Streveler.

In what universe is the latter a starting QB in the CFL - and what team is ponying up QB1 money for him?

I don't want to this into another streveler thread, but you don't last 3 yrs in the nfl without talent. Has any other current cfl qb even had a taste of the nfl?
I know the argument about his unique skills, but in the right situation with a 1a or 1b qb  he could be a real factor. Maybe not starter money but at 250-300k along with Jake Maier, Edm Jones. Ottawa Crum or even Hamilrton Powell could make a strong tandem

[Stats Junkie]

Chad Powers was a walk-on at Penn State a year or so back.

Powers didn't grade well but his arm caught the eye of offensive assistant Danny O'Brien.

Chad Powers audition at Penn State

[Pete]

gteat video (sorry for the misspellings rough day) but we should recruit chad powers

[theaardvark]

If we lose Dru, its next recruit up. 

We have a lot of good QB's on our neg list, and if we can't sign one of those, there are more.

We do NOT want a retread or almost was...

[Pete]

the issue is having a #2 with no cfl experience, especially with OShea/Buck . Offensively its the hardest position to learn vs american football. We do bring in rookie qbs and see what they have but it's hard to bank on one. (remember Pigrome?) it all depends on whose available ie Shlitz Powell. It would be a hard pass on Arbuckle, Corneius, and FIne

[TecnoGenius]

Stevens was resigned by Calgary on November 29th.

Totally not shocked.  He's a keeper as a great SY and let's-see-what-we-got possible #2 or #1 down the road.

We do bring in rookie qbs and see what they have but it's hard to bank on one. (remember Pigrome?)

Actually PiggyT looked pretty good when allowed to throw.  What he sucked at was SY, both here and wherever else he went to in 2023.  If nothing else was around, brining PiggyT back to be #2 / dev guy could be interesting.

... unless the "head case" stuff we were catching glimpses of are for realz.  He seemed to be in his own little world.  But then again, so did MBT.  We'd have to see how it plays out, outside of the SY plays.

[Pigskin]

the issue is having a #2 with no cfl experience, especially with OShea/Buck . Offensively its the hardest position to learn vs american football. We do bring in rookie qbs and see what they have but it's hard to bank on one. (remember Pigrome?) it all depends on whose available ie Shlitz Powell. It would be a hard pass on Arbuckle, Corneius, and FIne

\


Powell and Pigrome aren't free agents, so we don't have to worry about either of those guys. Shiltz is a guy I like. He is very mobile, and with are O I think he could do well. 

[bluebeard]

Yup, if Brown walks then we find the next Brown.  If we did it before, we can do it again.

Not to be too harsh, but that entire list of guys sucks and I bet the number of those guys being a desired #1 starter on any team in 3 years will be zero or one.  Sure, some guys will be forced into starter due to injury or horrifically bad GM moves, like Fine and Dolegala were in 2023, but no one will be chasing after any of these guys to be their legit #1 for $500k in FA.

I agree with both you you that Schiltz is the most promising of the bunch.  He seems like he could be a VAJ -- in the league forever and finally shows some ability to be a #1.  The older ones in that crowd are clearly perennial #2's or SY guys.  The younger ones may have 1 guy going somewhere, but I doubt it.  Stevens could be interesting if he starts showing he can throw, but for now he strikes me as a LeFevor (superb SY guy, bad at everything else).

Our last 2 of 3 #2 QB finds turned out way better than anyone could have imagined (Strev & Brown).  McGuire was a bust as a possible #1, but was great SY.  I'd call Dom a bust too, as he really never became more than a SY guy, and he had plenty of chances (starts as #1).  But the fact Brown & Strev could have been / were / should be decent #1 starters shows that our scouts can find that next guy on ELC.  So let's do it again!

If I absolutely had to take a retread because we had no #2, Schiltz, Stevens and even Dane Evans would be the only guys I'd look at.  But why pay the retread $200k to probably not play than take a chance on a rookie ELC @$100k for 2 years?

