Why is TOR good?

[The Zipp]

Personally I think Dinwiddie hates the riders and wanted to crush them.  He will never admit it...but he is very competitive. 

[Jesse]

How did that happen?  As recently as '19 they were horrifically bad.  In '21 they blew the EDF.  I guess in '21 they were starting to show some life.  But how did they go from basement 4-win team in '19 to powerhouse with the "most depth" in such a short time?

It took KW/MOS many more seasons than that to build our depth.  Is Pinball simply that good a magician?  It doesn't really seem fair, I guess.  HAM is probably stewing the most about this as they were the hot team that got beat down into the gutter.

2019 is when MBT took over the reigns and it grew from there.

[dd]

I think Pete hit most of the important reasons in his post. IMO they have the best defense in the league, starting with the best D-line in the league. Their LBs are great, a step above ours, especially at SAM. They have done an amazing job at recruiting talent, both national and american, and Stiggers is an example. He's an all-star making minimum salary. Robby Smith and Jordan Williams are both very good nationals on D. Compare them to us using a sub-par Kramdi and Thomas and Lawson rotating (I really like Lawson, but Jake has lost step).

They have done a very good job scouting talent at the QB position also. I don't like Kelly personally, but his performance has been on par with Zach's, and this year he's making less than 1/2 the salary which allowed them to go after free agent talent like Orimolade. I've also been impressed with Dukes, he's done incredibly well for a relative rookie QB (first CFL season after playing one year in the IFL). I wonder if Dinwiddie has a knack for finding QBs the way Buono used to with Calgary.

I think their O-line and whatever system they are using is better in pass protection that ours. I might give ours the nod for run blocking, but we do bring in Jackson,Eli and Dobson to help with that. Oullette is a very good back, probably second or third best in league. Agree their receivers are not best in league, but they seem to get it done by committee and are pretty clutch a lot of the time (see Coxie at the end of the Riders game).

Their special teams are great, not just Leake but Bede as a punter, and even more recently as a surprisingly accurate kicker filling in for injury.

I think Dinwiddie is a smart aggressive coach, probably too aggressive after seeing him tear a strip of Dukes following the failed 3rd down gamble against Riders.

Bottom line, someone in their organization had done a very good job scouting (? John Murphy behind the scenes, or their assistant GM Magri). This used to be our strong point, but we've fallen off here, possibly due to loss of Ringmaiden.

They will be challenged next year though, having to shed 300,000 in salary to make up for Kelly's new contract.

seems to me, wherever John Murphy has been--Calgary before Toronto, their talents shelves were always well stocked with many blue chips players, if you got talent, success soon follows. I think Murphy has done another great job in getting talent into his locker room and the rest speaks for itself.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

seems to me, wherever John Murphy has been--Calgary before Toronto, their talents shelves were always well stocked with many blue chips players, if you got talent, success soon follows. I think Murphy has done another great job in getting talent into his locker room and the rest speaks for itself.

He was also Jones guy in Sask. for that brief stay.

[TecnoGenius]

I m more concerned with getting out of the west than potentially meeting them in the grey cup, and I m hoping Hamilton or Montreal upset them in the playoffs , that would be awesome !!

I'm not.  We should be able to cream either BC or CGY in the WDF, unless we have horrid luck.

I'd love to see HAM or MTL in the GC, but it has as much chance of happening as us losing the WDF.

The main reason I fear TOR in the GC is that they almost always beat us in GCs, and TOR wins most GCs they are in.  When TOR is in, they generally win.  They have some lucky GC horseshoe, or they cheat, or the league rigs it so their "biggest market" can get a bone, or they are just that good, or whatever the reason is.

[TecnoGenius]

They will be challenged next year though, having to shed 300,000 in salary to make up for Kelly's new contract.

Then that only makes them more dangerous.  If this is might be their last year of "unfair advantage" then the pressure is on them to get that GC win while the iron is hot.  Kind of like us with the age of our star vets.  TOR will have to shed star players in FA, and we'll have to shed one/couple/few ageing vets.

In any event, it's critical for both teams to win that cup now.  Should make for a great GC rematch.

