Global status in 2024 and other conversations

[Jesse]

Not so sure on that last part. The Canadian ratio is trying to correct the supply-demand curve of the sheer number of American players that can come in and take over entirely, while the global initiative is trying to grow CFL interest elsewhere.

If the global program's intent is to "give global players a shot", then we have a problem lol. You could argue that we are in fact doing that in order to get the eyeballs, but that should be a tool in the toolbox for growing the game internationally. So far all we've seen is this sort of token roster spot + draft for this and not a well-thought out strategy with measurables, etc. I think that's what Jesse was getting at.

I think it's two fold. The first part is absolutely the growing the game in order to increase the number of potential TV deals and therefore money. That's why this thing got legs in the first place - a chance for more revenue.

The second part is the chance to use European leagues as a sort of developmental league. Send Canadians and new Americans to continue getting playing snaps before potentially moving back to Canada. When this whole thing first started, we sent guys over to a handful of leagues, but it went horribly and also covid.

[Jesse]

Both are mostly marketing tools. The Canadian ratio is trying to make sure Canadians can play in the league and get developed because some fans really like that connection. The league is really trying to get more fans globally and is taking the exact same approach with the global ratio. If the league was concerned only with on field product quality they would simply let the best players play.

I don't know if this take is cynical or misinformed or just ignorant.

This is the Canadian Football League. American players are the "new" addition. Saying the Canadian ratio is a marketing ploy is nonsensical.

[theaardvark]

Ratio make the league unique.  It builds interest in Canadian players, and makes teams pursue continuity with them because they are rare.  And they become fan favourites and identifiable.

No ratio, we end up with USFL/XFL rosters with no real player/team identity, and fan engagement drops.

[TecnoGenius]

Ratio make the league unique.  It builds interest in Canadian players, and makes teams pursue continuity with them because they are rare.  And they become fan favourites and identifiable.

No ratio, we end up with USFL/XFL rosters with no real player/team identity, and fan engagement drops.

100% truth.  Ratio is the CFL.  Look at the disaster of the X years and teams that didn't have to have a ratio.

Who gets the biggest applause when they announce the O at IGF??  There's your answer.

[Blueforlife]

The strength of this league is our Canadian content.  Always has, always will be.  Ensures our youth have a league to play in and ensure many stay at home and build our great communities stronger. 

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I don't know if this take is cynical or misinformed or just ignorant.

This is the Canadian Football League. American players are the "new" addition. Saying the Canadian ratio is a marketing ploy is nonsensical.

I think it is none of the above. Most leagues don't have ratios. The CFL does because fans like you think it's important. There's nothing wrong with that I don't think. Why else would they have a ratio? There is no other reason other than fans want and expect it. That's called marketing to your target audience in every other business context. It works in Canada. Just look at so many of the reactions on here. It works so well they think it could work globally. None of this should be surprising or controversial.

[TecnoGenius]

I think it is none of the above. Most leagues don't have ratios. The CFL does because fans like you think it's important. There's nothing wrong with that I don't think.

Can you imagine the CFL without the ratio?  90% of the NATs would be unemployed on day 1.  The other 10% would see 25-50% drop in pay.  After 5-10 years where no one drafts/devs any Canada U sports people and U sports players stop caring or aspiring, the league would be 99% IMPs.  You want proof?  How many NATs did the X years USA teams employ, eh?

And all of those IMPs are NFL wannabee rejects and look to us solely as a feeder league.  None would ever settle in like so many great long-term IMPs have.

We would 100% look just like the XFL, and to me that look is garbage.  And if you get rid of the player ratio, the 99% used-to-4-down players would then demand we be 4 down.  At that stage we might as well have the richest cities just get NFL teams and the smaller cities not have any pro football at all.  TOR and BC (and maybe MTL) win, the great prairie teams/cities (and HAM, one of the best fanbases) all lose.

[Blue In BC]

Can you imagine the CFL without the ratio?  90% of the NATs would be unemployed on day 1.  The other 10% would see 25-50% drop in pay.  After 5-10 years where no one drafts/devs any Canada U sports people and U sports players stop caring or aspiring, the league would be 99% IMPs.  You want proof?  How many NATs did the X years USA teams employ, eh?

And all of those IMPs are NFL wannabee rejects and look to us solely as a feeder league.  None would ever settle in like so many great long-term IMPs have.

We would 100% look just like the XFL, and to me that look is garbage.  And if you get rid of the player ratio, the 99% used-to-4-down players would then demand we be 4 down.  At that stage we might as well have the richest cities just get NFL teams and the smaller cities not have any pro football at all.  TOR and BC (and maybe MTL) win, the great prairie teams/cities (and HAM, one of the best fanbases) all lose.

