Fake-conceding a safety

[3rdand1.5]

It was subtle but the refs are setting the precedent. There were a few "odd" calls in week one;

The fake knee
The celebration roll into a ref
The "glancing blow" no call to a QB's head

As long as they are consistent all year it's good, I do think the "Head swipe" will be the most difficult to keep consistent, as the head did actually move slightly.

[TBURGESS]

That was a BS call. He just stood there then took off. He didn't fake taking a knee.

[Jesse]

That was a BS call. He just stood there then took off. He didn't fake taking a knee.

I thought he faked it watching live, but I haven?t seen a replay.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Correction - it would be Andre ?De Ammer? Proulx.  If we?re assigning nicknames, let?s get it right.

As far as the call goes, I thought it was weak.  He barely flexed his knee.  That being said, I thought the refs were a little flag happy with the objectionable conduct and misconduct penalties in week 1, with the exception of the splash that was called.

I rewatched the play and can see why Proulx called it, after he received the ball he backed up slowly in a half crouch for a few seconds were he could have dropped to his knee in an instant, he was definitely sending mixed messages about his intentions.

[TBURGESS]

I rewatched the play and can see why Proulx called it, after he received the ball he backed up slowly in a half crouch for a few seconds were he could have dropped to his knee in an instant, he was definitely sending mixed messages about his intentions.

He backed up slowly. He could have dropped to knee, but didn't. You can't throw the flag on what he could have done.

He's not a kicker, his intention was clearly to waste time by running around. There were no mixed messages, just a BS call.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

He backed up slowly. He could have dropped to knee, but didn't. You can't throw the flag on what he could have done.

He's not a kicker, his intention was clearly to waste time by running around. There were no mixed messages, just a BS call.

Isn't the very definition of a fake indicating you're about to do something, then not doing it?

[TecnoGenius]

He backed up slowly. He could have dropped to knee, but didn't. You can't throw the flag on what he could have done.

But they didn't throw the flag on "what he could have done".  They threw the flag on the fake.  He did the fake.  He didn't "could have done it"... he done it!  I know what you're saying, but you'll have to refine your logic and wording.

Ok, you made me go make a screenshot.  At this point in time he has not moved laterally even one inch.  He has only backpedaled.  Gauthier is going to cream him.  Looking at it more times, I really think Proulx was trying to blow the play dead as  soon as it remotely appeared to be a concession, before Adeleke got hurt.

https://fsi.ca/tec/fake-conceding.jpg

How low do the head & knee have to go before you say it's a fake knee?  Who knows.  But the precedent has been set.  If the league doesn't like it, they can clarify.  Moral of the story is, if you want to dink around in the EZ to kill time, stay upright at all times.

P.S. This isn't a who-cares call because you could argue the time saved for us led directly to the FG score a few clock seconds later.

[TecnoGenius]

with the exception of the splash that was called.

The beauty of that belly-flop is that a) we got to hear the name "King Kong Bundy" again, and b) it will go down in the history of CFL folklore, never to be forgotten, and oft-referenced.  A true classic.

The best part of it all is Gray is laying there like "ho hum, who cares, I'm 350, you're only 300, nya nya".  It's like 2 walruses fighting in a mating ritual.

[TecnoGenius]

The celebration roll into a ref

I liked that call.  It could have gone either way.  The thing is, it says "before you celebrate, take into account where the refs are".  That's reasonable.  It was easily avoidable.  Besides the nads whack, Kroeker could have been seriously injured (concussion if his head hits the turf).

[TBURGESS]

IMO He didn't fake taking a knee. He just waited until we got close and took off. It's something you see several times a season & I can't remember the last time it was called. We've all seen way worse cases of faking going down that weren't flagged. Why did the choose this play to set a new precedence?

As for the roll into the ref. That's a penalty every time.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

The beauty of that belly-flop is that a) we got to hear the name "King Kong Bundy" again, and b) it will go down in the history of CFL folklore, never to be forgotten, and oft-referenced.  A true classic.

The best part of it all is Gray is laying there like "ho hum, who cares, I'm 350, you're only 300, nya nya".  It's like 2 walruses fighting in a mating ritual.

I saw the incident that riled Diallo up, it was the play just before Piggy came in on the first short yardage plunge at the goal line, I think this was just before halftime. Diallo was laying face down on the ground and Hardrick rolled over him while untangling himself from the pile, it "looked" totally unintentional but Diallo jumped up ready to fight, while Yoshi lumbered away oblivious to the chaos left in his wake. 

[TecnoGenius]

IMO He didn't fake taking a knee. He just waited until we got close and took off. It's something you see several times a season & I can't remember the last time it was called. We've all seen way worse cases of faking going down that weren't flagged. Why did the choose this play to set a new precedence?

He didn't just wait then take off.  He took the snap and instantly was backpedaling.  As in walking backwards.  As in not turning to either direction.  When a P is backing up, it basically means they are going to take a knee.  That's already sending signals to the rushers.