And even though it may not be pretty, Prukop could start a couple of games for us in a pinch.  Just make it a run-heavy game plan.

Really hard now that the XFL and the USFL are also looking for the next good QB that the NFL has missed.  Just to many teams looking for the better QB.  If both the XFL and the USFL folded we could incorporate some of those QBs into the CFL.  Until they do, it will be hard slugging to find the next great QB.

[Blue In BC]

Really hard now that the XFL and the USFL are also looking for the next good QB that the NFL has missed.  Just to many teams looking for the better QB.  If both the XFL and the USFL folded we could incorporate some of those QBs into the CFL.  Until they do, it will be hard slugging to find the next great QB.

Did you know that the XFL and USFL leagues have merged? Reports are that only 8 teams will be part of the new league. 8 teams will be distributed in some way. However, that will make the pool bigger not smaller. In theory there will be 8 entire rosters that will result in player releases etc.  I did hear something about remaining teams expanding their rosters but that's a TBD.

[Lincoln Locomotive]

Ideally it would be a pipe dream to retain Dru however that could only happen if Zach restructured his remaining contract to allow the Bombers to Dru more than just a backups salary.    Can't see that happening though as Zach still had great numbers last season, despite his penchant for throwing untimely picks.    Personally I believe it would allow Dru even more time to learn his craft while making a decent salary and stepping in as a well groomed starter when Zach retires.   As I said it's a "pipe dream" at best and unfortunately, it's not steeped in reality!   Dare to dream!?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

\


Powell and Pigrome aren't free agents, so we don't have to worry about either of those guys. Shiltz is a guy I like. He is very mobile, and with are O I think he could do well. 

Hamilton will hang onto Powell for the future, but there is a good chance Pigrome gets cut based on what the RB's intend to do with Masoli, whether they go after Brown or any other QB's in FA, or bring into TC. Crum seems to have established himself as the likely #2, and Tyrie Adams probably slots as #3.  Almost anyway you slice it Pigrome ends up as the #4 QB.  Forgot about Arbuckle, so he's in the mix too.

If Walters knows he's going to lose Brown, trading his rights to the RB's for Adams or Crum would be an excellent move.

[Blue In BC]

Hamilton will hang onto Powell for the future, but there is a good chance Pigrome gets cut based on what the RB's intend to do with Masoli, whether they go after Brown or any other QB's in FA, or bring into TC. Crum seems to have established himself as the likely #2, and Tyrie Adams probably slots as #3.  Almost anyway you slice it Pigrome ends up as the #4 QB.  Forgot about Arbuckle, so he's in the mix too.

If Walters knows he's going to lose Brown, trading his rights to the RB's for Adams or Crum would be an excellent move.

You don't often see trading a players rights that is going to be a free agent in 60 days. It does happen but for a shot at a top player for a conditional pick based on that layer signing with the team.

I don't think Brown falls into this category. There will be a window where potential free agents can discuss signing elsewhere with a trade being necessary.

[Blueforlife]

I love to develop but I would be happy to see someone brought in as next year we will have a shot at the cup again if we can retain our key vets and bring some killer nenew faces in to fill the gaps.  A healthy competition at camp at QB will be welcome.

I wouldn't want to have to give up anything to bring in a #2 QB.

[TecnoGenius]

Powell and Pigrome aren't free agents, so we don't have to worry about either of those guys.

Like TLB said, a lot of "signed" guys (especially newer guys) could be cut outright.  I don't think any non-legit-#1-QB is safe in their job at the moment and I could see a lot of QB movement, whether cuts, trades, whatever.

I know KW doesn't operate this way... but why not sign Dru at around what he'd take to stay here (say $25k less than his other best offer?) with an eye on shedding him in the early/mid season as trade bait?  Realistically what is Dru worth if people think he can be a #1 but no one is sure?  $250k?  $300k?  Surely not more?  Ok, so sign Dru for that, knowing we can't afford it and just sit back and wait for all the iffy QBs to prove once again they don't "have it", and then dangle Dru at those desperate teams for a 1RDP and maybe a good IMP we need if holes arise.  It's a crazy idea, but 2018-2020 TOR was hoarding quality QBs (including Zach) for no discernable reason and doing something similar!

