The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[BlueInCgy]

O'Shea was right. Houston should have knocked it down. Nothing to gain with almost no time on the clock.

Yeah but it happens regularly with all teams late in the game.  Players are programmed to control the ball, and rarely pay attention to down or field position.

[TBURGESS]

I'm with MOS. I growled "I hate that" when Houston made the pick and lost like 50 yards.

[Blue In BC]

Yeah but it happens regularly with all teams late in the game.  Players are programmed to control the ball, and rarely pay attention to down or field position.

Did you watch the Rider / Stamp game last week where the Stamps appeared to be going for an int only to deflect the ball for a Rider TD?  Down and distance, game time remaining, score all need to be taken into account.

It could and was mentioned that Houston gave up the earlier long 80 yard TD due to trying to set up a pic on those short passes to the flat. Now I realize both teams are trying to set up the other team with some pattern recognition. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

Collaros was pic'd in back to back games on that out.

[peg_city]

That O-line still doesn't look good (in the first half).

[Jesse]

How about a rare player criticism by MOS on the post game show when he called Houston's 3rd down INT "selfish football".   

He rarely will do that...and yes he should have just knocked the pass down as a rule in that situation.

And he wasn't joking - he was dead serious.

Dumb thing to say by MOS. Really bugged me.

He explains away terrible plays by players all the time, poor coaching calls, absolutely incompetent roster decisions.

But he calls Houston selfish for making a play at the end of the game? Call out the players who aren't making play for you, Mike.

[Jesse]

The Good:

- Zach moving around in the pocket and throwing on the run
- Run game in the 4th Q
- Kenny Lawler is something special. I was kind of afraid I'd be disappointment when he came back...not at all
- Adjustments to contain Corny's running shut down what offence they had

The Bad:

- OL still having a hard time in the run game and pass pro (save for one drive a game where Brady just turns it on somehow). Zach getting hit too much.

The Ugly:

- How we felt in the stands through the first 3 quarters. Walked away happy, but not feeling optimistic about playing BC in two weeks.

[BlueInCgy]

Did you watch the Rider / Stamp game last week where the Stamps appeared to be going for an int only to deflect the ball for a Rider TD?  Down and distance, game time remaining, score all need to be taken into account.

Didn?t see it, was in South America.  Also not disagreeing with you, it irritates me to no end when any player on any team picks off a pass on 3rd down, especially long ones.  Just bat it down.

[kkc60]

Dumb thing to say by MOS. Really bugged me.

He explains away terrible plays by players all the time, poor coaching calls, absolutely incompetent roster decisions.

But he calls Houston selfish for making a play at the end of the game? Call out the players who aren't making play for you, Mike.

yeah no a really weird battle to pick. Houston for the most part has been lockdown all season. Maybe take issue with the OL, the short yardage struggles (the got a promising young QB cut only for the issue to persist) or the consistent struggle vs mobile QBs

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

It took a game-and-a-half for the Bombers to get their terrible football out of their system, but by the second half last night they were more or less back on track.

I think they O-line is ageing out a bit, and some changes need to be coming there. Other than that, I seem to be a lot less concerned than a lot of other people here.

It's a long season. There will be ups and downs, and the important thing is to peak at the right time. The Bombers last year were absolutely unbeatable for roughly the first half of the season, one of the greatest teams in CFL history during that time. Where did it get them? No Grey Cup, that's for sure.

It could be argued that they peaked too early last year; the same thing happened with the incredible 2001 team. There's no way we want that to happen again.

The talent is still there. We need longer memories. I can't even fathom the mindset of a fan who's enjoyed the past few seasons, but then threatens to turn the game off after two series in the first quarter. You guys are a tough crowd. Is that what an exceptional run of success buys a team? A fanbase that jumps off the bandwagon at the slightest sign of struggle?

I could understand this ten years ago, when they were consistently awful, year after year, but this team has built up a lot of goodwill, and deserve the benefit of the doubt for awhile now. Even if they are slowing down and getting old, they're not going from 15-3 to 9-9 in one season, and even if they did, it's the Circle of Life, football edition. The bye week has come at the best possible time; let's see what happens going forward.

But show a bit of respect for everything this team has accomplished. Some of you sound like you would have booed Kenny Ploen in 1967, because what has he done for us lately?

If I want blind panic, resentment, and paranoia, I'll go to riderfans.com. We should be better than that here.

I think this is a bit extreme, no one is jumping off the band wagon, did you see the stands?  They were full of cheering fans even after the poor showing in Ottawa, the Bombers have the highest attendance numbers and the most enthusiastic fans in the league this season.

