Status Updates of both our OC and DC

Started by Lincoln Locomotive, November 30, 2023, 03:56:13 PM

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BLUEBOMBER

I believe Jordan Younger would make a fine DC one day.. maybe he is learning as much as he can from Hall now.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: BLUEBOMBER on December 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AM
I believe Jordan Younger would make a fine DC one day.. maybe he is learning as much as he can from Hall now.

+1

He's learning from one of the best and would be a great option to take Hall's place when he retires.
#forthew
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Don't be a Rich.

DM83

How did Ritchie Hall nit take away the hutch passes, nor blitz Fajardo?

TecnoGenius

Quote from: DM83 on December 11, 2023, 09:46:45 PM
How did Ritchie Hall nit take away the hutch passes, nor blitz Fajardo?

Great questions.  That hitch kept frustrating me to no end at the game, because we all know it's basically Cody's go-to play, and it's a great answer to our league-beating pass rush.

I think we did a great job limiting most of those hitches to 5Y-ish.  So clearly Hall was scheming for it, and maybe adjusting as we saw the frequency at which they wanted to use them.  But then MTL did something strange?  On 2nd and 3-6 they often went to a harder mid / short-mid pass.  So when we were trying to stop them getting the easy 3, they went for the more opened up 10-15.  They didn't really do what you'd expect.  Just look at that last MTL drive: it really didn't make much sense.  It was high risk, but it worked probably because it was all wrong and thus we focused the defenders in the wrong place, opening up the harder shot.

By the 4th Q we should have been stopping most of this hitches at the LoS, as most teams do, and it's rather embarrassing MTL was still gaining solid yardage out of them.  Did we get a single LoS stuff or tackle for a loss on one of those hitches??

I strongly believe Calvillo and Thorpe thoroughly out-schemed us, especially in the 2nd half.  They knew we'd play it just like the TOR GC, and not be bold, so they came prepared to stop our same old same old.  And so, with a bit of 3rd down luck, they did.

This GC must hold the record for most hitch screens thrown.  I haven't read the Riderfans GDT thread yet, but I bet those Cody haters were having a field day laughing at all the hitch screens!!  More than anyone does, they know Cody.
Never go full Rider!

DM83

Yes Techno, your thread is a perfect summation, of what the Bombers did not do.

I would have lined up on their WRs and played in a man look, taken away Fajardo pre snap read, and make him go elsewhere. That is make him throw downfield. 

I suspect the Bomber coaches do not either know or dislike combo coverages, or zone blitzes.  Fajardo is not a good reader.  Take away his first read , that is the corners position of a ten yard pre-snap alignment.  Then he would be forced to go elsewhere, down field..  bring the blitz.  A QBs natural instinct is throw a short, quick pass over the middle.  That where a zone blitz comes in.  The LB that doesn?t come, sits at five, looking for the crosser. To aide in taking away other to the slots the half?s and C can switch in who goes short, and who sits, emphasis on taking away a ?hot ? to the slots.

Many QBs think it?s man, but really it?s a basic .three deep zone, with the D focusing on taking away their next best receiver. We didn?t seem to do anything except play a soft man, and it killed us and lost the game for us on the. Catch by Philpot for the TD.

And if we didn?t know.  Alignment on the goal line, has the DBs taking away the. Slant, therefore lining up on the receivers inside shoulder.   That is just basic football.

Anyway, Montreal, out coached the Bombers, and deserve the win.
Oh yeah,Sankey was a monster in defense and should have won player of the game. He was the difference maker, on stopping the Bombers offence. Buck without Schoen had little alternatives.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: DM83 on December 25, 2023, 11:15:05 AM
Yes Techno, your thread is a perfect summation, of what the Bombers did not do.

I would have lined up on their WRs and played in a man look, taken away Fajardo pre snap read, and make him go elsewhere. That is make him throw downfield.

I suspect the Bomber coaches do not either know or dislike combo coverages, or zone blitzes.  Fajardo is not a good reader.  Take away his first read , that is the corners position of a ten yard pre-snap alignment.  Then he would be forced to go elsewhere, down field..  bring the blitz.

