Nationalized Import ( Bomber )

[Sir Blue and Gold]

If we only have 2 DI's and 2 of the Nationalized come from the " list mentioned ", doesn't that reduce the number of Americans on the roster by 2?  All of those players are starters.

Even Collaros qualifies as a Nationalized player. There isn't anybody on the list except Grant that I want to see have less reps. Hence the issue of the entire Nationalized concept.

Nope. You still have 20 Americans per game day roster (not including QBs). Usually, 16 of the Americans start. The remaining 4 can be DIs/nationalized players (2 each). What the change is trying to do is instead of the DIs only being allowed to sub for American players, 2 could also sub for Canadian players (and 3 next year) for 49% of snaps.

Of course you don't want any of those guys to have less snaps. But let's say Demski and O'Leary Orange are hurt. We have no good roster options to start a Canadian there any longer. So, you have to roster an American  WR and make up the ratio somewhere else. In the past, that means an American starter loses his starting spot for no real fault of his own. In our current roster make-up, honestly, it's probably Alexander for Nick Hallett as that drop off didn't crush us last year. Or maybe Clements/Wilson for Gauthier. Instead of completely sitting Alexander or Clements/Wilson (or playing a Rifles receiver, gah) we could platoon the position with Wilson and Gauthier or Hallett and Alexander and play an American at WR. Got it? It's a win-win.

[Blue In BC]

Nope. You still have 20 Americans per game day roster (not including QBs). Usually, 16 of the Americans start. The remaining 4 can be DIs/nationalized players (2 each). What the change is trying to do is instead of the DIs only being allowed to sub for American players, 2 could also sub for Canadian players (and 3 next year) for 49% of snaps.

Of course you don't want any of those guys to have less snaps. But let's say Demski and O'Leary Orange are hurt. We have no good roster options to start a Canadian there any longer. So, you have to roster an American  WR and make up the ratio somewhere else. In the past, that means an American starter loses his starting spot for no real fault of his own. In our current roster make-up, honestly, it's probably Alexander for Nick Hallett as that drop off didn't crush us last year. Or maybe Clements/Wilson for Gauthier. Instead of completely sitting Alexander or Clements/Wilson (or playing a Rifles receiver, gah) we could platoon the position with Wilson and Gauthier or Hallett and Alexander and play an American at WR. Got it? It's a win-win.

I get what this is trying to do. As I've said from the beginning it falls to who the 4 DI  / Nationalized players turn out to be. That's where we currently lose any advantage. Sure if Demski is injured we could insert Agudosi as an option. The two fold problem is that Agudosi is not on the game day roster as a DI and we'd have to bench Alexander for half the game.

IMO we'd actually continue to play another Canadian ( O'Leary-Orange ) both in game and on going if a starting Canadian receiver is injured.

Essentially a given team needs 2 veteran imports that don't normally start to be part of the 4 extra imports. Whether they are called DI's or Nationalized is clerical.

Brings me back to a player like Coleman who would fit the bill. Walker moves to a starting role and Coleman replaces him in the rotation player role.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I get what this is trying to do. As I've said from the beginning it falls to who the 4 DI  / Nationalized players turn out to be. That's where we currently lose any advantage. Sure if Demski is injured we could insert Agudosi as an option. The two fold problem is that Agudosi is not on the game day roster as a DI and we'd have to bench Alexander for half the game.

IMO we'd actually continue to play another Canadian ( O'Leary-Orange ) both in game and on going if a starting Canadian receiver is injured.

Essentially a given team needs 2 veteran imports that don't normally start to be part of the 4 extra imports. Whether they are called DI's or Nationalized is clerical.

Brings me back to a player like Coleman who would fit the bill. Walker moves to a starting role and Coleman replaces him in the rotation player role.

I think you're sort of thinking about it wrong. It's less of an in-game injury thing and more of a way to deal with long term injuries. You're not going to try and roster experienced imports in case a Canadian gets hurt in the 3rd quarter. You're going to use the flexibility over the medium-long term if you get a bunch of injuries to your Canadian starters for which there's no real ability to have much depth for.

[Stats Junkie]

One thing to consider - the 2 teams whose nationals play the most snaps during the season get a bonus draft pick at the end of the 2nd round. There is an incentive to not take full advantage of the naturalized American rules.

[Blue In BC]

I think you're sort of thinking about it wrong. It's less of an in-game injury thing and more of a way to deal with long term injuries. You're not going to try and roster experienced imports in case a Canadian gets hurt in the 3rd quarter. You're going to use the flexibility over the medium-long term if you get a bunch of injuries to your Canadian starters for which there's no real ability to have much depth for.

