The Good Bad Ugly at BC

Started by GOLDMEMBER, October 16, 2022, 05:35:34 AM

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GOLDMEMBER

Good

Schoen Demski SHEED were all dynamic
Dru minus two poor decision/accuracy plays
Parker
Lawrence
Willie wreaking havoc
Grant TD


Bad

2 pick sixes
Serious kick coverage issue wow that was real poor!
Leggio short twice wide right once ehh
C Kolankowski knicked up

Ugly

TSN Camera work, out to lunch to many times ::)
I LOSHT MY MEMBER IN AN UNFORTUNATE SHMELTING ACCSHIDENT!

gordo

#1
Is it too late to bring in a kicker?

Missing once is fine. Three times is an implosion. And this late in the season?!

Wide and short. His confidence just seems to leave him.

I thought he had worked it out but wow going into playoffs am nervous again.

We are one bad kicking game from blowing a third cup.

On the bright side, we definitely have a diamond in the rough at future QB.  Haven?t seen a guy that could scramble and throw on the run across his body so well for a long time. Great fit for the CFL.  Bombers grooming him nicely with Zach and Buck schooling him.

dd

Quote from: gordo on October 16, 2022, 08:04:57 AM
Is it too late to bring in a kicker?

Missing once is fine. Three times is an implosion. And this late in the season?!

Wide and short. His confidence just seems to leave him.

I thought he had worked it out but wow going into playoffs am nervous again.

We are one bad kicking game from blowing a third cup.

On the bright side, we definitely have a diamond in the rough at future QB.
We are one bad kicking game away from blowing a third cup

The Zipp

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on October 16, 2022, 05:35:34 AM
Good

Schoen Demski SHEED were all dynamic
Dru minus two poor decision/accuracy plays
Parker
Lawrence
Willie wreaking havoc
Grant TD


Bad

2 pick sixes
Serious kick coverage issue wow that was real poor!
Leggio short twice wide right once ehh
C Kolankowski knicked up

Ugly

TSN Camera work, out to lunch to many times ::)


That about sums it up, too many yards given up on the ground...Darby's name didn't get mentioned once...that might be good or bad?

Enjoy the bye week then wrap it up against Rourke and the Lions at home.

3rdand1.5

The good, we were a couple turnovers away from potentially winning with back-ups

The bad, we continue to show we are vulnerable against the run, and 3 missed FG's

The ugly, our kick coverage, it's becoming a bit of a trend

Waffler

Quote from: gordo on October 16, 2022, 08:04:57 AM
Is it too late to bring in a kicker?

Missing once is fine. Three times is an implosion. And this late in the season?!


First 2 misses were outside the 50. That's an iffy kick for anyone. If anything MOs should learn not to try it again unless it's a last play scenario. It was in BC too he tried that crazy long one with Medlock who also missed by a mile.

Not sure why people still ride the kid, he's a good kicker only going to get better.
Buried in the essentially random digits of pi, you can find your eight-digit birthdate. (Is that a wink from God or just a lot of digits?) - David G. Myers
__________________________________________________
Everything seems stupid when it fails.  - Fyodor Dostoevsky

Waffler

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on October 16, 2022, 02:21:17 PM
The good, we were a couple turnovers away from potentially winning with back-ups

They beat our backups by one score and were happy about it.  Pretty sure they should not be. Rourke is their only hope now.
Buried in the essentially random digits of pi, you can find your eight-digit birthdate. (Is that a wink from God or just a lot of digits?) - David G. Myers
__________________________________________________
Everything seems stupid when it fails.  - Fyodor Dostoevsky

theaardvark

Quote from: Waffler on October 16, 2022, 02:54:18 PM
They beat our backups by one score and were happy about it.  Pretty sure they should not be. Rourke is their only hope now.

At home....
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Pigskin

Quote from: Waffler on October 16, 2022, 02:48:09 PM
First 2 misses were outside the 50. That's an iffy kick for anyone. If anything MOs should learn not to try it again unless it's a last play scenario. It was in BC too he tried that crazy long one with Medlock who also missed by a mile.

