Official Game Day Thread - Winnipeg at Hamilton, September 16, 2023

[Pete]

may be true but saw a number of times the cb turned the wrong way, tripped, or just got beat . Overall we do play that scheme but in this game our corners werent good

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

There was no need to be unmotivated for this game. A win would have kept them 4 points ahead of BC with BC having a game in hand. That would have given the Bombers some needed flexibility. Now, in all likelihood, they will need to win the game in BC to finish first. There is just unexplained inconsistency with the weapons and experience they have. 

Well if they can't win that game in BC, maybe they don't deserve first place and will have to deal with the consequences in the playoffs.

[Blue72]

Our ST have been the problem for a couple years and especially last year when MOS had to step in. But he never really fixed the problem as we still have the same ST coach here players have not been upgraded. People say we are missing Miller, Gauthier and Briggs but look at their age, they are slowing down and sitting on the IR most of the season also including Hansen. Our GM and scouts bringing in players the off season failed badly.

This team is ageing and have more then 20 guys at 30 years old next year and slowing down or getting injuries more often. You can't play a  game or help your team from a hot tub.

It should be a busy off season of signings new guys and from other teams also.

As much as MOS has this thing for Jackson we need more help on the DL in the IMP spot

[Horseman]

I am afraid to admit this but, the Bombers are not going to the GC this year. Our ST have cost us all season long and the coaches have not been able to fix the issues. What I see happening is our cover teams cannot get off their blocks to hustle down field, they are being held up (blocked) as they run down field. They need to make moves on the blockers to get by them and be in a position to make the tackle on the ball carrier right after he catches it (just like other teams do to us). When I played, your ST players had the mentality that they would not be blocked and got by their blocker, our guys seem content to run down the field right beside the blocker and they get pushed aside as the ball carrier arrives, can't have this. I know they have to maintain their lanes but as you are running down field you can deviate somewhat to avoid your blocker and then get back into your lane. We are missing a guy like Miller, who has this mentality and will to not be blocked and get down field and make the tackle. So, all to say that we will not win the west as our ST are not strong enough, how many times have we held the other teams return team inside of their own 40 yard line, not very often, the other teams seem to be starting at mid field far to often.

[buckzumhoff]

We don't have receivers who curl back too often or an extra running back to pick up a screen pass when other teams rush the qb
  Collaros runs out of the pocket no one there so teams know and they run to cover to try a pick because they know collaros will force it and they know no one's open. Put in an extra running back when it's 2nd and long

[buckzumhoff]

I think coaches are playing with the lineup a bit. Keeping healthy players out not playing certain players like Mc Rae and Agidosi. And even the offensive line

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

We don't have receivers who curl back too often or an extra running back to pick up a screen pass when other teams rush the qb
  Collaros runs out of the pocket no one there so teams know and they run to cover to try a pick because they know collaros will force it and they know no one's open. Put in an extra running back when it's 2nd and long

Other teams have watched Zach scrambling to his right for 3 seasons now, they know what to expect and look for the receivers on that side of the field coming back to the ball.  Expect more interceptions to come off that play.

[TecnoGenius]

The Bombers need some corners who can play man to man and not embarrass themselves.  They need someone other than Kramdi.

Best thing I can say about the way our corners played in that game is that we didn't have to worry about interference calls. cause they were nowhere near the receivers on a lot of those catches.

Opponent receivers don't often get behind our DB's. Soft coverage means they're always playing off the receivers and fewer passes are contested. OTOH, that's the opposite of what we saw the Ti Cats try and do. They contested receptions more but also got beat for longer passes often.

In that sense I can't blame our CB's. It's Hall's scheme and it works IF you get pressure on the QB.

I've said it a million times, the corners are 15Y off the wide outs because that is what Hall tells them to do.  It's not that Rose/Houston suck, it's that they are following the plan.  Both Rose/Houston have proven for a few seasons they are great at playing man.

What is irritating is that Hall doesn't change the scheme when it's clearly not working (like LDC and @HAM).  Again, I think this is partially due to underestimating the noob QBs' ability to continually make those passes.  Hall is gambling on the noobiness and it's not paying off this season.

I have a feeling we're saving our tight man coverage and tighter zone for either when we face the "real" games (BC/TOR) or for the post-season.  We may see a whole "new" defence then, and it should hopefully catch the opponent completely off-guard as their playbooks right now are nothing but wide-out 1, wide-out 2, wide-out 3...

We're basically going to need to win every remaining game, with maybe 1 loss allowed to a nobody team in the last 2 weeks.

[TecnoGenius]

may be true but saw a number of times the cb turned the wrong way, tripped, or just got beat . Overall we do play that scheme but in this game our corners werent good

How many bombs did Powell get against our corners?  I counted... none?  The only bombs were probably going to be uncatchable and were DPIs, and not on Rose/Houston.

Hall focuses on not giving up the explosion in trade for giving up unlimited 10 yard wide outs.  We need a DL or LB player to step up and do something.  Nobody did.

So Hall's plan is mostly working to perfection, as planned, except for the they-won't-make-that-wideout-12-times-in-a-row part.  Decent teams are making the dink & dunk work against us, and Hall has no answer.  MOS must be hella miffed right about now.  I bet he was chirping on that headset to Hall a whackload during the game.

[TecnoGenius]

I?m not sure what the issue is but it?s just not good enough. And Castillo missing a number of extra points this year has me annoyed. If he hits that extra pt and the 48 yard field goal, it?s a tie game 27-27. Very disappointing.