Exaggeration to say the least at every level. The NFL is not going to put teams in larger CFL cities. For one, nobody could afford the franchise fee and stadiums are generally too small or too old.

The ratio has no bearing on the imports wanting to use it as a stepping stone back to the NFL.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Can you imagine the CFL without the ratio?  90% of the NATs would be unemployed on day 1.  The other 10% would see 25-50% drop in pay.  After 5-10 years where no one drafts/devs any Canada U sports people and U sports players stop caring or aspiring, the league would be 99% IMPs.  You want proof?  How many NATs did the X years USA teams employ, eh?

And all of those IMPs are NFL wannabee rejects and look to us solely as a feeder league.  None would ever settle in like so many great long-term IMPs have.

We would 100% look just like the XFL, and to me that look is garbage.  And if you get rid of the player ratio, the 99% used-to-4-down players would then demand we be 4 down.  At that stage we might as well have the richest cities just get NFL teams and the smaller cities not have any pro football at all.  TOR and BC (and maybe MTL) win, the great prairie teams/cities (and HAM, one of the best fanbases) all lose.

I think it would be just as popular, but that's just me. If 90% of nationals were unemployed day one, that just speaks to their level of play. I pay several thousand dollars a year for seasons tickets. I expect a premium product. To me, and this is entirely my opinion, the CFL is the CFL because of the rules on the field and the history of the teams in each market. Most of may favourite players have been Americans. I have pictures of Milt Stegall, Charles Roberts, Matt Dunnigan and Khari Jones in my basement. To each his own. But the CFL will always have history and that sets it apart from any start up league. There are passionate fans here who care about the teams. I want to watch the best Blue Bombers team against the best Roughriders team every Banjo Bowl. It would have absolutely no negative affect for me personally, if we had an all american offense line and an American in for Kramdi and more Americans playing specials. To each his own, I suppose. I will always argue if the CFL really wants to take the next step, it's going to have to forgo it's mandated Canadian rules. The MLS has a great system that encourages development of north american players while ensuring the best players play. I would prefer a system like that if we need one.

[Blue In BC]

I think it would be just as popular, but that's just me. If 90% of nationals were unemployed day one, that just speaks to their level of play. I pay several thousand dollars a year for seasons tickets. I expect a premium product. To me, and this is entirely my opinion, the CFL is the CFL because of the rules on the field and the history of the teams in each market. Most of may favourite players have been Americans. I have pictures of Milt Stegall, Charles Roberts, Matt Dunnigan and Khari Jones in my basement. To each his own. But the CFL will always have history and that sets it apart from any start up league. There are passionate fans here who care about the teams. I want to watch the best Blue Bombers team against the best Roughriders team every Banjo Bowl. It would have absolutely no negative affect for me personally, if we had an all american offense line and an American in for Kramdi and more Americans playing specials. To each his own, I suppose. I will always argue if the CFL really wants to take the next step, it's going to have to forgo it's mandated Canadian rules. The MLS has a great system that encourages development of north american players while ensuring the best players play. I would prefer a system like that if we need one.

+1.

[TecnoGenius]

I have pictures of Milt Stegall, Charles Roberts, Matt Dunnigan and Khari Jones in my basement. To each his own. But the CFL will always have history and that sets it apart from any start up league. There are passionate fans here who care about the teams. I want to watch the best Blue Bombers team against the best Roughriders team every Banjo Bowl. It would have absolutely no negative affect for me personally, if we had an all american offense line and an American in for Kramdi and more Americans playing specials.

With no ratio there almost certainly would be no A.Harris, no Brady, no Cornish, no Demski, none of the great NAT OL...  None of those guys would have been given a chance to play, and time to get better.  Do we want a CFL history where guys like that never existed?

Ya, there will still be the few elite players that are Canadian, but like happens now they will all be snapped up by the NFL, with only a few rejects coming back.  And when they come back they'd be no more "special" than the NFL-reject IMPs.

Again, look at who are clearly the fan favorites @IGF when they announce the O or (even) D.  Applause often follows pay-grade when it comes to IMPs, but note the massive extra enthusiasm for the NATs, especially our star NATs.

It's all a moot point though, because I'd bet the CFL would go to 4-down before they would abandon the ratio...

[Sir Blue and Gold]

With no ratio there almost certainly would be no A.Harris, no Brady, no Cornish, no Demski, none of the great NAT OL...  None of those guys would have been given a chance to play, and time to get better.  Do we want a CFL history where guys like that never existed?

Ya, there will still be the few elite players that are Canadian, but like happens now they will all be snapped up by the NFL, with only a few rejects coming back.  And when they come back they'd be no more "special" than the NFL-reject IMPs.