In many other instances the P takes the snap and instantly turns and starts running, even if to the back of the EZ.  Not all, but many.  That is making it more obvious you are not going to take a knee and are trying to screw around (this could be useful for a new rule: if you're dancing around you must turn your body immediately; taking knees you can only backpedal).

Can you dispute in the pic I sent that his knee is getting mighty close to the field?  Is it halfway down?  Again, does the ref start measuring knee-height, or leg angle in a split second?

You can't remember the last time it was called because the rule was added in 2022 and this situation hadn't arisen yet.  I watch all the CFL games and I'm pretty sure this is the first occurrence.  There was the play, probably in 2019(?) or 2021(?) in one of our games where some guy is dancing around and faking going down like 3 times and finally our guy comes over and just pastes him the final time he takes a knee.  The pasting was pretty rough and some were looking for a UR, but no flag was thrown, because the clown deserved it.  This new rule is trying to avoid that hellacious pasting the faker can get.

I get what you're saying, and it is a marginal call, and that's why it would be nice to get more CFL clarification.  But I also see the point of the new rule.

Watch it again and focus on Gauthier, and put yourself in his shoes, because not only does he not get the tackle because he thought the P was conceding, but he in turn gets pushed roughly by the blocker who has time to catch up due to him holding up on the hit (probably a IB to boot).  Allowing a lot of fakery is not fair to a guy like Gauthier because he's damned-if-he-does (potential UR) and damned-if-he-doesn't (P gets away / kills more clock, or worse, escapes the EZ for a TD).

[TecnoGenius]

I saw the incident that riled Diallo up, it was the play just before Piggy came in on the first short yardage plunge at the goal line, I think this was just before halftime. Diallo was laying face down on the ground and Hardrick rolled over him while untangling himself from the pile, it "looked" totally unintentional but Diallo jumped up ready to fight, while Yoshi lumbered away oblivious to the chaos left in his wake. 

Not just that.  Gray especially loves to cruise the pile.  It's just what he does.  Within the whistle he can usually get away with it.  Other players too, including Yoshi, like to do the ol' "I'm just getting up and happen to be using you as my step stool" dominance / demoralization display.

Every team does it.  The key is to be subtle and within the whistles.  Otherwise you are taking 15's and hurting your team.  Nothing subtle about a belly flop!

Diallo clearly had had enough and felt demoralized and that coupled with his poor impulse control gave us 15 and some great camera footage.  Kudos to his vet team mate(s) like Davis(?I think?) trying to slap some sense into him.  Not a good look that they had massive in-fighting on the bench.  That'll kill them throughout the year if they don't get players in line.  Think Marino.

My main question now is, when do find out what the fine is?  Can this warrant a suspension, or because no one was hurt they'll just drop it?

[BLUEBOMBER]

Clearly the Hamilton players have no discipline at all...  The bellyflop was the worst ... it was funny though..

[TBURGESS]

He didn't just wait then take off.  He took the snap and instantly was backpedaling.  As in walking backwards.  As in not turning to either direction.  When a P is backing up, it basically means they are going to take a knee.  That's already sending signals to the rushers.

In many other instances the P takes the snap and instantly turns and starts running, even if to the back of the EZ.  Not all, but many.  That is making it more obvious you are not going to take a knee and are trying to screw around (this could be useful for a new rule: if you're dancing around you must turn your body immediately; taking knees you can only backpedal).

Can you dispute in the pic I sent that his knee is getting mighty close to the field?  Is it halfway down?  Again, does the ref start measuring knee-height, or leg angle in a split second?

You can't remember the last time it was called because the rule was added in 2022 and this situation hadn't arisen yet.  I watch all the CFL games and I'm pretty sure this is the first occurrence.  There was the play, probably in 2019(?) or 2021(?) in one of our games where some guy is dancing around and faking going down like 3 times and finally our guy comes over and just pastes him the final time he takes a knee.  The pasting was pretty rough and some were looking for a UR, but no flag was thrown, because the clown deserved it.  This new rule is trying to avoid that hellacious pasting the faker can get.

I get what you're saying, and it is a marginal call, and that's why it would be nice to get more CFL clarification.  But I also see the point of the new rule.

Watch it again and focus on Gauthier, and put yourself in his shoes, because not only does he not get the tackle because he thought the P was conceding, but he in turn gets pushed roughly by the blocker who has time to catch up due to him holding up on the hit (probably a IB to boot).  Allowing a lot of fakery is not fair to a guy like Gauthier because he's damned-if-he-does (potential UR) and damned-if-he-doesn't (P gets away / kills more clock, or worse, escapes the EZ for a TD).

He isn't a punter, back peddling isn't kneeling, there is no rule that says you have to instantly start running or that you can't 'dance'.

What the rushers are thinking doesn't matter either, nor does any other play where no flag was thrown.

The only thing that matters is... Did he fake taking a knee or not? Some folks contend that you can see he did in slow motion or in a single frame. I say it's like PI, if you can't tell at real speed, then it's not a penalty.