I noticed that too on rewatch... Cody almost always got (and went to) his 1st read.  Some plays were only 2-3 R out and many had only 2 possible reads... some only 1!!  If Hall had predicted Calvillo's play he could have taken away that one read and Cody would have to turtle.  I think we did that on the final drive when Cody ran for 15: shame Wilson & co lost contain.

Ex-QB Calvillo just called too good a game, and Buck didn't.  Too bad Hall didn't ask Buck what he thought Calvillo was going to do... either that or Buck didn't know.  After all, MTL did look like one team all season and then in the EDF and GC turned into a completely different team.

Quote from: DM83 on December 25, 2023, 11:15:05 AM
A QBs natural instinct is throw a short, quick pass over the middle.  That where a zone blitz comes in.  The LB that doesn?t come, sits at five, looking for the crosser. To aide in taking away other to the slots the half?s and C can switch in who goes short, and who sits, emphasis on taking away a ?hot ? to the slots.

I think Biggie being out ~half the game really cost us.  Not his physical attributes, but his running of the D.  The D was discombobulated whenever he was out.  I wonder what the game would have looked like had Biggie been 100%, took all the practises, and played the whole game.  Or if we had put all our faith in plan B and rolled with that, asking one of the backups to be up to the task.

Quote from: DM83 on December 25, 2023, 11:15:05 AM
Many QBs think it?s man, but really it?s a basic .three deep zone, with the D focusing on taking away their next best receiver. We didn?t seem to do anything except play a soft man, and it killed us and lost the game for us on the. Catch by Philpot for the TD.

The Philpot winning TD was perfectly covered; well, as good as you can with a single man.  Nichols dove in front and was inches away from batting it down.  It was literally the perfect ball and the perfect catch.  What a time for Cody to become Tom Brady.  Ugh.  But then again, it was the normal Cody go-to of a mid ball right in the center... we should have anticipated.  Why were there no mitts getting up in the lane?  Why were there no LBs or DL dropping back?  Why was BA37 not crossing the other way to paste Philpot?  I'm pretty sure Hall guessed they would go for the dink & dunk on 1st, but they went for it all.  Should have known since it was clear on the 3rd & 5 30Y pass that MTL was wanting to go big or go home.

Quote from: DM83 on December 25, 2023, 11:15:05 AM
Anyway, Montreal, out coached the Bombers, and deserve the win.
Oh yeah,Sankey was a monster in defense and should have won player of the game. He was the difference maker, on stopping the Bombers offence. Buck without Schoen had little alternatives.

Schoen was on field the whole game, from what I saw.  It was Biggie coming in and out all the time.  However, Schoen was doing nothing much of anything.  Really didn't make an impact at all.  Was basically more useless than MTL's 4th (or 5th!) read receiver.  Should have played McCrae, especially since we were doing a run-mostly O anyhow.  Sets with Brady/Demski/McCrae all in the backfield or crossing could have been hard to defend.

Oh well, I hope they've (our OC/DC) learned from their mistakes for next year.  And MOS needs to ask for a more bold & aggressive overall plan.
Never go full Rider!

Pigskin

Quote from: TecnoGenius on December 27, 2023, 04:07:07 AM
I noticed that too on rewatch... Cody almost always got (and went to) his 1st read.  Some plays were only 2-3 R out and many had only 2 possible reads... some only 1!!  If Hall had predicted Calvillo's play he could have taken away that one read and Cody would have to turtle.  I think we did that on the final drive when Cody ran for 15: shame Wilson & co lost contain.

Ex-QB Calvillo just called too good a game, and Buck didn't.  Too bad Hall didn't ask Buck what he thought Calvillo was going to do... either that or Buck didn't know.  After all, MTL did look like one team all season and then in the EDF and GC turned into a completely different team.

I think Biggie being out ~half the game really cost us.  Not his physical attributes, but his running of the D.  The D was discombobulated whenever he was out.  I wonder what the game would have looked like had Biggie been 100%, took all the practises, and played the whole game.  Or if we had put all our faith in plan B and rolled with that, asking one of the backups to be up to the task.