The best part of that idea is if (heaven forbid) Zach goes down early in the season we have our winning backup guy in place vs a brand new dev guy.

What do you think SSK would have traded for Dru once it was clear Fine and Dolegala couldn't win anything?  Some team(s) will be in that boat again in 2024, guaranteed.

[Lincoln Locomotive]

Like TLB said, a lot of "signed" guys (especially newer guys) could be cut outright.  I don't think any non-legit-#1-QB is safe in their job at the moment and I could see a lot of QB movement, whether cuts, trades, whatever.

I know KW doesn't operate this way... but why not sign Dru at around what he'd take to stay here (say $25k less than his other best offer?) with an eye on shedding him in the early/mid season as trade bait?  Realistically what is Dru worth if people think he can be a #1 but no one is sure?  $250k?  $300k?  Surely not more?  Ok, so sign Dru for that, knowing we can't afford it and just sit back and wait for all the iffy QBs to prove once again they don't "have it", and then dangle Dru at those desperate teams for a 1RDP and maybe a good IMP we need if holes arise.  It's a crazy idea, but 2018-2020 TOR was hoarding quality QBs (including Zach) for no discernable reason and doing something similar!

The best part of that idea is if (heaven forbid) Zach goes down early in the season we have our winning backup guy in place vs a brand new dev guy.

What do you think SSK would have traded for Dru once it was clear Fine and Dolegala couldn't win anything?  Some team(s) will be in that boat again in 2024, guaranteed.

Makes sense....

[Jesse]

Like TLB said, a lot of "signed" guys (especially newer guys) could be cut outright.  I don't think any non-legit-#1-QB is safe in their job at the moment and I could see a lot of QB movement, whether cuts, trades, whatever.

I know KW doesn't operate this way... but why not sign Dru at around what he'd take to stay here (say $25k less than his other best offer?) with an eye on shedding him in the early/mid season as trade bait?  Realistically what is Dru worth if people think he can be a #1 but no one is sure?  $250k?  $300k?  Surely not more?  Ok, so sign Dru for that, knowing we can't afford it and just sit back and wait for all the iffy QBs to prove once again they don't "have it", and then dangle Dru at those desperate teams for a 1RDP and maybe a good IMP we need if holes arise.  It's a crazy idea, but 2018-2020 TOR was hoarding quality QBs (including Zach) for no discernable reason and doing something similar!

The best part of that idea is if (heaven forbid) Zach goes down early in the season we have our winning backup guy in place vs a brand new dev guy.

What do you think SSK would have traded for Dru once it was clear Fine and Dolegala couldn't win anything?  Some team(s) will be in that boat again in 2024, guaranteed.

Why would Dru agree to that?

It puts him in the worst possible situation when he moves to a new team. If he's going to leave, he's going to want to pick what he believes is the best place for him and actually go through training camp with that team.

[blue_gold_84]

I'm just here for the off-season mental gymnastics. **munches popcorn**

[theaardvark]

Really hard now that the XFL and the USFL are also looking for the next good QB that the NFL has missed.  Just to many teams looking for the better QB.  If both the XFL and the USFL folded we could incorporate some of those QBs into the CFL.  Until they do, it will be hard slugging to find the next great QB.

USFL/XFL had some "preoven at that level" QB's already/// and now 16 teams are dropping to 8... so, if anything, there will be fallout from there, not absorption.

[bluebeard]

USFL/XFL had some "preoven at that level" QB's already/// and now 16 teams are dropping to 8... so, if anything, there will be fallout from there, not absorption.

I didn't realize that the USFL and XFL had agreed with the America Feds on this.  The last time I read anything, they still were apart on how many teams they wanted.

