Illegal Procedure on TE?

[TecnoGenius]

BC@CGY game 2Q1:24, Begelton is in as (an eligible!) TE (6th OL essentially).  From what I can see he is NOT in a 3-pt stance.  Just doing the standing-with-arms-on-legs thing.

He shuffles over along the line (never leaving the line) before the snap.

Refs blow it dead pre-snap and call IP on Begelton.  Looks like Dickenson is chirping but it remains IP.

The funny thing is BC did the exact same thing earlier in the game (I can dig it up after).  In my mind, based on my understanding of the rules, this is not IP.  The eligible guy can do whatever he wants along the line as long as he's not in a 3-pt stance.

I think it was Miller who famously did this once on our OL where they had preplanned they were going to really jerk up to try to draw an offsides.

So is this IP or not?

[TecnoGenius]

In addition to doing it earlier in the game, BC does it again later in the game 4Q5:46.  Both instance, no IP called.

[TBURGESS]

Was he still on the LOS? If not then no end = IP.

[Stats Junkie]

Begelton was within 3 yards of the OT at the snap which meant he was subject to the same rules as the O-linemen. This meant Begelton had to be motionless for a full second prior to the snap. Begelton rocked back slightly before the snap which is procedure.

In the other play you mention, the BC receiver started close to the OT but had shifted outside the 3 yards by the time the ball was snapped. No procedure penalty.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Begelton was within 3 yards of the OT at the snap which meant he was subject to the same rules as the O-linemen. This meant Begelton had to be motionless for a full second prior to the snap. Begelton rocked back slightly before the snap which is procedure.

In the other play you mention, the BC receiver started close to the OT but had shifted outside the 3 yards by the time the ball was snapped. No procedure penalty.

Thank you! You have likely saved Techno 46 hours of reviewing old PVR tape and a myriad of posts updating progress!

[TecnoGenius]

Was he still on the LOS? If not then no end = IP.

It can't be a no-end IP because the play was whistled dead either pre-snap or right at the snap.  No-end calls are always allowed to play out, then check with the line judge, then call no-end.

In any case, yes, he was on the LOS the whole time (well, as "on it" as the RT was, and I'm sure he "checked in").

[TecnoGenius]

Begelton was within 3 yards of the OT at the snap which meant he was subject to the same rules as the O-linemen. This meant Begelton had to be motionless for a full second prior to the snap. Begelton rocked back slightly before the snap which is procedure.

In the other play you mention, the BC receiver started close to the OT but had shifted outside the 3 yards by the time the ball was snapped. No procedure penalty.

Ah!  If that's the rule then you are right, that's the difference.  The 4Q BC example he gets up and shifts over roughly 3 yards from the OL pre-snap.  (Anyone measuring this, it's mighty close and hard to eyeball from the sticks!)

I'll try to dig up the 1Q example, but I'm sure you're right, and that guy shifted 3 yards too.

I thought the rule had to do more with having a hand on the ground (3 point stance) as that's always what TSN blabs about when a TE gets IP.

To be precise, though, Begelton didn't rock back, he deliberately shifted a whole body-width over.  It was a deliberate motion.

Thinking back to the Mike Miller instance he got up and walked >3 yards away too, so that's why it worked then.

Thanks for teaching me something new.

[TecnoGenius]

Thank you! You have likely saved Techno 46 hours of reviewing old PVR tape and a myriad of posts updating progress!

Yes, at least 100 posts for sure!    That's why I asked the question, I had a feeling someone would have a full understanding of what was going on.