We need a Pass rush !!

[pjrocksmb]

Briggs purpose is to chase an opponent but not arrive in time. He's having a horrible season. Every time he's on the field for defence I expect a big play by the other team.

Overstated on the negative.  Good rotational guy.  You have had a bias against Briggs for a bit.  Yes he chases but he is not having a horrible season imo.  He is a reasonable backup and valuable member of this team.

We're starting 10 LBs. This is getting ridiculous. Every other team has more bodies along the DL.

You want to talk about opportunity cost? Because we're apparently investing much more into our ST but not seing any results from it. Our ST continues to be a liability.

10 LBs and all we do is win.  Works for me

According to Blue in BC on the Bombers forum. Not according to a two-time winning Grey Cup head coach who is second all-time in Bombers head coach wins and was a HoF player.

Agree.  Trust the system.  Trust the coaches.  Trust the pros.  We are a great team with a good record.  It's not broke so we don't need to fix it.

[Blue In BC]

Overstated on the negative.  Good rotational guy.  You have had a bias against Briggs for a bit.  Yes he chases but he is not having a horrible season imo.  He is a reasonable backup and valuable member of this team.
10 LBs and all we do is win.  Works for me
Agree.  Trust the system.  Trust the coaches.  Trust the pros.  We are a great team with a good record.  It's not broke so we don't need to fix it.

You're the guy that always overstates the positive. You don't see fault in any player even when most everyone does. Briggs on the field is a liability. In 2022 he had some starts at WIL before Gauthier replaced him in that role.

Gauthier will see more reps on ST's and on defence going forward.

Did you see Briggs chasing Crum late in the Redblack game? Did you not realize the coaching decisions in play calling and roster management that cost us that game?

Blah, blah, blah. You and your trust the system. Not every player deserves patience forever.

[theaardvark]

Watching Lemon play, I wonder why we didn't sign him...

Was it $$$? 

Was it the logjam at DE with the Jeff's?

Was it concern about him fitting in?

Was it confidence in Haba continuing to develop?

In hindsight, might have been a great signing...

[Blue In BC]

Hey PJ, here is a quote from the other site. Specifically about O'Shea being too loyal at times.

One example doesnt make it so.....and fact of matter...Guys are doing that in everygame as well....there are 3 plays that game where I recall he was beat as well...it happens to all players....with all that said we have better more rounded options....and he's in there because that option got hurt in TC and the way Osh coaches at times shows too much loyalty in some situations where it's not warranted, nor does it make team better...which should be the end goal...Nit picking can go on back and forth forever, and is pointless....our less than the best roster is gonna be an issue all yr until it really bites us in the ***, or next yr when some those guys who were slighted for no reason other than a coaches personal like/love of something makes them walk and look elsewhere for playing time.......I get it...U love Holm and he excites you.....he doesnt for me....average and adequate don't do it for me

[Blue In BC]

Watching Lemon play, I wonder why we didn't sign him...

Was it $$$? 

Was it the logjam at DE with the Jeff's?

Was it concern about him fitting in?

Was it confidence in Haba continuing to develop?

In hindsight, might have been a great signing...

I think it was an SMS issue, mostly.  Lemon isn't the primary starter in Montreal but he is in the rotation a lot. 10 DT's, 4 sacks and 1 int in 4 games. Hard to believe he wouldn't have been an asset.

IIRC several teams were interested in Lemon.

[bunker]

Hey PJ, here is a quote from the other site. Specifically about O'Shea being too loyal at times.

One example doesnt make it so.....and fact of matter...Guys are doing that in everygame as well....there are 3 plays that game where I recall he was beat as well...it happens to all players....with all that said we have better more rounded options....and he's in there because that option got hurt in TC and the way Osh coaches at times shows too much loyalty in some situations where it's not warranted, nor does it make team better...which should be the end goal...Nit picking can go on back and forth forever, and is pointless....our less than the best roster is gonna be an issue all yr until it really bites us in the ***, or next yr when some those guys who were slighted for no reason other than a coaches personal like/love of something makes them walk and look elsewhere for playing time.......I get it...U love Holm and he excites you.....he doesnt for me....average and adequate don't do it for me

This poster is very knowledgeable but has seemed to have an irrational bias again Holm from day 1, and won't change his mind, is spite of Holm's more than decent play.

But I think his general point about poor roster management is correct. I don't know if that's an O'Shea loyalty issue (probably part of it) or O'Shea sees things from where he is that we don't see from behind our keyboard. But he's not infallible (he's backed a number of mediocre players in the past like Sam Hurl, and proven to be wrong about them), and as posters all we can do is put forward our opinion based on what we see and know. If we just accept the appeal to authority (he's a successful professional coach so he must know what he is doing), there is really then nothing left for us, as posters, to say. Just because someone has success doesn't mean they are infallible. Chris Jones won a Grey Cup as a head coach, and Craig Dickenson took the Riders to a first place record at 13-5 in 2019. Neither are above being questioned about their decisions.

