Tampering window week

[Blue In BC]

Do they report in the media any offers made to players from other teams? Perhaps not the amounts offered publicly but a teams interest in certain players.

I can imagine we may have some interests in a couple of receivers or DL if they reach free agency.

All of this depends on whether we can or choose to re-sign our own potential free agents.

Lots of players being signed today across the CFL. About 150 potential free agents left.

Money is being spent. Those that wait may be in for a rude surprise over the next week.

[Jesse]

Some leak, others don't.

Haven't seen anything yet come through.

[TecnoGenius]

Do they report in the media any offers made to players from other teams? Perhaps not the amounts offered publicly but a teams interest in certain players.

I can imagine we may have some interests in a couple of receivers or DL if they reach free agency.

Pegged it... more than you could have known!

So what is the news, if any, of teams "tampering" with our guys??

Does anyone know the status of Hansen?  Is he still locked in?

[theaardvark]

Pegged it... more than you could have known!

So what is the news, if any, of teams "tampering" with our guys??

Does anyone know the status of Hansen?  Is he still locked in?

Hansen is under contract, one that pays him well this year, the reason he came back last year...

[Jesse]

Pegged it... more than you could have known!

So what is the news, if any, of teams "tampering" with our guys??

Does anyone know the status of Hansen?  Is he still locked in?

Hamilton rumoured to be after Sayles,

Sask wants Couture.

[Stretch]

Sask wants Couture.

What? No more Dan Clark stories before every Rider snap?

[Pigskin]

Don't like losing Sayles. He has been very good for us. What's the Bombers backup plan if we lose him?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Don't like losing Sayles. He has been very good for us. What's the Bombers backup plan if we lose him?

I wonder what Walters offered Sayles, or if they made him an offer at all?  Ricky Walker is still on the roster but hasn't looked good enough to be Sayles replacement, maybe Walters has a surprise in store.

[Blue In BC]

Don't like losing Sayles. He has been very good for us. What's the Bombers backup plan if we lose him?

Good question but it's still possible we get him back. Plan B is anybodies guess. I count 22 DL still on the potential free agent list. Whether we've made offers to any IDK. If we lose Sayles in the next week we'll be active looking at another player I suppose.

Hamilton may have set the bar for Sayles but we don't know how much more that is than the Bombers thoughts.

[kkc60]

If we let Sayles go then either Keion Adams needs to come back or we need an actual #3 DE. Sayles took a good bit of snaps at end when Jeffcoat was out, especially after we dropped Mack and traded Wilcots.

[the paw]

I wonder what Walters offered Sayles, or if they made him an offer at all?  Ricky Walker is still on the roster but hasn't looked good enough to be Sayles replacement, maybe Walters has a surprise in store.

I think Ricky Walker has looked fine in light rotation.  His numbers are okay.  I think Sayles started off the same way behind Stove.

They may also want to increase Lawsons reps, and we have that Canadian draft pick who is an absolute load.

[Pigskin]

I think Ricky Walker has looked fine in light rotation.  His numbers are okay.  I think Sayles started off the same way behind Stove.

They may also want to increase Lawsons reps, and we have that Canadian draft pick who is an absolute load.

6'5" 300lb. Cole Adamson.

[Jesse]

Don't like losing Sayles. He has been very good for us. What's the Bombers backup plan if we lose him?

I don't remember Walters ever retaining a DT. When it's time for them to receive a raise, they move on.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

6'5" 300lb. Cole Adamson.

Remember Tyson Pencer?  6'-7" 300 lbs, never amounted to anything.  Rupert Butcher 6'-5" 320 lbs.? Looked good in one TC, but didn't stick. Hard to predict what these big guys can do until they're thrown into the fire, some big men are just not athletic enough to compete against other big men.

[bwiser]

Curious if anyone knows the status of Steve Richardson. Is he a free agent? Should the Bombers go after him if they lose Sayles?

[blue_or_die]

I don't remember Walters ever retaining a DT. When it's time for them to receive a raise, they move on.

Nevus, Stove?

Look for next man up. Just not an area Walters values and believes cheaper plugs are fine.

I?m sure that would change if we found the next Doug Brown of Ted Laurent in the draft, but so far nada.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Curious if anyone knows the status of Steve Richardson. Is he a free agent? Should the Bombers go after him if they lose Sayles?