[Blue In BC]

I didn't realize that the USFL and XFL had agreed with the America Feds on this.  The last time I read anything, they still were apart on how many teams they wanted.

The reports so far say only 8 teams survive but it may not be written in stone quite yet. I also heard roster size could increase to 90 players but I find that hard to believe either. Both leagues lost money. I don't see keeping almost all the players from 16 teams but playing less games makes this financially possible.

I'm honestly not sure the new league survives past mid season. It's essentially just another start up with some references to two failed leagues from 2023.

[theaardvark]

The reports so far say only 8 teams survive but it may not be written in stone quite yet. I also heard roster size could increase to 90 players but I find that hard to believe either. Both leagues lost money. I don't see keeping almost all the players from 16 teams but playing less games makes this financially possible.

I'm honestly not sure the new league survives past mid season. It's essentially just another start up with some references to two failed leagues from 2023.

If they adopt the NCAA policy of not paying players, it becomes a lot more affordable...

We all know, there are semi-pro leagues, senior leagues, lots of players play for little or no cash. 

Will the level of play be much worse with volunteer players looking to get back on the NFL radar?  Maybe make the pay so minimal if hurts, but cover expenses and medical?  I'm sure they can fill 8 rosters with guys full enough of themselves to believe this is their ticket to the show...  I know there were lots of players in the USFL/XFL that were wildly overpaid for what the teams got from them.  Maybe $250/week plus incentives.

Pretty sure that the USFL/XFL merger is not going to create a league where the level of play is better than the CFL, not by a long shot.  What they put together for their so successful seasons has been pretty terrible, and that is reflected in their TV numbers and fan turnout. 

Maybe Disney gets involved and has the league in a bubble on their grounds... or something else whacky like that.  ESPN rents a stadium...


Either way, that's 24 less QB prospects that will not have an option of "staying closer to home".  Not that there is any shortage of QB prospects that we can bring into camp... not sure how many of our neg list QB's will have an NFL sniff...  and if they are on our neg list, they must be worth a look.

[Blue In BC]

If they adopt the NCAA policy of not paying players, it becomes a lot more affordable...

We all know, there are semi-pro leagues, senior leagues, lots of players play for little or no cash. 

Will the level of play be much worse with volunteer players looking to get back on the NFL radar?  Maybe make the pay so minimal if hurts, but cover expenses and medical?  I'm sure they can fill 8 rosters with guys full enough of themselves to believe this is their ticket to the show...  I know there were lots of players in the USFL/XFL that were wildly overpaid for what the teams got from them.  Maybe $250/week plus incentives.

Pretty sure that the USFL/XFL merger is not going to create a league where the level of play is better than the CFL, not by a long shot.  What they put together for their so successful seasons has been pretty terrible, and that is reflected in their TV numbers and fan turnout. 

Maybe Disney gets involved and has the league in a bubble on their grounds... or something else whacky like that.  ESPN rents a stadium...


Either way, that's 24 less QB prospects that will not have an option of "staying closer to home".  Not that there is any shortage of QB prospects that we can bring into camp... not sure how many of our neg list QB's will have an NFL sniff...  and if they are on our neg list, they must be worth a look.

IMO there will be another 400 or so players available that might have been on XFL or USFL rosters last year. Why would they take less money to be 4th through 8th on any given depth chart when they could could be closer to a role in the CFL with better PR money?

[TecnoGenius]

Why would Dru agree to that?

It puts him in the worst possible situation when he moves to a new team. If he's going to leave, he's going to want to pick what he believes is the best place for him and actually go through training camp with that team.

Ya, it's a long shot.  Basically Dru would agree to it because we'd basically match the money (once you factor in post-season), he gets to keep winning here (most places he can go will be sub-.500 even with Dru), stay with all his buds to try for a GC ring again, and not have to change-up his routine of living in WPG in-season.  And because we would not whisper a word of our actual plans to him.  The trade-bait idea would remain a closely guarded secret.

If TOR was able to afford 4 legit potential-starting QBs that one season and then trade or shed them in-season, then why not us?

