CFL / XFL

Started by theaardvark, December 05, 2022, 04:13:51 PM

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theaardvark

Saw a tweet, and it got me thinking.

Are we looking at the Rock/CFL "negotiations" all wrong?

We are ALL worried about going to 4 downs, etc...

What if the Rock is actually smarter than we thing, and looking at the exact opposite.

What if the Rock wants to invest in a superior game, to differentiate from the USFL, semi-pro, etc... and want to embrace the real football rules.  3 downs, big field, no fair catch, and yes, the Rouge.

The XFL sporting CFL rules would be a huge benefit for both. 

There are plenty of players and coaches that are already familiar, and opening that pipeline would be great.

It is an exciting league, and selling the US on it's little differences (and big ones) might be a little bit of a get, but can you imagine "The Rock" doing multiple "These are the rules" videos... one or two minute snippets, with his characteristic humour and big personality delivery, explaining the reason for the rule, and how teams take advantage of it.

Dwayne Johnson talking about "The Rouge" or "The Waggle" or the "Deeper End Zone" at the start of each XFL broadcast would be golden.

Can you fit a CFL field in a US stadium?  One sideline might do it... like all eastern CFL teams do.  I'd think most college stadia built to house a soccer pitch could fit a CFL field.

I hated the idea of a CFL/XFL "co-operation"

But this, this makes sense, for everyone.

Gives the XFL excitement and differentiates it in a good way, if done correctly.  And "The Rock" could pull this off, big time.

If this was the plan all along, hat tip to Ambrosie.  If not, then Ambrosie needs to get the Rock on the phone pronto.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

ModAdmin

Quote from: theaardvark on December 05, 2022, 04:13:51 PM
Saw a tweet, and it got me thinking.

Are we looking at the Rock/CFL "negotiations" all wrong?

We are ALL worried about going to 4 downs, etc...

What if the Rock is actually smarter than we thing, and looking at the exact opposite.

What if the Rock wants to invest in a superior game, to differentiate from the USFL, semi-pro, etc... and want to embrace the real football rules.  3 downs, big field, no fair catch, and yes, the Rouge.

The XFL sporting CFL rules would be a huge benefit for both. 

There are plenty of players and coaches that are already familiar, and opening that pipeline would be great.

It is an exciting league, and selling the US on it's little differences (and big ones) might be a little bit of a get, but can you imagine "The Rock" doing multiple "These are the rules" videos... one or two minute snippets, with his characteristic humour and big personality delivery, explaining the reason for the rule, and how teams take advantage of it.

Dwayne Johnson talking about "The Rouge" or "The Waggle" or the "Deeper End Zone" at the start of each XFL broadcast would be golden.

Can you fit a CFL field in a US stadium?  One sideline might do it... like all eastern CFL teams do.  I'd think most college stadia built to house a soccer pitch could fit a CFL field.

I hated the idea of a CFL/XFL "co-operation"

But this, this makes sense, for everyone.

Gives the XFL excitement and differentiates it in a good way, if done correctly.  And "The Rock" could pull this off, big time.

If this was the plan all along, hat tip to Ambrosie.  If not, then Ambrosie needs to get the Rock on the phone pronto.

From our (Canadian) perspective what you speculate may have some truth and validity but remember the XFL, first and foremost, is catering to a US audience that embraces "American" football.  They also believe they produce the best game on the market.  What you suggest may be a tough sell down south.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden

theaardvark

Quote from: ModAdmin on December 05, 2022, 05:06:46 PM
From our (Canadian) perspective what you speculate may have some truth and validity but remember the XFL, first and foremost, is catering to a US audience that embraces "American" football.  They also believe they produce the best game on the market.  What you suggest may be a tough sell down south.

It wold have to be marketed correctly, not as "Canadian Football", but rather as "3 down football".

Each new league bring in changes to "make the game better" and try to attract eyeballs.  Done right, using 3 down rules that have been proven over 100 years to be awesome, could help a fledgling league get up to speed.

Not sure what the GC numbers were for the US, but they can't be worse than the USFL's championship game.  There is a fan base for 3 down ball, and with the Rock touting its features, just saying that it sounds like a win / win...
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Sir Blue and Gold

Every single "pro" startup league has failed in the US. If you go with a Canadian version of the game and try to sell that football purists in the southern states it's going to fail faster than new coke. I would venture that the only thing to make this new XFL a worse idea is by aligning it with the CFL or CFL rules. Yikes.

theaardvark

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on December 05, 2022, 05:23:28 PM
Every single "pro" startup league has failed in the US. If you go with a Canadian version of the game and try to sell that football purists in the southern states it's going to fail faster than new coke. I would venture that the only thing to make this new XFL a worse idea is by aligning it with the CFL or CFL rules. Yikes.

Again, the last thing you'd want to market it as is "CFL rules"

The last thing you want is "CFL South"

You market is as American Football, but a faster game, with 3 downs to encourage more passing, more special teams play, etc.. etc... you can't reference CFL except in passing. 

And by your argument, if every startup league has failed using the NFL rule structure, aren't you setting yourself up for a repeat by doing the same thing?  Whereas changing things up might give you a chance.

Showing 200 million Americans the game run under slightly different rules that make it a significantly more watchable product sounds like a better opportunity to succeed...



Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Sir Blue and Gold

Quote from: theaardvark on December 05, 2022, 05:36:52 PM
Again, the last thing you'd want to market it as is "CFL rules"

The last thing you want is "CFL South"

You market is as American Football, but a faster game, with 3 downs to encourage more passing, more special teams play, etc.. etc... you can't reference CFL except in passing. 

And by your argument, if every startup league has failed using the NFL rule structure, aren't you setting yourself up for a repeat by doing the same thing?  Whereas changing things up might give you a chance.

Showing 200 million Americans the game run under slightly different rules that make it a significantly more watchable product sounds like a better opportunity to succeed...





You can market it however you want, as soon as you tell everyone the XFL is going to three downs it will immediately be compared to the CFL by everybody. Good luck trying to control that narrative. How many more tens of millions would you like to lose trying to change that perception?

blue_gold_84

Quote from: theaardvark on December 05, 2022, 05:36:52 PM
Showing 200 million Americans the game run under slightly different rules that make it a significantly more watchable product sounds like a better opportunity to succeed...

More watchable to whom?
#forthew
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Blue In BC

I'll be surprised if the XFL and / or the USFL last regardless of what rules they use.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

theaardvark

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on December 05, 2022, 07:14:09 PM
More watchable to whom?

To anyone wanting to watch until the end of the game, especially the last few minutes... "Take a knee" NFL is so boring... 3 down football is such a better game...
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: theaardvark on December 05, 2022, 08:25:43 PM
To anyone wanting to watch until the end of the game, especially the last few minutes... "Take a knee" NFL is so boring... 3 down football is such a better game...

This is merely your opinion - and a very biased one at that.

The NFL is an institution in the US, second only to NCAA football, and is a very watchable product as evidenced by its immense popularity here in North America and elsewhere.
#forthew
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bluebeard

You have to remember that 99 % of the stadiums in the US will not accommodate a CFL field.  Also, the American dollar is clearly more desirable than ours as it is worth much more.  American players will flood back to American cities to play closer to home.  Not everything is peaches and cream.  TO is pushing this as they feel it is a step closer to the NFL.  Just my thoughts.

Sir Blue and Gold

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on December 05, 2022, 08:48:10 PM
This is merely your opinion - and a very biased one at that.

The NFL is an institution in the US, second only to NCAA football, and is a very watchable product as evidenced by its immense popularity here in North America and elsewhere.

No kidding. Not only is four down football an NFL thing, it is the essence of football in the country. Little League, high school, college and everything in between.

Consider the possibility of a start up pro hockey league in Canada playing with 8 on 8, ice twice as big and nets three times the size of the NHL's. And when all the Canadians asked who on earth asked for this, tell them this is how it's played in Siberia and it's very popular, in fact, its way better than the way you play in Canada.

That's basically what you'd be up against in the US with three down football. There isn't a pile of money big enough to change those perceptions fast enough.

The Fresh Prince Of Belair, MB

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on December 05, 2022, 10:48:01 PM
Consider the possibility of a start up pro hockey league in Canada playing with 8 on 8, ice twice as big and nets three times the size of the NHL's.
NGL that sounds entertaining. Might need 2 goalies at once per side with a net that big though!

theaardvark

Since every non-NFL football league in the US has failed, might need to look at why.  You need $million spectacles to attract eyes... be it the show, the players, the production...

3 down football is a better game from a viewers standpoint.  Add in that you are going to be using players that are not NFL level, you need more excitement to make the games attractive.

Roughly 20% more plays per game, far more explosion plays, more ST play (and no fair catch) and far better game ending scenarios (no 4 downs of take a knee with over 2 minutes to play), and a far better overtime...  the rules just make for a better game experience.

If the XFL has no NFL ties, why play the boring NFL game, and die like every incarnation of a non-NFL league.  Why not model after a successful model, far closer to your operating parameters (budgetwise, talentwise) that has survived 100+ years?

Let the USFL be the NFL wannabe, and try something new.

Especially when you have a dynamic guy like The Rock in charge, who can market the heck out of the more exciting game, and take advantage of his roots in the game.

As to a hockey league with 8 players... no.  Europe has a bigger ice surface, and it is popular.  Adding 1 player in that scenario would not even be the same, going from 11 players to 12 is a lot less than going from 5 skaters to 6.   And yeah, the extra open ice is better for the skills game. 

As to 99% of *NFL* stadiums not fitting a CFL field, notice that I said College stadia.  More likely to be the XFL playing fields, (XFL could never afford to rent an NFL field) or other facilities suited for a soccer field, which should accommodate a CFL field.  And it does not have to be exact CFL size, in fact, being slightly different might be better.  It needs to be wider, for sure, and longer end zones.  But it doesn't need a 55 yard line.  It can be 100 yard field, 60 wide and 15 yard EZ's, and still be better than an NFL field. 

Full CFL rules and field might not be the answer, but adapting most of it and the theories behind them might be the key to success where every other league has failed.

3 down ball with a waggle is darned exciting, and I think people would get to love it real quick.  And the CFL negotiating with the XFL to get them to adopt some/most of our rules, offering exchange/supply of officials, or other strategic alliances would benefit both...   

Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: theaardvark on December 06, 2022, 03:43:17 PM
Since every non-NFL football league in the US has failed, might need to look at why

But we know why. The NFL dominates the professional football landscape in the US.

The "new" XFL has to try and compete not only with that juggernaut but also the "new" USFL.
#forthew
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