I believe he's going into the 2nd year of his deal with the Lions, he spent the entire 1st year on the I.R..  For the amount of time Stove has been injured he just isn't worth his asking price.

[theaardvark]

I don't remember Walters ever retaining a DT. When it's time for them to receive a raise, they move on.

The longest service Bomber is a DT.  One of the most popular Bombers ever was a DT...

Did you mean retaining an American DT?  I'd agree there, but not because they aren't worth retaining, but because they are easily replaceable, and we are spening most of our DL money on DE's...

[blue_or_die]

The longest service Bomber is a DT.  One of the most popular Bombers ever was a DT...

Did you mean retaining an American DT?  I'd agree there, but not because they aren't worth retaining, but because they are easily replaceable, and we are spening most of our DL money on DE's...

Doug Brown was not a Walters find, and Jake is a rotational player who probably gets an annual $20 raise.

[Jesse]

The longest service Bomber is a DT.  One of the most popular Bombers ever was a DT...

Did you mean retaining an American DT?  I'd agree there, but not because they aren't worth retaining, but because they are easily replaceable, and we are spening most of our DL money on DE's...

I mean signing a DT to a second contract with a significant raise. Jake was already here when Walters came aboard and probably makes the same now as he did then. If you're referring to Doug Brown, obviously he has nothing to do with Walters.

Of course, if we did find a Canadian DT who was a worth a raise (Doug Brown 2.0), I'm sure it would get done..

[kkc60]

I think Dline really needs to be worked on this offseason. Obviously losing Sayles and Adams potentially hurts. But our lack of depth showed last year too when Jeffcoat went down.

[TecnoGenius]

You guys are all right.  It would appear the DT spot is where we always go for sacrifices to beef up other spots.  We never do jack up DT salary to keep a guy.  We always bring in a fresh face, and are always developing a replacement IMP while we are fielding our best guy at the time.

But, man, we keep speeding up the pace we are going through them!!  Sayles really only had 1 year as #1, and he was ok but not Stove or Nevis.  And now we want to ditch him for a super-green guy, maybe an ELC IMP we haven't even fielded yet??  Not sure the in-house guys are going to be able to play at Sayles level, let alone Nevis level.

Nevis was the best, Stove was close when it was his turn, Sayles a bit farther back when it was his turn.  Do we take another DT downgrade yet again because we have no $$ left?  Or gamble it on lucking out with an ELC?

Our run D has been moving backwards at the exact same pace as the above departures.  Hmm, go figure.  From #1 run D to meh.  But that's ok if The Mafia thinks we can make up for it with better strength in other units.  It worked great in 2021.  So-so in 2022.

But just think what we'd be if we stumbled across a killer DT in scouting or TC or whatever.  That seems like the best we can hope for.  No way there's $$ left to FA splash a known beast.  The more I think about this topic, the more I'm grateful for Fatboi.

[ModAdmin]

You guys are all right.  It would appear the DT spot is where we always go for sacrifices to beef up other spots.  We never do jack up DT salary to keep a guy.  We always bring in a fresh face, and are always developing a replacement IMP while we are fielding our best guy at the time.

But, man, we keep speeding up the pace we are going through them!!  Sayles really only had 1 year as #1, and he was ok but not Stove or Nevis.  And now we want to ditch him for a super-green guy, maybe an ELC IMP we haven't even fielded yet??  Not sure the in-house guys are going to be able to play at Sayles level, let alone Nevis level.

Nevis was the best, Stove was close when it was his turn, Sayles a bit farther back when it was his turn.  Do we take another DT downgrade yet again because we have no $$ left?  Or gamble it on lucking out with an ELC?

Our run D has been moving backwards at the exact same pace as the above departures.  Hmm, go figure.  From #1 run D to meh.  But that's ok if The Mafia thinks we can make up for it with better strength in other units.  It worked great in 2021.  So-so in 2022.

But just think what we'd be if we stumbled across a killer DT in scouting or TC or whatever.  That seems like the best we can hope for.  No way there's $$ left to FA splash a known beast.  The more I think about this topic, the more I'm grateful for Fatboi.

As logic dictates and as Kyle Walters has stated on many occasions, we cannot keep everyone who had a place on the 2022 roster.  Walters must be aware of the abilities of Sayles, his real value to the team and what may be out there - affordable - in free agency, the draft and potential trades.  If we are going to lose a few players in free agency - again inevitable - Sales, albeit with some talent, would be one I would sacrifice to free agency, IMHO.