But in the end, we may be the only ones valuing Dru highly, and it may just be us fans and not KW/MOS.  He could be the next Franklin or Jennings, looking like gold in relief on a #1 team, but in reality a great big bust.  If all the other GMs think that way, then Dru's only option may be to stay here for decent #2 money with a little bump up from last season.  And he still gets the Zach-succession carrot for 2026 dangled in front of his face...

[Blue In BC]

When are potential free agents allowed to speak with other CFL teams? I know there is an early window before free agency but can't remember exactly how early that happens.  I think it's only open for a couple of weeks early so perhaps the beginning of Feb?

By then, many potential free agents will have been re-signed with their teams.

If teams have any 2023 SMS left now is the time to use it up.

Just a feeling that the Bombers will have some left. We didn't have too many players hit the 1 game IR which would have been part of the budget. We also had some players sit on the 6 game IR which would have saved some SMS.

That said, we're down to a couple of weeks to use it or lose it. OTOH, players can be signed with bonus paid from 2024 SMS as well, so let's get a few players on new deals.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

When are potential free agents allowed to speak with other CFL teams? I know there is an early window before free agency but can't remember exactly how early that happens.  I think it's only open for a couple of weeks early so perhaps the beginning of Feb?

By then, many potential free agents will have been re-signed with their teams.

If teams have any 2023 SMS left now is the time to use it up.

Just a feeling that the Bombers will have some left. We didn't have too many players hit the 1 game IR which would have been part of the budget. We also had some players sit on the 6 game IR which would have saved some SMS.

That said, we're down to a couple of weeks to use it or lose it. OTOH, players can be signed with bonus paid from 2024 SMS as well, so let's get a few players on new deals.

Yah, not sure what the delay is unless they're holding announcements till after Christmas to generate more buzz.  They should have plenty of 23 cap left over considering how many vets were placed on the 6-game at the start of the season with a few taking multiple turns.  Also much of the money budgeted for Lawler was not spent for the first 8 games he did not play, which also goes back into the kitty.

[Pigskin]

Yah, not sure what the delay is unless they're holding announcements till after Christmas to generate more buzz.  They should have plenty of 23 cap left over considering how many vets were placed on the 6-game at the start of the season with a few taking multiple turns.  Also much of the money budgeted for Lawler was not spent for the first 8 games he did not play, which also goes back into the kitty.

You could be right, as our Bomber border signed a new deal before leaving Winnipeg for the holidays and it hasn't been announced yet.

[Blue In BC]

You could be right, as our Bomber border signed a new deal before leaving Winnipeg for the holidays and it hasn't been announced yet.

Without disclosing a confidence, is it an important veteran player?

[Pigskin]

Without disclosing a confidence, is it an important veteran player?

Starter, just coming off his entry level deal. Depending on what he signed for, mite have to charge him some rent next season. lol. Excellent kid, super respectful.

[theaardvark]

Starter, just coming off his entry level deal. Depending on what he signed for, mite have to charge him some rent next season. lol. Excellent kid, super respectful.

I can think of 4 that match that... 2 Americans, 2 Canadians...  any of them are good re-signings.

[TecnoGenius]

Also much of the money budgeted for Lawler was not spent for the first 8 games he did not play, which also goes back into the kitty.

Do we know if we regain that Lawler legal trouble cap space??  It's not like he was on the 6GIR.  And we signed him thinking he was going to play immediately.  I'm not sure SMS gives space back for suspensions and legal trouble issues...  Also, ignoring the cap for a second, we probably had to pay him his real-money contracted salary for his missed games, too.

What a poop-show of a debacle.  I hope we never do that again!  It was the worst misjudgement since the Darian Durant fiasco.  We seem to get bit by those every few years.  Let's hope it's all behind us.

[TecnoGenius]

Starter, just coming off his entry level deal. Depending on what he signed for, mite have to charge him some rent next season. lol. Excellent kid, super respectful.

