Is the punting job Legghio's to lose?

[Pigskin]

That sort of puts him in the second tier of CFL punters, from what I can see. I filtered the punting stats to punters with >20 punts last year and sorted the stats by punting average (which, I grant, isn't the whole story).
- Top Tier = Haggerty (Tor) and Grace (Cal)
- Second Tier = Flintoft (BC), Zema (Mtl), Mengel (Edm), Liegghil (Wpg), Leone (Ott)
- Third Tier = Domagala (Ham), Vedvik (Sk)

Not great, but not terrible.

How many of these punters were doing both PK and punting?

[Blue In BC]

That sort of puts him in the second tier of CFL punters, from what I can see. I filtered the punting stats to punters with >20 punts last year and sorted the stats by punting average (which, I grant, isn't the whole story).
- Top Tier = Haggerty (Tor) and Grace (Cal)
- Second Tier = Flintoft (BC), Zema (Mtl), Mengel (Edm), Liegghil (Wpg), Leone (Ott)
- Third Tier = Domagala (Ham), Vedvik (Sk)

Not great, but not terrible.

His average was less than 1.5 yards than the punter with the best average.

It isn't the entire story. Not every punt is punted for distance as the primary goal. He did fairly well on pinning opponents deep. Bombers moved the ball a lot on offence and weren't often having to punt for distance compared to many other teams.

His issue was hang time at times. Placement and distance when required didn't seem to be problems.

[pdirks67]

The problem with that stat is it doesn't account for hang time, return yards, accuracy. The guy isn't a bad punter. He's not a bad place kicker either. Doesn't mean I don't think he's in a dead heat.

I am pretty sure that the punting average would be "net punting yard average" - correct? If so, wouldn't it account for return yards, and (indirectly) hang time/accuracy in that these last two things impact return yards?

Either way, I 100% agree that he's "not bad" - a second tier punter that doesn't really hurt us or help us.

[pdirks67]

How many of these punters were doing both PK and punting?

I think that this is a really good point! I think that only Liegghio and Domagala did both? That makes sense, intuitively. Teams decide on whether to use up an extra roster position or get slightly better performance at each job. It's a tradeoff, and it would make sense that it's difficult to excel at both.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I am pretty sure that the punting average would be "net punting yard average" - correct? If so, wouldn't it account for return yards, and (indirectly) hang time/accuracy in that these last two things impact return yards?

Either way, I 100% agree that he's "not bad" - a second tier punter that doesn't really hurt us or help us.

46.9 is his gross average. They make you do your own math to find the net punting average which is a much worse 36.7 yard per kick. Essentially, when he punts, the Bombers can expect 36.7 yards at the end of it. Draw your own conclusions. 

[Blue In BC]

46.9 is his gross average. They make you do your own math to find the net punting average which is a much worse 36.7 yard per kick. Essentially, when he punts, the Bombers can expect 36.7 yards at the end of it. It's no wonder they brought in punting and kicking competition.

What is the net punt average info on the other punters in 2022? Where is the info and where punts are made? IE: If you're punting from the opponent side of the field, you may not be looking for distance as much as from your own side of the field. A 30 yard punt from the opponent 40 yard line that goes out on their 5 impacts the math over the course of a season.

How many punts inside the 20 did he or any other punter have?

[Blue In BC]

I just found this link on punting average etc etc.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/159484_f2bbe220f4e744f29f331e308783a7c6~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_740,h_153,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/159484_f2bbe220f4e744f29f331e308783a7c6~mv2.png

[Sir Blue and Gold]

What is the net punt average info on the other punters in 2022? Where is the info and where punts are made? IE: If you're punting from the opponent side of the field, you may not be looking for distance as much as from your own side of the field. A 30 yard punt from the opponent 40 yard line that goes out on their 5 impacts the math over the course of a season.

How many punts inside the 20 did he or any other punter have?

I am not going to do your "leg" work for you. It sure is odd though, that after almost no kicking competition in camp last year, this year we have as many kickers dressed as linebackers for the the second preseason game.

But yes, in most situations the longest kick is not always the best. It is a stat worth looking at all the same.