The Philpot winning TD was perfectly covered; well, as good as you can with a single man.  Nichols dove in front and was inches away from batting it down.  It was literally the perfect ball and the perfect catch.  What a time for Cody to become Tom Brady.  Ugh.  But then again, it was the normal Cody go-to of a mid ball right in the center... we should have anticipated.  Why were there no mitts getting up in the lane?  Why were there no LBs or DL dropping back?  Why was BA37 not crossing the other way to paste Philpot?  I'm pretty sure Hall guessed they would go for the dink & dunk on 1st, but they went for it all.  Should have known since it was clear on the 3rd & 5 30Y pass that MTL was wanting to go big or go home.

Schoen was on field the whole game, from what I saw.  It was Biggie coming in and out all the time.  However, Schoen was doing nothing much of anything.  Really didn't make an impact at all.  Was basically more useless than MTL's 4th (or 5th!) read receiver.  Should have played McCrae, especially since we were doing a run-mostly O anyhow.  Sets with Brady/Demski/McCrae all in the backfield or crossing could have been hard to defend.

Oh well, I hope they've (our OC/DC) learned from their mistakes for next year.  And MOS needs to ask for a more bold & aggressive overall plan.

Looked like it was Houston covering Philpot.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Lincoln Locomotive

Quote from: Pigskin on December 27, 2023, 02:43:05 PM
Looked like it was Houston covering Philpot.
it was and he was an inch or two from tipping it away.....perfectly thrown balls are hard to defend.    You know sometimes the other team makes a great play and they it several plays together on their final drive.   
Bomber fan for life

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Pigskin on December 27, 2023, 02:43:05 PM
Looked like it was Houston covering Philpot.

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on December 27, 2023, 03:50:28 PM
it was and he was an inch or two from tipping it away.....perfectly thrown balls are hard to defend.    You know sometimes the other team makes a great play and they it several plays together on their final drive.   

Yup, sorry, Houston.  MTL did a great job of distributing the ball evenly to all of their R's, and all of our DBs took a turn getting beat.

Houston played that last play about as close as you can.  The fact he was within inches of a batdown, or 1-2 feet of an INT, is amazing.  That's a hard play to defend (in any game) without help dropping back or another DB crossing the opposite way blowing up the receiver.  The entire final MTL drive was an exercise in amazing impossible plays.  Maybe Cody really had the Jesus Sprinkles that day, as the SSK fans always poke fun at, because Cody's really not that good of a QB.  I can understand the occasional fluke, but a series of them is really disheartening for us WPG fans.

Speaking of DBs... where on earth was BA37??  He was nowhere in the picture on basically every important play of the 4th Q.  Was he hurt too?  On the final drive, after Stanback goes out with a broken shoulder, BA is basically hovering in the middle on run support, never picking a side, and jogging when he does.  And during that he can't deal with Cody's run?

Did BA make one play?  I'm very disappointed in his showing.  Even worse, Cody was staring down his main read the entire 2nd half.  BA should have been able to key on this.  Picking the wrong side is better than sitting useless in the middle.

I really can't explain it.  MTL DBs looked like geniuses and all-stars and ours had one of their worst games of the year... Except Holm... Best INT of the game!  And making DTs all night.  Ironic, since at the start of the season I thought he was our weakest DB.
Never go full Rider!

DM83

On the winning TD catch Alexander came into the picture late.  I assume he had a responsibility to the defenses left.
But yeah these are pro players, and Philpot  and Fajardo, made great plays, in the winning TD.

I am just disappointed in Hall for calling passive defenses.  I am wondering if he should retire.  I didn?t see many great play calling.
lol! Although he led the best team in the league to. Great record and one play away from winning the .third cup in four years.

Plus it was an entertaining season?.but Fajardo

Was this KARMA?  When he hit the goalpost in that semi final a few years ago!
Hey that why they play the game.  And we watch,?.all the unimaginable plays.

But imagine how the Argos must have felt?
Happy New Year!

Pete

I've felt that we don't strategize very well against opposing teams, rather we try to run out own defensive scheme regardless of who were playing, then try to make adjustments after the half.
Meanwhile other teams are coming up with specific schemes to defend Collaros/Olivera. At the end of the season they have a pretty good book on us and as a result our offence is less effective in the playoffs

TecnoGenius

Quote from: DM83 on December 29, 2023, 05:49:44 PM
I am just disappointed in Hall for calling passive defenses.  I am wondering if he should retire.  I didn?t see many great play calling.
lol! Although he led the best team in the league to. Great record and one play away from winning the .third cup in four years.