You aren't going to have much success finding veterans after the first few games. You need to have them in TC and agree to a PR spot. As we did with Nathan Roosevelt in 2021. The catch is will that type of veteran sit on the PR.

Being able to add a rookie import to replace a starting Canadian is at the cost of sitting a veteran import for half the game.

In 2022 we got to add McCrae as a receiver because Wilson and Alexander were both long term injuries. In fact we ended up starting 3 Canadians on defence with Gauthier at WIL and Hallett at safety.

If both of those players were healthy that would not have been the trade off made IMO. O'Leary-Orange would have stepped in as he did for a few games when ratio criteria changed.

Every game is a bit of a juggling act but I stand with the need for 2 veteran imports that aren't starting, listed as Nationalized as the best solution. Whether we find them or not, looks less likely at the moment especially after comments from O'Shea.

Veterans = SMS cost and roster size and where imports actually start.

[the paw]

I think you're sort of thinking about it wrong. It's less of an in-game injury thing and more of a way to deal with long term injuries. You're not going to try and roster experienced imports in case a Canadian gets hurt in the 3rd quarter. You're going to use the flexibility over the medium-long term if you get a bunch of injuries to your Canadian starters for which there's no real ability to have much depth for.

I think you have the correct perspective.  Blue in BC, bless his heart, seems to get vapour-locked on the how the new nationalized players interface with the DI designation.  We've been around the mulberry bush on this issue awhile ago.  To be fair, the league hasn't really spelled out how this works from a procedural view, so there are some leaps in logic and assumptions that need to be made, and we will have to see how it works in practice.

My own theory is that teams are likely to use the new status players in positions that already see a high degree of rotation and substitution. I think this will happen through "triangulation", using 3 players to fill 2 positions.  Example will be the MLB and WIL positions.  The Bombers could designate Bighill as a nationalized CDN and DI and use him in rotation with Kyrie Wilson and Gauthier.

Why would we sit Bighill?  We already give him regular rests in the defensive rotation.  In this 3 person example, let's assume (for purposes of easy math) there are 100 defensive snaps in a game.  Between MLB and WIL there are 200 reps available.  We need to play Gauthier for 55 snaps for him to count as a starter.  Bighill, as the DI/Naturalized can play 45 snaps, but he can also come in as a sub for Wilson, for say 30 snaps.  That scenario works out with Bighill at 75 snaps, Wilson at 70 snaps and Gauthier at 55 snaps.  So, counterintuitively, Bighill plays the most snaps even though he is the DI.

I could see a lot of teams using this approach at DE, although in the Bombers case, I don't see the Cdn DE who makes it work.  On offence, I think the two-man platooning between Janarion Grant and Wolitarsky is most likely, although I would not expect it to get a ton of use.  Grant hasn't established himself as an effective downfield receiver, and since the Bombers tend to use their DIs on defence, I don't see them adding another one to the offensive side. 

I could be wrong though....

[pjrocksmb]

I think you have the correct perspective.  Blue in BC, bless his heart, seems to get vapour-locked on the how the new nationalized players interface with the DI designation.  We've been around the mulberry bush on this issue awhile ago.  To be fair, the league hasn't really spelled out how this works from a procedural view, so there are some leaps in logic and assumptions that need to be made, and we will have to see how it works in practice.

My own theory is that teams are likely to use the new status players in positions that already see a high degree of rotation and substitution. I think this will happen through "triangulation", using 3 players to fill 2 positions.  Example will be the MLB and WIL positions.  The Bombers could designate Bighill as a nationalized CDN and DI and use him in rotation with Kyrie Wilson and Gauthier.

Why would we sit Bighill?  We already give him regular rests in the defensive rotation.  In this 3 person example, let's assume (for purposes of easy math) there are 100 defensive snaps in a game.  Between MLB and WIL there are 200 reps available.  We need to play Gauthier for 55 snaps for him to count as a starter.  Bighill, as the DI/Naturalized can play 45 snaps, but he can also come in as a sub for Wilson, for say 30 snaps.  That scenario works out with Bighill at 75 snaps, Wilson at 70 snaps and Gauthier at 55 snaps.  So, counterintuitively, Bighill plays the most snaps even though he is the DI.

I could see a lot of teams using this approach at DE, although in the Bombers case, I don't see the Cdn DE who makes it work.  On offence, I think the two-man platooning between Janarion Grant and Wolitarsky is most likely, although I would not expect it to get a ton of use.  Grant hasn't established himself as an effective downfield receiver, and since the Bombers tend to use their DIs on defence, I don't see them adding another one to the offensive side. 

I could be wrong though....

This discussion continues to offer some insight to this new option, thanks all.

I can't see or want Grant to play as a down field receiver.  That said some touches on offence is ok in other ways.