Not sure why people still ride the kid, he's a good kicker only going to get better.

Agree, he has been lights out since the Montreal game. Brown is a rising star throwing 2 pick six which resulted in 14 points and losing the game, and Leggs is a bum for missing 3 FG's, 2 from more than 50 yards. And both kicks were dead center. 
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

the paw

The Good

1.  Dru can run the offence effectively.  He made some really nice throws, including some rolling out. The mistakes were to be expected, but to go over 300 yds with some of those TD strikes, against the BC defence is a really good sign.

2.  Loved the game that Parker had.  He is definitely back next year, and will be able to compete for Nick Taylor's spot, depending on how Nick heals up.

3.  Showed great OL depth.

4.  Nice to see Bailey have a big game.

5.  Janarion Grant seems to be peaking at the right time.

6.  We have now scientifically established that 49 yards is the outer limit for a field goal in the dead air of BC place.  We should really only be attempting field goals of 50+ yards with a bit of a breeze or as a Hail Mary game ender.  

The Bad

6.  I did not think Kolankowski was particularly effective at guard.  Center is probably his "highest and best use" so the team will have to decide who they want at centre long term.  Unfortunately for Kolankowski, this injury might allow Couture to re-entrench himself at centre.  

7.  Special teams coverage was abysmal.  Cannot have another performance like that.  It's one thing to get ripped once for a bad one, that can happen.  But this was a repeated deficiency.

8. the Lions were picking on Lawrence hard, and he did not have a particularly good night.  For a late season pick up to address injuries, I think he is pretty good quality, but he will be in tough to stick next year unless he improves.  

The Ugly

9.  It was proper that BC got a roughing the passer penalty for ripping Dru's helmet off.  But Dru should have got an offsetting penalty for making us look at that butt ugly top-knot.  Seriously dude, if you want to be a starter in this league get a decent cut.  
grab grass 'n growl

TBURGESS

Brown threw 5 TD passes, 2 to the wrong team. That's what you get with a young QB.

The O line played great considering it was almost all youngsters.

Bailey played angry again & made some great catches.

Grant had a career day.

400 yards of offence & 34 minutes of TOP with a backup QB is amazing.

Leggz had a poor performance. 3 misses, 2 short.

Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.

pjrocksmb

#11
No need to hit the panic button on Leggs (again)

Good
Brown looks good minus ducks he threw
Bailey
Grant
OL

Bad
Ints

Ugly
Kicker coverage
Injury to 67
Run D

Pigskin

Quote from: the paw on October 16, 2022, 03:27:57 PM
The Good

1.  Dru can run the offence effectively.  He made some really nice throws, including some rolling out. The mistakes were to be expected, but to go over 300 yds with some of those TD strikes, against the BC defence is a really good sign.

2.  Loved the game that Parker had.  He is definitely back next year, and will be able to compete for Nick Taylor's spot, depending on how Nick heals up.

3.  Showed great OL depth.

4.  Nice to see Bailey have a big game.

5.  Janarion Grant seems to be peaking at the right time.

6.  We have now scientifically established that 49 yards is the outer limit for a field goal in the dead air of BC place.  We should really only be attempting field goals of 50+ yards with a bit of a breeze or as a Hail Mary game ender.  

The Bad

6.  I did not think Kolankowski was particularly effective at guard.  Center is probably his "highest and best use" so the team will have to decide who they want at centre long term.  Unfortunately for Kolankowski, this injury might allow Couture to re-entrench himself at centre.  

7.  Special teams coverage was abysmal.  Cannot have another performance like that.  It's one thing to get ripped once for a bad one, that can happen.  But this was a repeated deficiency.

8. the Lions were picking on Lawrence hard, and he did not have a particularly good night.  For a late season pick up to address injuries, I think he is pretty good quality, but he will be in tough to stick next year unless he improves.  

The Ugly

9.  It was proper that BC got a roughing the passer penalty for ripping Dru's helmet off.  But Dru should have got an offsetting penalty for making us look at that butt ugly top-knot.  Seriously dude, if you want to be a starter in this league get a decent cut.  

