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Author Topic: Tampering window week  (Read 2198 times)
blue_or_die
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2023, 05:54:01 PM »

I don't remember Walters ever retaining a DT. When it's time for them to receive a raise, they move on.

Nevus, Stove?

Look for next man up. Just not an area Walters values and believes cheaper plugs are fine.

I?m sure that would change if we found the next Doug Brown of Ted Laurent in the draft, but so far nada.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2023, 07:25:02 PM »

Curious if anyone knows the status of Steve Richardson. Is he a free agent? Should the Bombers go after him if they lose Sayles?

I believe he's going into the 2nd year of his deal with the Lions, he spent the entire 1st year on the I.R..  For the amount of time Stove has been injured he just isn't worth his asking price.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2023, 08:04:33 PM »

I don't remember Walters ever retaining a DT. When it's time for them to receive a raise, they move on.

The longest service Bomber is a DT.  One of the most popular Bombers ever was a DT...

Did you mean retaining an American DT?  I'd agree there, but not because they aren't worth retaining, but because they are easily replaceable, and we are spening most of our DL money on DE's...
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2023, 09:31:54 PM »

The longest service Bomber is a DT.  One of the most popular Bombers ever was a DT...

Did you mean retaining an American DT?  I'd agree there, but not because they aren't worth retaining, but because they are easily replaceable, and we are spening most of our DL money on DE's...

Doug Brown was not a Walters find, and Jake is a rotational player who probably gets an annual $20 raise.
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Jesse
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« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2023, 10:08:55 PM »

The longest service Bomber is a DT.  One of the most popular Bombers ever was a DT...

Did you mean retaining an American DT?  I'd agree there, but not because they aren't worth retaining, but because they are easily replaceable, and we are spening most of our DL money on DE's...

I mean signing a DT to a second contract with a significant raise. Jake was already here when Walters came aboard and probably makes the same now as he did then. If you're referring to Doug Brown, obviously he has nothing to do with Walters.

Of course, if we did find a Canadian DT who was a worth a raise (Doug Brown 2.0), I'm sure it would get done..
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kkc60
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« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2023, 02:40:22 AM »

I think Dline really needs to be worked on this offseason. Obviously losing Sayles and Adams potentially hurts. But our lack of depth showed last year too when Jeffcoat went down.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2023, 05:51:40 AM »

You guys are all right.  It would appear the DT spot is where we always go for sacrifices to beef up other spots.  We never do jack up DT salary to keep a guy.  We always bring in a fresh face, and are always developing a replacement IMP while we are fielding our best guy at the time.

But, man, we keep speeding up the pace we are going through them!!  Sayles really only had 1 year as #1, and he was ok but not Stove or Nevis.  And now we want to ditch him for a super-green guy, maybe an ELC IMP we haven't even fielded yet??  Not sure the in-house guys are going to be able to play at Sayles level, let alone Nevis level.

Nevis was the best, Stove was close when it was his turn, Sayles a bit farther back when it was his turn.  Do we take another DT downgrade yet again because we have no $$ left?  Or gamble it on lucking out with an ELC?

Our run D has been moving backwards at the exact same pace as the above departures.  Hmm, go figure.  From #1 run D to meh.  But that's ok if The Mafia thinks we can make up for it with better strength in other units.  It worked great in 2021.  So-so in 2022.

But just think what we'd be if we stumbled across a killer DT in scouting or TC or whatever.  That seems like the best we can hope for.  No way there's $$ left to FA splash a known beast.  The more I think about this topic, the more I'm grateful for Fatboi.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 06:04:46 AM by TecnoGenius » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2023, 06:23:12 AM »

You guys are all right.  It would appear the DT spot is where we always go for sacrifices to beef up other spots.  We never do jack up DT salary to keep a guy.  We always bring in a fresh face, and are always developing a replacement IMP while we are fielding our best guy at the time.

But, man, we keep speeding up the pace we are going through them!!  Sayles really only had 1 year as #1, and he was ok but not Stove or Nevis.  And now we want to ditch him for a super-green guy, maybe an ELC IMP we haven't even fielded yet??  Not sure the in-house guys are going to be able to play at Sayles level, let alone Nevis level.

Nevis was the best, Stove was close when it was his turn, Sayles a bit farther back when it was his turn.  Do we take another DT downgrade yet again because we have no $$ left?  Or gamble it on lucking out with an ELC?

Our run D has been moving backwards at the exact same pace as the above departures.  Hmm, go figure.  From #1 run D to meh.  But that's ok if The Mafia thinks we can make up for it with better strength in other units.  It worked great in 2021.  So-so in 2022.

But just think what we'd be if we stumbled across a killer DT in scouting or TC or whatever.  That seems like the best we can hope for.  No way there's $$ left to FA splash a known beast.  The more I think about this topic, the more I'm grateful for Fatboi.


As logic dictates and as Kyle Walters has stated on many occasions, we cannot keep everyone who had a place on the 2022 roster.  Walters must be aware of the abilities of Sayles, his real value to the team and what may be out there - affordable - in free agency, the draft and potential trades.  If we are going to lose a few players in free agency - again inevitable - Sales, albeit with some talent, would be one I would sacrifice to free agency, IMHO.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2023, 09:00:22 AM »

If we are going to lose a few players in free agency - again inevitable - Sales, albeit with some talent, would be one I would sacrifice to free agency, IMHO.