[pjrocksmb]

You're the guy that always overstates the positive. You don't see fault in any player even when most everyone does. Briggs on the field is a liability. In 2022 he had some starts at WIL before Gauthier replaced him in that role.

Gauthier will see more reps on ST's and on defence going forward.

Did you see Briggs chasing Crum late in the Redblack game? Did you not realize the coaching decisions in play calling and roster management that cost us that game?

Blah, blah, blah. You and your trust the system. Not every player deserves patience forever.

Nah you just got an anti Briggs bias.  Agreed he chases previously.  Briggs is an asset to the club, not a liability.  Gauthier's return will help brings as they complement each other well.  They will rotate with Briggs on the passing downs.  Worked for years.  No need to take a personal attack.  Someone is a wee bit grumpy and defensive.  I am always in for a good debate about pros and cons on players.  Been supporting management, Hall, MOS and our core on D for a very long time.  Continuity and staying the course has paid off.  I see faults in players and debate them all the time.  You are over simplifying my contributions to this forum.  I love a debate and I'm not afraid to say what I think.  Yes I'll go against the grain and I won't follow the herd.  I am allowed to defend Briggs role and simply believe you are overstated the negative side of his value to the club.  The term liability is what I disagreed with.  If he was he would be on the PR or cut.
 
I specifically like Briggs within the role we have used him for.  Yes Crum can burn him but he also has burnt his fair share.  Briggs and Gauthier are career Bombers, they are not going anywhere and are key rotational cogs in the wheel.  No patience required.  They have achieved what we needed them to.  Come in on a rotational basis, start when we are hurt and they play on teams.  None issue handled internally.

If we are able to draft or develop guys that can replace Briggs that great but for now let's be thankful for what we have.  He has management and the coaches confidence and he also has mine.

Please provide an example where I was overly positive and wrong? I am quick to eat crow.  I had pumped Browns tires and was proven right in his 1st match but took a little wings on his 2nd game lol.

Hey PJ, here is a quote from the other site. Specifically about O'Shea being too loyal at times.

One example doesnt make it so.....and fact of matter...Guys are doing that in everygame as well....there are 3 plays that game where I recall he was beat as well...it happens to all players....with all that said we have better more rounded options....and he's in there because that option got hurt in TC and the way Osh coaches at times shows too much loyalty in some situations where it's not warranted, nor does it make team better...which should be the end goal...Nit picking can go on back and forth forever, and is pointless....our less than the best roster is gonna be an issue all yr until it really bites us in the ***, or next yr when some those guys who were slighted for no reason other than a coaches personal like/love of something makes them walk and look elsewhere for playing time.......I get it...U love Holm and he excites you.....he doesnt for me....average and adequate don't do it for me

Loyalty is working.  The club is great, with one of the best runs ever.  Until it breaks, I'm all in.  My 2nd favorite coach was Ritchie who was also very loyal to his vets.  Run that until that ship sinks.  The culture on the Bomber is at its peak.  Trust the club.  They know more than we do.

This poster is very knowledgeable but has seemed to have an irrational bias again Holm from day 1, and won't change his mind, is spite of Holm's more than decent play.

But I think his general point about poor roster management is correct. I don't know if that's an O'Shea loyalty issue (probably part of it) or O'Shea sees things from where he is that we don't see from behind our keyboard. But he's not infallible (he's backed a number of mediocre players in the past like Sam Hurl, and proven to be wrong about them), and as posters all we can do is put forward our opinion based on what we see and know. If we just accept the appeal to authority (he's a successful professional coach so he must know what he is doing), there is really then nothing left for us, as posters, to say. Just because someone has success doesn't mean they are infallible. Chris Jones won a Grey Cup as a head coach, and Craig Dickenson took the Riders to a first place record at 13-5 in 2019. Neither are above being questioned about their decisions.

Holm is a great example of trusting MOS.  He was high on him last year.  Amazing development.  Shows how lucky we are to have the coaches we do as they can see talent.

I am concerned about our ST play on coverage.  I think we will figure it out but need to by mid September or we will start to pay for it.

[bunker]

Nah you just got an anti Briggs bias.  Agreed he chases.  Briggs is an asset to the club, not a liability.  Gauthier's return will help brings as they complement each other well.  They will rotate with Briggs on the passing downs.  Worked for years.  No need to take a personal attack.  Someone is a wee bit grumpy and defensive.  I am always in for a good debate about pros and cons on players.  I specifically like Briggs within the role we have used him.  Yes Crum can burn him but he also has burnt his fair share.  Briggs and Gauthier are career Bombers, they are jot going anywhere and are key rotational cogs in the whellel.  No patience required.  They have achieved what we needed them to.  Come in on a rotational basis, start when we are hurt and they play on teams.  None issue handled internally.

I don't think Briggs has been great on teams this year. I think he's a liability whenever he is in on rotation. He probably has been around long enough to know his assignments well, and may be a good locker room guy, but he was mediocre at his prime and at 33 is aging out. I appreciate what he's given us over his tenure, but it's a what have you done for me lately game. May be time for him to get his gold watch.