[Blue In BC]

I am not going to do your "leg" work for you. It sure is odd though, that after almost no kicking competition in camp last year, this year we have as many kickers dressed as linebackers for the the second preseason game.

But yes, in most situations the longest kick is not always the best. It is a stat worth looking at all the same.

I found the info about some of that above. If you're going to make an argument then you should provide as much detail as possible then just picking your slant on things. It's been said you can prove anything with stats. Stats never provide the complete picture.

What the coaches asked for in a given situation none of us know.

[pdirks67]

46.9 is his gross average. They make you do your own math to find the net punting average which is a much worse 36.7 yard per kick. Essentially, when he punts, the Bombers can expect 36.7 yards at the end of it. Draw your own conclusions. 

You are correct, sir!

A much more nuanced view. I think it actually moves Liegghio down the list, if anything.

Here's the more detailed punting stats from the end of the year PDF that I downloaded from the website a few weeks ago.
https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2050/11/2022_CFL_League_Statistics_Wk21.pdf

[Blue In BC]

You are correct, sir!

A much more nuanced view. I think it actually moves Liegghio down the list, if anything.

Here's the more detailed punting stats from the end of the year PDF that I downloaded from the website a few weeks ago.
https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2050/11/2022_CFL_League_Statistics_Wk21.pdf

Yes and no. There are so many factors. Wind and wind direction. Punt coverage success by each team. Would I like a better net average? Certainly but it's not all on him. We talking about 3 yards difference in net yardage.

It's all about context.  That's good info though, thanks for looking it up.

Look at the info I posted. It shows he had 28 kicks inside the 20. Only Leone had more at 30. Where those punts were from and where " inside the 20 " are not details I can find. However, every punt inside the 20 is generally an attempt to shorten a kick to pin the opponent. It will skew data somewhat.

[bomb squad]

I think the long term prospects for Leggs is enough for him to remain a Bomber.

If it's only on the practice roster, unless somebody gets injured or craps the bed early, I don't think he will last too long. CFL teams typically don't have the luxury of keeping that many kickers on their roster for very long.

[Lincoln Locomotive]

As a certified short person I hate to say it but Leggs just doesn't have the right body type to ever become a smooth kicking machine.  I relate kickers to golfers in athletic ability, the ideal pro-golfer shape is long and lean to best deliver a fluid stroke, like Medlock.  A muscled up Liegghio just doesn't cut it.

Interesting concept....never thought of that.   Legghio did make a couple of TD saving tackles and sidestepped a two man rush and booted a 65 yarder on the run.....perhaps that's the upside of being shorter and muscled.....

[pdirks67]

Here's my total guesswork probabilities.

Placekicker
- Castillo: 80%. Unless Staton has a career game tonight or there is a big issue with the ratio, it's his job to lose.
- Staton: 15%. He needs a career game tonight. Something like 3/3 with a 57 yarder.
- Liegghio: 5%. Unless there's a ratio issue, he's not our PK to start the season.

Punter
- Liegghio: 40%. He's the devil we know, and he's Canadian.
- Sheahan: 35%. In a battle with Schmitz, the other global punter. One shank and he cuts himself, but he's younger than Schmitz, which should count for something. Might have some Aussie-rules-type-punts in his toolbox that might come in handy.
- Schmitz: 25%. He's in a battle with Sheahan, and can't afford a mediocre kick because he's the older guy and (I think?) he loses out in draw with the younger guy. He has the best story of the bunch, so there's that.

Anyone else care to go out on a limb and handicap these two battles?

I'm a bit disappointed that no one has (yet) told me how wrong I am with my guesswork here...

[Blue In BC]

I'm a bit disappointed that no one has (yet) told me how wrong I am with my guesswork here...

Ok. You're wrong. Maybe not on the ranking but the % estimates are just wild guesses. As good as any and as bad as any.  It would be interesting to know how much Castillo's contract is at the moment. He's a good kicker and very experienced. That does give him a large advantage but we did draft a contender. OTOH if he's earning $130K compared to an ELC for a rookie that is close competition, that may influence the decision.