I can think of 4 that match that... 2 Americans, 2 Canadians...  any of them are good re-signings.

Yup Pigskin... you're giving away too much info!!  The uberfans who sleep on printed copies of the roster can figure out your puzzle.  You've given us enough clues over so many months 

[Blue In BC]

Do we know if we regain that Lawler legal trouble cap space??  It's not like he was on the 6GIR.  And we signed him thinking he was going to play immediately.  I'm not sure SMS gives space back for suspensions and legal trouble issues...  Also, ignoring the cap for a second, we probably had to pay him his real-money contracted salary for his missed games, too.

What a poop-show of a debacle.  I hope we never do that again!  It was the worst misjudgement since the Darian Durant fiasco.  We seem to get bit by those every few years.  Let's hope it's all behind us.

Players don't get paid while suspended. So in theory cap space gained. Don't over think it.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Yup Pigskin... you're giving away too much info!!  The uberfans who sleep on printed copies of the roster can figure out your puzzle.  You've given us enough clues over so many months 

Lawler probably received a signing bonus, but he would not receive any payment for the games he missed.  This will be an important earning year for Kenny making up for money lost last season.

[theaardvark]

There are always the "restructured" contracts that frontload signing bonuses to reduce overall cap hits.  They only work for players you are pretty sure will play the whole season.  There are a few durable players that meet those requirements, hopefully that helps a little with the cap, and that Walters avails himself of the option.

[Pete]

Structuring a deal for schoen say 3 years at 175,  250,250 might work as lawlers deal will be up

[theaardvark]

Or, you can offer Schoen $250, with $175 as a signing bonus...

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Or, you can offer Schoen $250, with $175 as a signing bonus...

Pretty sure signing bonuses are considered within the salary cap, so not sure what advantage you're suggesting the team would find.  For the player it's money upfront non-dependent on performance, but the payout can also be the reason they get cut.

[theaardvark]

Pretty sure signing bonuses are considered within the salary cap, so not sure what advantage you're suggesting the team would find.  For the player it's money upfront non-dependent on performance, but the payout can also be the reason they get cut.

$250 with $175 signing bonus yields a better take home than $300k without the bonus.  Bonuses are taxed completely different in the US.  If the player is not one you are worried about spending most of his time in the tub (no SMS relief on bonuses for 6 game IR), then you can make these kinds of deals and "save" SMS by not having to pay as much in total.  There have been years when many of our stars did this, restructured existing deals lower with more bonus. Bryant was one of those, but I'm not sure he'd be one I'd take the chance on this year.

Yes, there is the risk if you pay out a signing bonus that the player might not earn it, either through injury, or worse, getting cut.  So you only do it with guys you are confident will earn the deal, and will stay out of the tub.  Many of our younger FA's would fit that bill...

Plus, getting cash in hand, regardless the tax implications, is always an incentive. 

You rarely see an NFL contract that isn't signing bonus heavy.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

$250 with $175 signing bonus yields a better take home than $300k without the bonus.  Bonuses are taxed completely different in the US.  If the player is not one you are worried about spending most of his time in the tub (no SMS relief on bonuses for 6 game IR), then you can make these kinds of deals and "save" SMS by not having to pay as much in total.  There have been years when many of our stars did this, restructured existing deals lower with more bonus. Bryant was one of those, but I'm not sure he'd be one I'd take the chance on this year.

Yes, there is the risk if you pay out a signing bonus that the player might not earn it, either through injury, or worse, getting cut.  So you only do it with guys you are confident will earn the deal, and will stay out of the tub.  Many of our younger FA's would fit that bill...

Plus, getting cash in hand, regardless the tax implications, is always an incentive. 

You rarely see an NFL contract that isn't signing bonus heavy.

This didn't pass the logic test so just did some Googling and I don't believe it's true. The IRS considers company bonuses ?supplemental income,? they are taxed just like any other income you make. https://www.cnbc.com/select/how-company-bonus-is-taxed/

I do believe there may be some savings for American players due to laws related to earning income in Canada but having an American primary residence but that probably wades into "real accountant knowledge" territory.