[TecnoGenius]

If we are going to lose a few players in free agency - again inevitable - Sales, albeit with some talent, would be one I would sacrifice to free agency, IMHO.

Oh, 100% you're right, yes you do sacrifice Sayles to $200k.  But that means we have a legit chance of having even worse run D in 2023 because we're rolling with unknown quantities.  It's fine and a decent place to gamble, but we all can't act surprised if/when run D suffers all year: we've chosen this path.

Now here's the real lesson: don't hire guys named Sayles, because they hang around 2 years and then toddle off to big paydays at our rivals!   

[blue_or_die]

Oh, 100% you're right, yes you do sacrifice Sayles to $200k.  But that means we have a legit chance of having even worse run D in 2023 because we're rolling with unknown quantities.  It's fine and a decent place to gamble, but we all can't act surprised if/when run D suffers all year: we've chosen this path.

Now here's the real lesson: don't hire guys named Sayles, because they hang around 2 years and then toddle off to big paydays at our rivals!   

Yes. We should expect that our performances in certain areas will change year to year as we're forced to make sacrifices due to our own successes.

If our DL looks not great but we're having 15-3 seasons, we have no choice but to be happy.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Oh, 100% you're right, yes you do sacrifice Sayles to $200k.  But that means we have a legit chance of having even worse run D in 2023 because we're rolling with unknown quantities.  It's fine and a decent place to gamble, but we all can't act surprised if/when run D suffers all year: we've chosen this path.

It has less to do with Sayles and more to do with the approach the Bombers have taken with the position under Walters in recent history. Specifically, import defensive tackle just isn't a place we've decided to invest heavily in. Run defense should not suffer and just because we lose Sayles does not give them a pass. Our defense only accounts for 1 national player usually. The unit has talent and big contracts at DE, MLB, Safety and possibly Corner. Our scouts need to find someone who can fill holes and but be athletic enough to collapse the interior of the pocket at times. Every team has question marks. This is one of ours but it hasn't doomed our run defense. There are also adjustments that can be made scheme wise if necessary. Plenty of teams have been good against the run without an all star DT.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

It has less to do with Sayles and more to do with the approach the Bombers have taken with the position under Walters in recent history. Specifically, import defensive tackle just isn't a place we've decided to invest heavily in. Run defense should not suffer and just because we lose Sayles does not give them a pass. Our defense only accounts for 1 national player usually. The unit has talent and big contracts at DE, MLB, Safety and possibly Corner. Our scouts need to find someone who can fill holes and but be athletic enough to collapse the interior of the pocket at times. Every team has question marks. This is one of ours but it hasn't doomed our run defense. There are also adjustments that can be made scheme wise if necessary. Plenty of teams have been good against the run without an all star DT.

Yah but the pressure the D-line has maintained has been one of the keys to the past 4 years of success, can't let that slip away as that pressure has made the secondary and linebackers look like all-stars in coverage every season.  Without it holes start to appear in Hall's defence, ie: recent Grey Cup game.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Yah but the pressure the D-line has maintained has been one of the keys to the past 4 years of success, can't let that slip away as that pressure has made the secondary and linebackers look like all-stars in coverage every season.  Without it holes start to appear in Hall's defence, ie: recent Grey Cup game.

So, I agree -- I would say that Hall's defense looks best when he can get pressure with the front four. However, that would be true ofanyand every defense. It's also unrealistic to demand that your front four overwhelm the opposition to that extent every week and for a full season or seasons. Hall is already afforded the luxury of being able to work with an almost entirely American line-up. There are also plenty of ways he can scheme pressure. When our defense was at our most dominant, he could, if we wanted to, just let the line go to work and play his man-only-deep scheme which is a cover 4 that turns into man when someone goes deep. The downside to this is that underneath zones can be vulnerable especially if plays are extended. It's not an issue when the pass rush gets home quick but it does start to get tiring when it doesn't. With Jefferson being slightly less good last year and Jeffcoat mostly MIA he had to throw more wrinkles in more often (which ultimately makes things riskier) and he will again if those two don't return to being one man wrecking crews.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

So, I agree -- I would say that Hall's defense looks best when he can get pressure with the front four. However, that would be true ofanyand every defense. It's also unrealistic to demand that your front four overwhelm the opposition to that extent every week and for a full season or seasons. Hall is already afforded the luxury of being able to work with an almost entirely American line-up. There are also plenty of ways he can scheme pressure. When our defense was at our most dominant, he could, if we wanted to, just let the line go to work and play his man-only-deep scheme which is a cover 4 that turns into man when someone goes deep. The downside to this is that underneath zones can be vulnerable especially if plays are extended. It's not an issue when the pass rush gets home quick but it does start to get tiring when it doesn't. With Jefferson being slightly less good last year and Jeffcoat mostly MIA he had to throw more wrinkles in more often (which ultimately makes things riskier) and he will again if those two don't return to being one man wrecking crews.