I agree Kolski was pushed around and ran over a few times at guard. However, Lofton looked pretty solid in his first start as a bomber.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Lincoln Locomotive

Quote from: Waffler on October 16, 2022, 02:48:09 PM
First 2 misses were outside the 50. That's an iffy kick for anyone. If anything MOs should learn not to try it again unless it's a last play scenario. It was in BC too he tried that crazy long one with Medlock who also missed by a mile.

Not sure why people still ride the kid, he's a good kicker only going to get better.
He also made yet another TD saving tackle on Williams being last man back.   He has bailed his cover teams at least 3 times this season....that's 21 points!   I was calling for a punt on both those missed FGs from 53.....knowing how our coverage team is struggling and with Williams back there I was surprised that MOS would put him in that position.    The other miss, well that one he usually makes so yeah he had a bad nite kicking but saved 7 points with his sure tackling skills.
Bomber fan for life

Throw Long Bannatyne

Sad to see Kona hurt but have to admit I love Couture at Center, he's a great leader who has an air of confidence about him that rubs off on the whole O-line.  Also really impressed with Eric Lofton protection at RT, he has great mobility and for all but one play he kept BC's DE's well clear of Brown.  Gray played a steady game as well, constantly downfield looking for someone to hit, I wouldn't blink if they have him pencilled in as Stanley's future replacement.

What's dreadfully funny is the Bombers have 10 O-lineman better than the Riders starting 5!

Waffler

Good: no call on the Rhymes tackle. He doesn't want to go down what is Alexander supposed to do? Say excuse me and let go?
Buried in the essentially random digits of pi, you can find your eight-digit birthdate. (Is that a wink from God or just a lot of digits?) - David G. Myers
__________________________________________________
Everything seems stupid when it fails.  - Fyodor Dostoevsky

dd

Quote from: Waffler on October 16, 2022, 04:04:27 PM
Good: no call on the Rhymes tackle. He doesn't want to go down what is Alexander supposed to do? Say excuse me and let go?
It was excessive force, and should have been called. The game has changed, player safety is more important now than in  the past

Lincoln Locomotive

Quote from: dd on October 16, 2022, 04:08:56 PM
It was excessive force, and should have been called. The game has changed, player safety is more important now than in  the past
It was borderline but I feel still within the realm of a "football play".   I remember once when Sir Charles Robert's was suplexed to the ground wrestling style and no call......funny how times have changed yet I can understand why we need to protect our players from deliberate intent to injure.    Hard tackling IS still part of the game though and both Alexander and Biggie will smack you hard when given the opportunity.    I mean, it's still football, a violent sport not badminton!
Bomber fan for life

Waffler

Quote from: dd on October 16, 2022, 04:08:56 PM
It was excessive force, and should have been called. The game has changed, player safety is more important now than in  the past

It's on the officials for not blowing it faster then. Rhymes was clearly still trying to break free.
Buried in the essentially random digits of pi, you can find your eight-digit birthdate. (Is that a wink from God or just a lot of digits?) - David G. Myers
__________________________________________________
Everything seems stupid when it fails.  - Fyodor Dostoevsky

Tiger

We could have won but for big returns, Teo pic sixes and 3 missed field goals.  Brown did down for his first start.  Over 300 yds, 72 % completion, good mobility getting away from the rush.  Sure some bad or late decisions but that changes with experience. 

The oline was not great but we have back ups in.  Brown and Buck seemed to handle that well.

Bailey had a great game.  If we get Ellingson and Woli back we will be in great shape. McCrae and Oleary Orange have done better than expected.

At the end of the day it was clear to me how much we would miss Collaros and Bryant.

Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
Bo Jackson

We are inclined to think that if we watch a football game or a baseball game, we have taken part in it
John Fitzgerald Kennedy

BC Sucks
Tiger

mondo3

Only the good:
Brown exceeded my expectations for a QB's first start. While it's only one game, he seems like a very good option as a backup if needed, or potentially as a future starter.

TBURGESS

The Alexander on Rhymes hit should have been UR. Rhymes gave up, the whistle blew, Alexander drove him head first into the turf. Would have been a great hit back in the '80s, but it's UR now. I expect the league will fine Alexander.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.