[pjrocksmb]

I don't think Briggs has been great on teams this year. I think he's a liability whenever he is in on rotation. He probably has been around long enough to know his assignments well, and may be a good locker room guy, but he was mediocre at his prime and at 33 is aging out. I appreciate what he's given us over his tenure, but it's a what have you done for me lately game. May be time for him to get his gold watch.

He is what he is.  A reasonable backup.  When the club is healthy he get just enough reps to contribute.  I can't comment on his ST play. 

He will have to fight hard next year, didn't realize his age.

He will be on the roster the rest of the season and we will benefit from his veteran presence if the injury bug comes back.  He is consistent and not injury prone.  Good average depth guy.

I appreciate your comments and thanks for contributing to the debate.

Watching Lemon play, I wonder why we didn't sign him...

Was it $$$? 

Was it the logjam at DE with the Jeff's?

Was it concern about him fitting in?

Was it confidence in Haba continuing to develop?

In hindsight, might have been a great signing...

I am happy we passed.  Not a huge fan of a rental.  Happy with Haba.

That said Lemon looks sweet

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Cadwallader has had a fairly quiet season, I expected this would be the year he'd make a bigger impact on ST and get more reps. at LB.

[pjrocksmb]

Cadwallader has had a fairly quiet season, I expected this would be the year he'd make a bigger impact on ST and get more reps. at LB.

Anyone have any notes on what they have seen when he did get reps? I liked what I seen last year.

[Blue In BC]

He is what he is.  A reasonable backup.  When the club is healthy he get just enough reps to contribute.  I can't comment on his ST play. 

He will have to fight hard next year, didn't realize his age.

He will be on the roster the rest of the season and we will benefit from his veteran presence if the injury bug comes back.  He is consistent and not injury prone.  Good average depth guy.

I appreciate your comments and thanks for contributing to the debate.
I am happy we passed.  Not a huge fan of a rental.  Happy with Haba.

That said Lemon looks sweet

You have to ask yourself whether any given player would be on the roster if not protected by the ratio. Even Canadian players reach the end of the line eventually.

Another question you might consider is which Canadian depth player would you release if you had to from the AR? Who is at the bottom of the depth chart and has the least potential to grow into a player that can contribute more in the future? Age and SMS are always part of the analysis.

Is that a bias against Briggs or just a reality check?

Let me know which National on our AR that you would rank lower than Briggs? Or how close to the bottom you'd rank him if you had to rank all our Canadians.  Thomas is quickly approaching the bottom of our roster but he's a primary starter ( because of ratio ). Augustine is fallen out of favour but he does contribute on ST's. Those are the bottom 3 on our roster.

Too early to assess Burtenshaw or Beeksma. Neither have been on the AR for long and / or are injured. Murphy and Kelly are 2023 draft choices on our PR but could be part of the future.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

You have to ask yourself whether any given player would be on the roster if not protected by the ratio. Even Canadian players reach the end of the line eventually.

Another question you might consider is which Canadian depth player would you release if you had to from the AR? Who is at the bottom of the depth chart and has the least potential to grow into a player that can contribute more in the future? Age and SMS are always part of the analysis.

Is that a bias against Briggs or just a reality check?

Let me know which National on our AR that you would rank lower than Briggs? Or how close to the bottom you'd rank him if you had to rank all our Canadians.  Thomas is quickly approaching the bottom of our roster but he's a primary starter ( because of ratio ). Augustine is fallen out of favour but he does contribute on ST's. Those are the bottom 3 on our roster.

Too early to assess Burtenshaw or Beeksma. Neither have been on the AR for long and / or are injured. Murphy and Kelly are 2023 draft choices on our PR but could be part of the future.

My guess is a 1/3 to 1/2 of Canadians would be filtered out basically right away if there was no ratio.

[Blue In BC]

Cadwallader has had a fairly quiet season, I expected this would be the year he'd make a bigger impact on ST and get more reps. at LB.

In 10 games he's had 10 DT's and 10 ST's. Every time I notice him, he's moving fast and aggressively. I'd say he's improved quite a bit since last season.

[Blue In BC]

My guess is a 1/3 to 1/2 of Canadians would be filtered out basically right away if there was no ratio.

Well sure but that wasn't really the point or the intent of the question. Every team has some players that are moving towards the bottom of their roster while others are improving . Our Canadian players are very good overall. The bottom 1/3 on most teams is a little iffy. It was a ranking assessment of where Briggs fits. Aside from getting reps in garbage time, I don't want to see him on defence.

Am I being unfair because I think Briggs has digressed and is closer to the bottom this year than last year? I know O'Shea likes him for his leadership on the team and I can agree with that aspect. However from a pure performance point of view, he's getting less reps for a reason.

Gauthier passed him last year in productivity at WIL and MLB as part of the rotation. For that matter he's more valuable on ST's. Cadwallader is gaining ground and I'd rank him ahead of Briggs.