The reason the two Jeff's were not as effective last season is because they lacked support in rotation, it wasn't due to reduced effort on their part.  Kongbo and Hansen were absent, they tried to replace their contributions with Sayles and a host of ineffective DE's.

[Pete]

Richardson is signed for one more year with BC , don't know how his recovery has gone however

[Sir Blue and Gold]

The reason the two Jeff's were not as effective last season is because they lacked support in rotation, it wasn't due to reduced effort on their part.  Kongbo and Hansen were absent, they tried to replace their contributions with Sayles and a host of ineffective DE's.

Probably a contributing factor for sure (although I don't think Sayles was ever a a 1:1 rotation with either). However, CFL rosters are small and Jefferson and Jeffcoat are substantial SMS hits. Jeffcoat needs to be heathy and they both need to be great or they need to be cheaper to allow for the dollars necessary to provide a better rotational DE.

[theaardvark]

Getting a stud interior Dlineman has never been a real problem in the CFL.  Sure, there are guys that have made a long and lucrative career at the position, but there seems to be a much easier time to find one and get him up to CFL spped on an ELC.

I'm not worried about recruiting the next Stove/Sayles.. there will be a guy in camp this year that will make us happy we saved $140k to pay Lawler with.

[Blue In BC]

Getting a stud interior Dlineman has never been a real problem in the CFL.  Sure, there are guys that have made a long and lucrative career at the position, but there seems to be a much easier time to find one and get him up to CFL spped on an ELC.

I'm not worried about recruiting the next Stove/Sayles.. there will be a guy in camp this year that will make us happy we saved $140k to pay Lawler with.

Then why did the Lions sign Richardson for $200K and this year we see Sayles sign for $200K?

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Then why did the Lions sign Richardson for $200K and this year we see Sayles sign for $200K?

Because neither of those teams are paying their QB $600,000? We could have ol' Bo or Adams and Sayles if you want?

[Blue In BC]

Because neither of those teams are paying their QB $600,000? We could have ol' Bo or Adams and Sayles if you want?

That's irrelevant and out of context. The comment was about DT's being easy to find or replace. You can spend money on other positions that are more difficult to replace. OL or receivers for example.

I only partially agree that good DT's are easy to find as rookies. Bombers previously used free agency to acquire players like Nevis to fill what scouting didn't find.

[theaardvark]

Then why did the Lions sign Richardson for $200K and this year we see Sayles sign for $200K?

The question is how did we find Stove when we lost Nevis to more money, and Sayles when we lost Stove to more money...

[TecnoGenius]

The question is how did we find Stove when we lost Nevis to more money, and Sayles when we lost Stove to more money...

By having the padawan 1 year behind the master every time... It was a perfect, steady replacement algorithm.

If this is our 4th year of doing that then Walker slides in as that guy.  Lawson backs Fatboi.

It would be out of character for us to bring in a raw IMP ELC or make a FA spash to fill the IMP DT spot.  But, it would make perfect sense for us to ELC-fill the lady-in-waiting role who will be promoted next year.   

Maybe more important to all of this is we need the cheetah set back as an option.  Healthy Hansen gets us mostly there, but we're missing a 4th to replace Kongbo.  We can make it a DI by putting Gauthier or Briggs or Hallett on for that set.  That said, cheetah wouldn't have helped win us that GC....

[Sir Blue and Gold]

That's irrelevant and out of context. The comment was about DT's being easy to find or replace. You can spend money on other positions that are more difficult to replace. OL or receivers for example.

I only partially agree that good DT's are easy to find as rookies. Bombers previously used free agency to acquire players like Nevis to fill what scouting didn't find.