Cracks are appearing in the team and competitors have stepped up this season threatening the Bombers past dominance, in fact dominance can be taken out of the equation as they are struggling in most games to play to the level they've established in the past few years.  Blind faith is great if you choose to wash it all down with beer and wave a pom-pom, but the difference between winning and losing games is in minute details that can be addressed and corrected, if you don't care to examine those details, a fan forum might not be the right place for you to spend your time.

[Waffler]

Did you watch the Rider / Stamp game last week where the Stamps appeared to be going for an int only to deflect the ball for a Rider TD?  Down and distance, game time remaining, score all need to be taken into account.

Exactly right and the way MOS said it makes me think they were coached to play it for the knock down based on the situation. He likes the smart play.

[Ducky]

Yeah but it happens regularly with all teams late in the game.  Players are programmed to control the ball, and rarely pay attention to down or field position.

You are taught to pay attention to that in Pee Wee, aren't you?  If he is not paying attention that it is third down and a turnover gives us the ball near the endzone then he is not doing his job.  Situational awareness is v. important.  Oshae is right it was a selfish play.

[theaardvark]

Here's the thing, in the CFL I've seen D players that can make an INT knock it down instead maybe 3 times in 10 years.  They are just programmed to INT and when it's coming their way their brain shortcircuits and they just act on instinct.  Ya, they want the stat, but they have to change up their muscle memory for one rare play and they often just forget.  I bet they never practice that, either.

You could also argue that if you try an unpracticed knockdown instead, you may flub it and instead tip it to the receiver.  When they have a definite bead on a sure INT, might it be safer to secure it properly?  And at the very end of a game, it doesn't matter anyhow, unless we wanted to run up the score.

Sure, muscle memory, yadda yada... but, like when a returner is in the eldzone late in a tie game, there has to be a message sent FOR THAT PLAY ONLY.  3RD and long, every DB has to be reminded "KNOCKDOWN IS BETTER FOR THE TEAM THAN AN INT ON *THIS* PLAY".  The secondary has to be reminded that, for this play, making sure that ball is on the turf is more important than a stat on the scoresheet.  Going for an interception can open up a simultaneous catch (goes to the O), or a tip that gets caught, or even a miss that opens up the REC to advance.  Batting the ball to the ground kills the play, and almost as important, shows you are *team first*.

The fact that many of his team mates celebrated the INT with him also was bad, and you can bet, next week, in the film room, there will be a discussion.  This may be one INT that a player may be made to do pushups for, as opposed to doing pushups for missing an INT.  

If OSH had reminded them, and he still caught the ball, I understand his frustration.  I love what Houston brings, but he got beat bad on the Elks TD, and had some other issues, the INT iced it.  OSH is a team first coach, and won't put up with selfish.  Sure, he had plenty of players that did not make plays they should have that he could have called out, but were they plays where the player was selfish?  Or were those players trying their hardest, and just plain got beat?  Mistakes happen, misplays happen, errors happen.  Those are coachable moments.  Ballhawks are selfish, which is what makes them ballhawks.  But there comes a time where team comes before stats.  And celebrating a selfish play is rubbing salt in the wound of a coach.  I know I was in the stands and say What The Heck is Houston doing?  INT *AND* a celebration?  If I'm feeling that way, I get why OSH was...

[Cool Spot]

Exactly right and the way MOS said it makes me think they were coached to play it for the knock down based on the situation. He likes the smart play.

I heard O'Shea on the post-game show as well. I didn't see the game, but saw the highlights and the interception this morning. Seems pretty marginal, Houston is clearly shorter than the receiver he was defending, had the inside position, and the EDM receiver is reaching over Houston trying to grab it. Houston is in-between the ball and EDM receiver, grabbing the ball (intercepting it) when it arrives, and then cradling/protecting the ball. One could argue that at this point he could/should have batted it down, but one could also argue he was protecting against EDM somehow coming up with it. Seems clear to me it could go either way.

On such a marginal play, I think I come down on the side that O'Shea may have had a point that the better play is to swat it down, but he probably over-reacted given the circumstances.

[The Zipp]

Dumb thing to say by MOS. Really bugged me.

He explains away terrible plays by players all the time, poor coaching calls, absolutely incompetent roster decisions.

But he calls Houston selfish for making a play at the end of the game? Call out the players who aren't making play for you, Mike.

I was more surprised than bugged but you make a good point - he never really comments on clear issues players have and one this one he did.  Maybe Houston is the one that will be benched for returning players?

It was just very out of character for MOS and I wouldn't be surprised if he regrets saying it. 

[bwiser]

I am starting to think that the weak link in our secondary is Houston. He leads the league in INT's but he also gets picked on more and misses more tackles than anyone else in the secondary. I think ADS has surpassed Houston.