[J5V]

This Toronto love-fest is gonna make me barf. I hope the ghost of Leon McQuay causes them to choke in the EF or even better in the GC against us.

[J5V]

I found this gem of a playoff game featuring the Toronto Argonauts that is one of my favorite Argo games of all time. Enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buLXmYBqGBU

[bunker]

This Toronto love-fest is gonna make me barf. I hope the ghost of Leon McQuay causes them to choke in the EF or even better in the GC against us.

Love the reference to xray McQuay 
You must go back awhile

[TecnoGenius]

Watching the TOR@SSK game now, it struck me that TOR's R's are very tall, and mostly big.  Do they have a waterbug at all?  Any normal size?  Even the "new guy" Sindani they picked up a while back seems to tower above the DBs.  I haven't looked up everyone's stats, but I know Philips is big, Coxie looks big, Nield seems tall, Brissett too.  I guess Ungerer and Daniels might be more "normal" size.

So maybe there is method to TOR's R madness, where they didn't go out and pay$$ for any big$$ names.  When your whole corps can get the high ball and big-body out the defenders, maybe that's all it takes.  The Sindani jump catch to allow the winning TD on 3rd & very long is a case in point.

[J5V]

Love the reference to xray McQuay 
You must go back awhile

Ha ha ... well yeah, I'm in my sixties and have been a Bomber fan a very long time.

[dd]

This Toronto love-fest is gonna make me barf. I hope the ghost of Leon McQuay causes them to choke in the EF or even better in the GC against us.

It?s coming, they?re all fat headed from having the media gush about them. They played a weak schedule feeding on the weak teams of the east to bulk up their record. I hope they go to a balanced schedule where every team plays a home and away game against every team in the league, that way you get a fair representation from all teams. It?s silly they haven?t done this

[Cool Spot]

The main reason I fear TOR in the GC is that they almost always beat us in GCs, and TOR wins most GCs they are in.  When TOR is in, they generally win. 

Since I started watching football in 1988, they are 7-0 in Grey Cups, defeating every single western team:

* 1991 (against Calgary)
* 1996 (against Edmonton)
* 1997 (against Sask)
* 2004 (as an underdog against BC)
* 2012 (as an underdog against Calgary)
* 2017 (as an underdog against Calgary)
* 2022 (as an underdog against Winnipeg)

I agree that whenever they get there, they seem to have this uncanny ability to win.

[ModAdmin]

He was also Jones guy in Sask. for that brief stay.

..and he had a stint as player-personnel director with the Bombers in 2008/2009.

[TecnoGenius]

Since I started watching football in 1988, they are 7-0 in Grey Cups, defeating every single western team:

* 1991 (against Calgary)
* 1996 (against Edmonton)
* 1997 (against Sask)
* 2004 (as an underdog against BC)
* 2012 (as an underdog against Calgary)
* 2017 (as an underdog against Calgary)
* 2022 (as an underdog against Winnipeg)

I agree that whenever they get there, they seem to have this uncanny ability to win.

Right.  So we'll have to break that streak to beat them.  One thing in our favor is none of the above were "rematches" of the previous GC.  We've worked all year to do one thing: defeat TOR in GC.  KW worked on the puzzle pieces that he thinks let us down (WR: Kenny, PK: Castillo).  I'm sure MOS/Hall/Buck have been scheming all year on how to beat Dinwiddie and their schemes.

TOR always wins, but always can't be forever.  Maybe the biggest thing in our favor is I think Zach is incredibly angry at himself for that loss, as we pretty much should have won it, save maybe for the Henoc INT and the last Zach short curl batdown.  Zach will be so focused and practised for this game it won't even be funny.  I think we may see the best Zach ever.

Based on all the reading I do on other forums, TOR is an incredibly unpopular team.  Besides the few that bother to go down the 401 from Hogtown, I see the crowd in HAM being firmly on the WPG side.  Much of the league has a hate-on for WPG, but I think the hate-on for TOR trumps it.  At least people think WPG "worked" to get where it is, taking Mafia, what, 10 years(!), to get here -- whereas TOR has really only been good for 2.  And everyone wants to steal our GM/HC/Coords, and not TOR's...