Again, look at who are clearly the fan favorites @IGF when they announce the O or (even) D.  Applause often follows pay-grade when it comes to IMPs, but note the massive extra enthusiasm for the NATs, especially our star NATs.

It's all a moot point though, because I'd bet the CFL would go to 4-down before they would abandon the ratio...

True. You'd lose some of the Canadian heroes - particularly the ones that take a while to get going. The league would also have more opportunity for American players to develop who generally start at a higher competency level than many Canadians, particularly the CIS guys. You might not have Demski, but you are likely to develop more Stegalls, Shoens, and Bryants. The CFL wouldn't be devoid of Canadians though. There are Canadians in the NFL every year and there would be Canadians in the CFL. The difference of course is they would be there entirely on merit alone.

[Blue In BC]

With no ratio there almost certainly would be no A.Harris, no Brady, no Cornish, no Demski, none of the great NAT OL...  None of those guys would have been given a chance to play, and time to get better.  Do we want a CFL history where guys like that never existed?

Ya, there will still be the few elite players that are Canadian, but like happens now they will all be snapped up by the NFL, with only a few rejects coming back.  And when they come back they'd be no more "special" than the NFL-reject IMPs.

Again, look at who are clearly the fan favorites @IGF when they announce the O or (even) D.  Applause often follows pay-grade when it comes to IMPs, but note the massive extra enthusiasm for the NATs, especially our star NATs.

It's all a moot point though, because I'd bet the CFL would go to 4-down before they would abandon the ratio...

I wouldn't hang my hat on great Canadian OL although there have been many great ones. The thing is nobody cares about an OL's nationality. In the past it wasn't unusual for an all import OL or certainly more than 2. Fans only concern about an OL is playing well. In that sense they are invisible and not the ones fans go to see. They go to see the star receivers etc etc.

Sure there have been some great Canadian RB's, receivers etc. Many fans can name off 20 or more imports in any category going back 50 years. It hasn't been unusual for an import to have instant success.

Hockey, basketball and soccer don't have ratios. Why does the CFL need one?

Suggesting the CFL would go to a 4 down version for any reason is just silly, although you said they'd do that before they would abandon the ratio. The CFL game ( rules ) is what makes the CFL. It's not the ratio per se.

Keep in mind the ratio has constantly changed. The size of the roster has changed. We have less Canadian starters in the past. DI's didn't exist, globals didn't exist and Nationalized Americans didn't exist.  The CFL is still here.

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing. It's curious that some are so intent about the ratio while they also argue in support of global players for example.

Everybody would support larger rosters but that's an economic issue. How a roster would be made up from a ratio point of view is a broader discussion.

[TecnoGenius]

Hockey, basketball and soccer don't have ratios. Why does the CFL need one?

That's easy.  Hockey is like the football situation in reverse: Canada has the sheer numbers of kids/teens playing and being developed, it's the national sport.  So the thing that makes the USA win vis a vis football rosters makes Canada win hockey.

Basketball has one Canadian team, so it's not comparable, and there is basically no Canadian pro development scheme.  Soccer is basically a nothingburger in Canada: it's not big enough to have real attendance and money involved thus no big attraction for Americans to come up here.

Pro basketball and hockey are USA-majority in terms of team count.  For a ratio to make sense, the league must be Canada only.  Thus the CFL is unique in its position amongst sports in Canada.  Thus the unique ratio rules.

[Jesse]

True. You'd lose some of the Canadian heroes - particularly the ones that take a while to get going. The league would also have more opportunity for American players to develop who generally start at a higher competency level than many Canadians, particularly the CIS guys. You might not have Demski, but you are likely to develop more Stegalls, Shoens, and Bryants. The CFL wouldn't be devoid of Canadians though. There are Canadians in the NFL every year and there would be Canadians in the CFL. The difference of course is they would be there entirely on merit alone.

And there's the rub.

We don't have the popultation of the US. Never will. We don't have the religious like devotion to football that certain parts of the US does. Never will.

We do have the Harris's, Demski's, and Oliveira's who want to play football but weren't given a ball in their cradle. In order to develop Canadian talent there needs to be a place for them to grow and develop later in life than in the states; in some cases, merely because they started later in life.

Canadians do need that extra help. They need those dedicated spots. The CFL then gives back to grassroots programs to renew the cycle. It's not just marketing for fans, it's a renewable cycle of Canadian football that can easily cease to exist if you upset the habitat.

And, again. It is the Canadian Football League. The Argos are currently celebrating their 150th anniversary. The Bombers were one of the first teams to invite and American player in 1935, riding the legs of Fritzie Hansen in 1935. About 85 years ago. Americans are invited to play here. But it's our league.