I'm also annoyed with Castillo / Sheehan over Liegghio. An import and a global over 1 Canadian cost us other ways on defence for DI's etc. Yes Castillo is generally better in the FG risk department but we're a top scoring team and FG's are less of a factor.

Someone needs to update the stats for Castillo vs Leggs.  I think they are pretty much at parity now.  As BinBC says, that's not good enough for the harm to our team from losing a DI on D.  So many look at the raw result and ignore the opportunity cost.

The big big big acid test will be in the post-season: will Castillo make 95% and win us games instead of lose us games?  That's the entire reason we went with him.  If he pulls a Leggs, then it'll be kicker shopping time in FA.

[TecnoGenius]

There was no need to be unmotivated for this game. A win would have kept them 4 points ahead of BC with BC having a game in hand. That would have given the Bombers some needed flexibility. Now, in all likelihood, they will need to win the game in BC to finish first. There is just unexplained inconsistency with the weapons and experience they have. 

We seem to be having trouble with away games against gimmee opponents.  Half the blame (or more) is on MOS/Hall/Buck/Boudreau because they clearly do not spend any time scheming against the specific opponent when it's a weak team.  Just "business as usual" will get the job done: except when it doesn't.

Everyone who knows anything (or plays fantasy) knew that HAM was basically starting pylons as DBs on the strong side, and their weak side is basically hot garbage too.  Yet there we are running Brady up the gut on 1st down ~9 times for 4 yard gains into the league-best DL, like it's business as usual.  We did that until we got down so much HAM could ignore the run and drop all LBers back into coverage.  Disgraceful.  I could have called a better game than that.

It should have been mid and deep passes all night, with an outlet or 2 in the flat for when the LBers vacate.  Our OL was doing very well against the pass rush until it was 2+ scores.  We had time to execute whatever pass we wanted on 1st down.

I think the team is spending all practice sessions sitting around singing kumbaya or something rather than coming up with new schemes and plays like the other teams clearly are.  Did you see the master blocking scheme HAM had on that missed PAT?  That was drawn up and practiced let me tell you, that was not some lucky organic thing.  Where is our ST scheming like that??  Our guys looked like 12 chickens running around without heads on that PAT.

Did anyone spot one single new WPG set or scheme or play on any phase in this game?  I sure didn't.  It was all the same old same old that any decent team doing film study and staying up late making notes can beat with good execution.

[3rdand1.5]

Halls defence is lights out when it gets pressure from the d-line...it always has and always will...when we have pressure our schemes for LB's and DB's look great and only give up the "underneath" if the QB hits it.

The opposite is the reality if we don't get the pressure/contain Hall requires. we see this every time Jeffcoat goes out. we have seen it for years, when we have the D-line playing well the entire defensive unit looks unworldly.  but when they don't our Db's look like...well like they did last week.

Halls scheme is built out from the d-line...not unlike many teams...and frankly when all healthy we are very good but  Jeffcoat is hurt again....we seem lucky to get 50% out of him, Willie looks exhausted as he is really the only consistent high level player and his stats back this.

for weeks it has been evident that our special teams have been poor, and we lack the talent/experience/depth along the d-line. These concerns didn't just sprout out today they have been around for a while and injuries really compounded them.

The question is the fans see it, the broadcasters see it, the media sees it, the coaches have to see it....but why are wre we seemingly not addressing it?

I guess we are trying..Castillo over Leggs...Parker in over Mc Crea, Cole back in, Haba inserted, but other than Haba-and arguably Castillo none of them have really improved us...so is it a scouting fail, a coaching decision fail......something is failing.....figuring that out will bre teh difference between a "what could have been" and anothe trip to the GC.

[Waffler]

Did anyone spot one single new WPG set or scheme or play on any phase in this game?  I sure didn't.  It was all the same old same old that any decent team doing film study and staying up late making notes can beat with good execution.

Agree with this. The time we brought in extra protection to beat BC was the only thing that stands out. Considering the poor production of Wolitasrsky, they might as well have done that again. The big three are gonna get open given time.

McRae has all the tools to be a good kick returner. My question is if we have someone here that can coach him to be better. He's killing himself with hesitation.

[TecnoGenius]

Halls defence is lights out when it gets pressure from the d-line...it always has and always will...when we have pressure our schemes for LB's and DB's look great and only give up the "underneath" if the QB hits it.

But wouldn't that plan also fail even if our DL is in peak form as long as the QB is getting the ball out in under 2s?  The DEs can't get to the QB that fast.  Even if we have the best DEs/DTs in the world what does that buy us if the opponent takes the wide-out every down 20 snaps in a row?

Look at the LDC: Jeffcoat was in and it didn't amount to a hill of beans.  I doubt Jeffcoat would have helped us much this game either.  Maybe he would have stopped 1 of Powell's runs, but that's about it.

We need answers for teams taking our free quick passes all night.  The waiting-for-them-to-fail thing doesn't always work.  DL doesn't have much to do with that type of quick game.

[Waffler]

We need answers for teams taking our free quick passes all night.  The waiting-for-them-to-fail thing doesn't always work.  DL doesn't have much to do with that type of quick game.

Isn't our normal answer moving around Jefferson and sometimes fake his rush and drop into coverage? I don't recall any of that against Hamilton. We played pretty vanilla considering the youth they have at QB. Maybe because we didn't get the picks we were hoping for against Dolegala but instead gave up big plays?