Hall did bring the house on that last TD play.  Cody got the ball out in about 1.8s, no time for pass rush to get home, unless someone whiffs on their block, which they didn't.  (Someone on the edge almost got through but a WR or RB diverted him at the last second.)

But ya, most of the game was pretty passive and not terribly effective, except for a couple of sacks.  When Cody is doing the timing route thing the pass rush won't work, and much of the big plays of the night were timing routes.  That is the plays you want to drop back a ton of people into coverage, lane-blocking, and crossing blowups.  But we didn't do that.

When we did drop back lots of people into the middle, that's when Calvillo called the wide outs in man.  And then those darn hitch screens... so aggravating.

Calvillo basically out-called Hall on 8 of 10 plays (at least).  Not only that, but he anticipated Hall's call and called the perfect counter play, as shown on that final drive.  Hall brings the house on the TD thinking run or short pass when Calvillo is going for the whole enchilada in one shot.

Half of football is just calling the opposite of what the other guy thinks you are calling.  MTL did that perfectly and we pretty much stunk at it.  We only almost succeeded because our execution was so good at times; but never were we getting the explosions or having no defender around.  Like on the Snead and Stanback TDs.  Embarrassing, actually.

Quote from: Pete on December 29, 2023, 06:55:28 PM
I've felt that we don't strategize very well against opposing teams, rather we try to run out own defensive scheme regardless of who were playing, then try to make adjustments after the half.
Meanwhile other teams are coming up with specific schemes to defend Collaros/Olivera. At the end of the season they have a pretty good book on us and as a result our offence is less effective in the playoffs

100% this.  It's the "just another game" emphasis.  They think they'll win just by playing normal Bomber ball.  While that may work much of the time in-season, it's not enough to win you GCs (see: the last 2).  But it's not just our D, it's also 100% our O.  We aren't doing enough unexpected things and wrinkles to exploit what we know about the other team.  Did anyone see even one wrinkle in the GC?  I didn't.  Well, besides Demski sweeping and running 3X more than normal, but no actual play we haven't seen him do all season. The last real wrinkle we saw was the Kenny sweep like 3-4 weeks prior.

The only adjustment to the team we're facing I saw on O for the GC was being scared to air it out because of the INT reputation MTL had gained.  Instead of being scared to mid/deep pass, why weren't we trying to throw it where only our guy could get it?  Why weren't we understanding the novel schemes Thorpe was using.  Why weren't we exploiting their high-risk/high-reward D plan by pretending to do what they expect, then doing the opposite?

If I was Buck I would have been throwing bombs to Kenny or Demski on 1st down in man coverage to the corners, whichever corner the FS doesn't cheat to.  I'd be erring on the side of overthrows vs underthrows so only our go guy can get it, not the trailing defender.  And I'm doing it while on our side of the field, not waiting until we hit the 30 to take the EZ shot, which everyone expects.

We did do one delayed draw on 2nd & long, and that was really the only head-fake, unexpected play all game.

Maybe if Brady doesn't cough up the ball, and maybe if Zach puts more air on the Kenny INT or Kenny out-fights the D, maybe we could have won it with "just Bomber ball".  But it's 2 years in a row that we didn't out-think and out-scheme the opponent.  Do they make the same mistake next year?
Never go full Rider!

dd

#42
We didn?t get out schemed, we got out played when things mattered the most. Face it, the Als made plays to win them the game and we didn?t. Plain and simple. Players on both sides of the ball get paid to make plays and the Als rose to the occasion. Hats off to them. I for one ain?t going to cry in my beer all off season about it, nor torment myself about coulda s and shoulda s. Moving on to 2024.

bluebeard

Good post.  Lets not dwell on it.  Look forward and not behind.

DM83

Two plays don?t make a game?.well sort of?lol!
Fajardo for eight weeks prior to the game was a game manager, couple with the signing of two guys in their defense outplayed and out smarted the defense, and at times the offence.

Why do think Ritchie Hall has a suite reserved at Lions Manner.?  The stupid mis alignment of having the corners play so soft was nauseating.  Fajardo is an adventure throwing anything over fifteen yards.  If we align a heard off the receivers itbtakesmawaynthe hitch pass. Da!