[TecnoGenius]

This discussion continues to offer some insight to this new option, thanks all.

Not to me: I'm more confused now than when I started!!   

I think you have the correct perspective.  Blue in BC, bless his heart, seems to get vapour-locked on the how the new nationalized players interface with the DI designation.

BinBC is usually the one explaining the ratio rules to me!  If BinBC is a bit lost, then I'm afraid that the whole thing has already lost at least 75% of the uber fans here.  That's to say nothing of the "normal" fans who just like going to games.

Garbage convoluted roster rules like these are not good for anyone, nor for the league.  I'm highly dissatisfied.  At the very least the CFL can't put a web page up that definitively lists the current rules??  No one seems to know for sure what they are or where they are written (that isn't from 2021).  Sad.

Here's my take after reading everything: vet IMPs that may be falling off the wagon have an extended lease on life, and probably a bump in value.  I love Darvin, but no one would be talking him up as a possibility were these new rules not in place.  And maybe it helps finagle ARs when a top-tier NAT gets a big injury.  Seems like a lot of cruft to get those questionable results.

One thing to consider - the 2 teams whose nationals play the most snaps during the season get a bonus draft pick at the end of the 2nd round. There is an incentive to not take full advantage of the naturalized American rules.

Extra 2nd RDP has value even if for nothing else as trade-bait.  Thus, I would hope KW is assigning some junior yeoman to track where we stand in this "race" during the season.  If we're anywhere close to being in the "top-3" of this, we need to do the extra work to ensure we end up winning those extra DPs.  I would hope the league is going to publish this stat each week?  Otherwise said yeoman is going to have to track the stat for every team!  Ouch.

[Blue In BC]

I think you have the correct perspective.  Blue in BC, bless his heart, seems to get vapour-locked on the how the new nationalized players interface with the DI designation.  We've been around the mulberry bush on this issue awhile ago.  To be fair, the league hasn't really spelled out how this works from a procedural view, so there are some leaps in logic and assumptions that need to be made, and we will have to see how it works in practice.

My own theory is that teams are likely to use the new status players in positions that already see a high degree of rotation and substitution. I think this will happen through "triangulation", using 3 players to fill 2 positions.  Example will be the MLB and WIL positions.  The Bombers could designate Bighill as a nationalized CDN and DI and use him in rotation with Kyrie Wilson and Gauthier.

Why would we sit Bighill?  We already give him regular rests in the defensive rotation.  In this 3 person example, let's assume (for purposes of easy math) there are 100 defensive snaps in a game.  Between MLB and WIL there are 200 reps available.  We need to play Gauthier for 55 snaps for him to count as a starter.  Bighill, as the DI/Naturalized can play 45 snaps, but he can also come in as a sub for Wilson, for say 30 snaps.  That scenario works out with Bighill at 75 snaps, Wilson at 70 snaps and Gauthier at 55 snaps.  So, counterintuitively, Bighill plays the most snaps even though he is the DI.

I could see a lot of teams using this approach at DE, although in the Bombers case, I don't see the Cdn DE who makes it work.  On offence, I think the two-man platooning between Janarion Grant and Wolitarsky is most likely, although I would not expect it to get a ton of use.  Grant hasn't established himself as an effective downfield receiver, and since the Bombers tend to use their DIs on defence, I don't see them adding another one to the offensive side. 

I could be wrong though....

You have a lot of theories including that you could be wrong. Hence the discussion.

The idea of platooning the MLB and WIL position is somewhat interesting since we did that a lot in 2022. Although that was due to Wilson's injury for part of the reason.

Bighill is probably in the top 3 SMS's on our defence. Where to draw a line between needing to give him a rest or doing in order to platoon is a different conversation.

Gauthier played better in 2022 than I thought him capable. Briggs did the same in 2021 at WIL. Realistically I don't see us intending to rotate more at MLB or WIL as you've outlined.

Keep in mind those are in game situations but don't necessarily resolve a longer term injury at MLB or WIL in the example used. In your example for these roster spots someone like D. Lacey sitting on the PR or 1 game IR is a resolution in " theory ". Can we sign him for that role at an SMS we can afford? Probably not but it's the kind of situation I see needed to address. The longer term replacement for any position needs to be on the roster and able to practice with the team.

You don't bring a player in on Thursday and start him on Saturday / Sunday. He has to be into game condition and practice etc. I've suggested several players that could have fit the bill for both a DI and a Nationalized player. It's not unusual for the Bombers to have a DE or DT as a DI. Lemon or Coleman fit both criteria. The fly in the ointment is SMS hit and willingness of those players to accept that role.

The league does need to clarify this more. Regardless it's an interesting conversation about how we think this will work and why.