Gotcha. In that case I agree. It's not easy to find starters at any position. You pay a free agency premium for already developed CFL ready starters who you can plug and paly. Sayles is that. We have had a lot of success with the position though so it could be a good thing if we hit another home run. My guess is the Bombers plan to run that position on an ELC so focus on scouting that position perhaps more intently than some others.

[Blue In BC]

By having the padawan 1 year behind the master every time... It was a perfect, steady replacement algorithm.

If this is our 4th year of doing that then Walker slides in as that guy.  Lawson backs Fatboi.

It would be out of character for us to bring in a raw IMP ELC or make a FA spash to fill the IMP DT spot.  But, it would make perfect sense for us to ELC-fill the lady-in-waiting role who will be promoted next year.   

Maybe more important to all of this is we need the cheetah set back as an option.  Healthy Hansen gets us mostly there, but we're missing a 4th to replace Kongbo.  We can make it a DI by putting Gauthier or Briggs or Hallett on for that set.  That said, cheetah wouldn't have helped win us that GC....

The question is how well would Walker do versus Sayles if he becomes the starter. Keeping in mind that in previous years we had hold overs that were DI's the previous season. That is not what we have this year. We do have more Canadian depth with Lawson but we also had lost Kongbo.

Getting Hansen back will be good in rotation. Walker may rise to the task and we may see more rotation with the Canadians with Adamson and Lawson?

The remaining potential DL are being scooped up so I don't know that the Bombers will land one in free agency. The scouts will have work to do in recruitment. On a positive note, they don't have a bunch of positions that in serious need for starters.

Team has retained the core of the team.

[theaardvark]

Development at each position varies... Oline need time to gel, Rec/DB need time to adapt to the waggle, etc..

Dline, especially DT's probably have the least to adapt to.  Their textbook is chaos.  One yard off the line is all they need to adapt to, and that might actually be in their favour.  Finding a DT with a motor and hands is not a huge ask.  They don't even have to be huge, remember the Brown/Heywood combo.  Never a funnier DT tandem.  So, finding enough American DT's to come in and fight for an ELC job starting on our team shouldn't be hard. 

Add in the fact that last 3 starters here signed big contracts after their stint on the Bombers, well, the sell job to come here just got even easier.

[Blue In BC]

Development at each position varies... Oline need time to gel, Rec/DB need time to adapt to the waggle, etc..

Dline, especially DT's probably have the least to adapt to.  Their textbook is chaos.  One yard off the line is all they need to adapt to, and that might actually be in their favour.  Finding a DT with a motor and hands is not a huge ask.  They don't even have to be huge, remember the Brown/Heywood combo.  Never a funnier DT tandem.  So, finding enough American DT's to come in and fight for an ELC job starting on our team shouldn't be hard. 

Add in the fact that last 3 starters here signed big contracts after their stint on the Bombers, well, the sell job to come here just got even easier.

If you're counting Nevis, he was not brought to the CFL by the Bombers. He played 26 games over 5 seasons in the NFL then joined Hamilton 1 year before joining the Bombers.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

If you're counting Nevis, he was not brought to the CFL by the Bombers. He played 26 games over 5 seasons in the NFL then joined Hamilton 1 year before joining the Bombers.

He was a wrecking ball in Hamilton, I was totally amazed when Walters acquired him.

[theaardvark]

If you're counting Nevis, he was not brought to the CFL by the Bombers. He played 26 games over 5 seasons in the NFL then joined Hamilton 1 year before joining the Bombers.

Again, developing vs. discovering.  Sure, Nevis was a an NFL player and a Ticat for 2 years, played one year in Hamilton after he missed his first year to injury, and we scooped him up for 2 years as a FA, and extended him another.  We didn't "discover" him, but we identified him and signed him.  Walters identified a need, and filled it, at what I assume was a price that fit his budget.  He had one good year in Hamilton, but Walters took him away.

And when he got too expensive, we found someone to replace him, just as he replaced Euclid Cummings before him...

DT has been a position we have not struggled to fill.  I'm not worried about our scouts finding bodies to stuff the run game.  Whether it is current CFL rostered players, NFL PR guys, green NCAA recruits or even NAT Draft choices, we will find the players we need.  I have no issues with going 2 Nats at DT, just like filling the Oline with NATs in the middle.  If the right guy is there for our first pick, added to the NAT beef we already have in the middle, it could be a quite the boon for our ratio...  5 NAT linemen (3 O, 2 D), with BO20, ND10, DW82... that's a great ratio...