Oh, 100% you're right, yes you do sacrifice Sayles to $200k.  But that means we have a legit chance of having even worse run D in 2023 because we're rolling with unknown quantities.  It's fine and a decent place to gamble, but we all can't act surprised if/when run D suffers all year: we've chosen this path.

Now here's the real lesson: don't hire guys named Sayles, because they hang around 2 years and then toddle off to big paydays at our rivals!   Cheesy Cheesy Grin
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2023, 04:53:53 PM »

Oh, 100% you're right, yes you do sacrifice Sayles to $200k.  But that means we have a legit chance of having even worse run D in 2023 because we're rolling with unknown quantities.  It's fine and a decent place to gamble, but we all can't act surprised if/when run D suffers all year: we've chosen this path.

Now here's the real lesson: don't hire guys named Sayles, because they hang around 2 years and then toddle off to big paydays at our rivals!   Cheesy Cheesy Grin

Yes. We should expect that our performances in certain areas will change year to year as we're forced to make sacrifices due to our own successes.

If our DL looks not great but we're having 15-3 seasons, we have no choice but to be happy.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2023, 05:11:55 PM »

Oh, 100% you're right, yes you do sacrifice Sayles to $200k.  But that means we have a legit chance of having even worse run D in 2023 because we're rolling with unknown quantities.  It's fine and a decent place to gamble, but we all can't act surprised if/when run D suffers all year: we've chosen this path.

It has less to do with Sayles and more to do with the approach the Bombers have taken with the position under Walters in recent history. Specifically, import defensive tackle just isn't a place we've decided to invest heavily in. Run defense should not suffer and just because we lose Sayles does not give them a pass. Our defense only accounts for 1 national player usually. The unit has talent and big contracts at DE, MLB, Safety and possibly Corner. Our scouts need to find someone who can fill holes and but be athletic enough to collapse the interior of the pocket at times. Every team has question marks. This is one of ours but it hasn't doomed our run defense. There are also adjustments that can be made scheme wise if necessary. Plenty of teams have been good against the run without an all star DT.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 05:18:34 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2023, 06:14:23 PM »

It has less to do with Sayles and more to do with the approach the Bombers have taken with the position under Walters in recent history. Specifically, import defensive tackle just isn't a place we've decided to invest heavily in. Run defense should not suffer and just because we lose Sayles does not give them a pass. Our defense only accounts for 1 national player usually. The unit has talent and big contracts at DE, MLB, Safety and possibly Corner. Our scouts need to find someone who can fill holes and but be athletic enough to collapse the interior of the pocket at times. Every team has question marks. This is one of ours but it hasn't doomed our run defense. There are also adjustments that can be made scheme wise if necessary. Plenty of teams have been good against the run without an all star DT.

Yah but the pressure the D-line has maintained has been one of the keys to the past 4 years of success, can't let that slip away as that pressure has made the secondary and linebackers look like all-stars in coverage every season.  Without it holes start to appear in Hall's defence, ie: recent Grey Cup game.

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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2023, 08:21:32 PM »

Yah but the pressure the D-line has maintained has been one of the keys to the past 4 years of success, can't let that slip away as that pressure has made the secondary and linebackers look like all-stars in coverage every season.  Without it holes start to appear in Hall's defence, ie: recent Grey Cup game.



So, I agree -- I would say that Hall's defense looks best when he can get pressure with the front four. However, that would be true ofanyand every defense. It's also unrealistic to demand that your front four overwhelm the opposition to that extent every week and for a full season or seasons. Hall is already afforded the luxury of being able to work with an almost entirely American line-up. There are also plenty of ways he can scheme pressure. When our defense was at our most dominant, he could, if we wanted to, just let the line go to work and play his man-only-deep scheme which is a cover 4 that turns into man when someone goes deep. The downside to this is that underneath zones can be vulnerable especially if plays are extended. It's not an issue when the pass rush gets home quick but it does start to get tiring when it doesn't. With Jefferson being slightly less good last year and Jeffcoat mostly MIA he had to throw more wrinkles in more often (which ultimately makes things riskier) and he will again if those two don't return to being one man wrecking crews.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2023, 08:45:56 PM »

So, I agree -- I would say that Hall's defense looks best when he can get pressure with the front four. However, that would be true ofanyand every defense. It's also unrealistic to demand that your front four overwhelm the opposition to that extent every week and for a full season or seasons. Hall is already afforded the luxury of being able to work with an almost entirely American line-up. There are also plenty of ways he can scheme pressure. When our defense was at our most dominant, he could, if we wanted to, just let the line go to work and play his man-only-deep scheme which is a cover 4 that turns into man when someone goes deep. The downside to this is that underneath zones can be vulnerable especially if plays are extended. It's not an issue when the pass rush gets home quick but it does start to get tiring when it doesn't. With Jefferson being slightly less good last year and Jeffcoat mostly MIA he had to throw more wrinkles in more often (which ultimately makes things riskier) and he will again if those two don't return to being one man wrecking crews.

The reason the two Jeff's were not as effective last season is because they lacked support in rotation, it wasn't due to reduced effort on their part.  Kongbo and Hansen were absent, they tried to replace their contributions with Sayles and a host of ineffective DE's.
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Pete
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« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2023, 09:02:11 PM »

Richardson is signed for one more year with BC , don't know how his recovery has gone however
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