[Blue In BC]

This didn't pass the logic test so just did some Googling and I don't believe it's true. The IRS considers company bonuses ?supplemental income,? they are taxed just like any other income you make. https://www.cnbc.com/select/how-company-bonus-is-taxed/

I do believe there may be some savings for American players due to laws related to earning income in Canada but having an American primary residence but that probably wades into "real accountant knowledge" territory.

It's a primary reason why some signing bonus's are so big.

[theaardvark]

It has something to do with signing bonuses only being taxed in the home state, but game cheques being taxed in the state/province they are earned in. 

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

It has something to do with signing bonuses only being taxed in the home state, but game cheques being taxed in the state/province they are earned in. 

I've heard repeatedly there is an advantage to receiving much of the salary as a bonus, so you may be correct, less tax.

[TecnoGenius]

It has something to do with signing bonuses only being taxed in the home state, but game cheques being taxed in the state/province they are earned in. 

Maybe.  Just a guess, but perhaps the tax is paid where you earned the money.  If you're sitting at home in Atlanta and WFC pays you, they probably pay you the full amount and you must remit USA tax on it as locally-in-USA earned income.  And that tax would be at the much much MUCH lower USA rate.  Whereas money earned while you're in WPG has tax withheld and paid to MB/CAN.

I have no idea how the all-year-Winnipeggers (like Willie & Biggie) would be taxed on the bonus, though.  You'd think since they were both in Canada and >6mo Canada-livers they wouldn't be able to escape the Canada taxman.

I have long-term full-year living-in-Canada USA friends and they certainly get tax withheld and pay all the MB/CAN tax.  The only thing the USA has to do with it is you have to file with them and pay tax on anything weird that might fall out of USA deductions, like RRSPs.

I'm sure navigating all of this is 100% aided by experts @WFC, and is one of the things players are talking about when they say at pressers WFC makes it all easy and smooth.

[theaardvark]

Maybe.  Just a guess, but perhaps the tax is paid where you earned the money.  If you're sitting at home in Atlanta and WFC pays you, they probably pay you the full amount and you must remit USA tax on it as locally-in-USA earned income.  And that tax would be at the much much MUCH lower USA rate.  Whereas money earned while you're in WPG has tax withheld and paid to MB/CAN.

I have no idea how the all-year-Winnipeggers (like Willie & Biggie) would be taxed on the bonus, though.  You'd think since they were both in Canada and >6mo Canada-livers they wouldn't be able to escape the Canada taxman.

I have long-term full-year living-in-Canada USA friends and they certainly get tax withheld and pay all the MB/CAN tax.  The only thing the USA has to do with it is you have to file with them and pay tax on anything weird that might fall out of USA deductions, like RRSPs.

I'm sure navigating all of this is 100% aided by experts @WFC, and is one of the things players are talking about when they say at pressers WFC makes it all easy and smooth.

Making a change in Lawlers deal, or signing Schoen, they can take advantage of these better tax rates, if they live in low tax states.  Not sure the tax rates in Kansas or Cali, of if they still live there.  Floridiand Nevada are low tax states.... 

[VictorRomano]

Yes, there is the risk if you pay out a signing bonus that the player might not earn it, either through injury, or worse, getting cut.  So you only do it with guys you are confident will earn the deal, and will stay out of the tub.  Many of our younger FA's would fit that bill...

Not a fan of big signing bonuses.  It hasn't been that long since Bombers signed Darian Durant, and he took the bonus money then bailed on us before the season started.  Fool me once for $70k.....

[blue_gold_84]

Not a fan of big signing bonuses.  It hasn't been that long since Bombers signed Darian Durant, and he took the bonus money then bailed on us before the season started.  Fool me once for $70k.....

I don't think Schoen would sign a shiny new contract here and then decide to retire before turning 28 years old.

He's also not a petulant turd like Durant is.