GOLDMEMBER

Quote from: TBURGESS on October 16, 2022, 06:01:03 PM
The Alexander on Rhymes hit should have been UR. Rhymes gave up, the whistle blew, Alexander drove him head first into the turf. Would have been a great hit back in the '80s, but it's UR now. I expect the league will fine Alexander.
Rhymes was struggling to escape. He did not  appear to give up.
I LOSHT MY MEMBER IN AN UNFORTUNATE SHMELTING ACCSHIDENT!

Pete

Thought our secondary was good especially Parker, but our linebackers we're weak. Clements seemed to be a few steps behind the play and I can't remember seeing Darby make a play

dd

Quote from: TBURGESS on October 16, 2022, 06:01:03 PM
The Alexander on Rhymes hit should have been UR. Rhymes gave up, the whistle blew, Alexander drove him head first into the turf. Would have been a great hit back in the '80s, but it's UR now. I expect the league will fine Alexander.
Agree 100%, and fine is coming, bank on it.

Pete

#25
Rhymes was still driving forward , Alexander was just taking him down.Short of just letting him go not sure what you wanted him to do. It's TACKLE football
It was a one on one play. If the league wants that cut down why arent they blowing it down if they feel the play is done? Then if hes put on the ground theres no question about roughing

theaardvark

Was CK67's play influenced by having JG68 on his left shoulder?

I think, all things considered, the play of the team was great.  With no one on the Oline starting in their "normal" spot, except Couture returning from injury, they did darned fine.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

dd

Quote from: Pete on October 16, 2022, 07:31:02 PM
Rhymes was still driving forward , Alexander was just taking him down.Short of just letting him go not sure what you wanted him to do. It's TACKLE football
It was a one on one play. If the league wants that cut down why arent they blowing it down if they feel the play is done? Then if hes put on the ground theres no question about roughing
They should be s
Whistling it dead once the ball carrier s forward progress has been stopped and he?s clearly in the grasp of the defender, which he was here. Whistle this play dead like it should have been and this play doesn?t happen.

TBURGESS

Quote from: dd on October 16, 2022, 09:36:54 PM
They should be s
Whistling it dead once the ball carrier s forward progress has been stopped and he?s clearly in the grasp of the defender, which he was here. Whistle this play dead like it should have been and this play doesn?t happen.
That pisses me off all the time. When the ball carrier is stopped, whistle it dead ASAP to protect the players.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Pete on October 16, 2022, 07:31:02 PM
Rhymes was still driving forward , Alexander was just taking him down.Short of just letting him go not sure what you wanted him to do. It's TACKLE football
It was a one on one play. If the league wants that cut down why arent they blowing it down if they feel the play is done? Then if hes put on the ground theres no question about roughing

Simple fix, they need to penalize that suplex move whenever it happens, can't have degrees of severity, body throws should no longer be permitted.

Tiger

Quote from: dd on October 16, 2022, 09:36:54 PM
They should be s
Whistling it dead once the ball carrier s forward progress has been stopped and he?s clearly in the grasp of the defender, which he was here. Whistle this play dead like it should have been and this play doesn?t happen.

Yup problem solved
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
Bo Jackson

We are inclined to think that if we watch a football game or a baseball game, we have taken part in it
John Fitzgerald Kennedy

BC Sucks
Tiger

dd

Quote from: TBURGESS on October 16, 2022, 09:41:03 PM
That pisses me off all the time. When the ball carrier is stopped, whistle it dead ASAP to protect the players.
I don?t know why they aren?t as you are inviting injury and cheap shots. It?s such a simple fix, blow your stinking whistle!!

dd

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 16, 2022, 10:48:13 PM
Simple fix, they need to penalize that suplex move whenever it happens, can't have degrees of severity, body throws should no longer be permitted.
Ya they do. The move is not required to tackle anyone, it?s unnecessary , and  it?s rough, it?s unnecssary roughness , just call it!!

Big Daddy

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 16, 2022, 10:48:13 PM
Simple fix, they need to penalize that suplex move whenever it happens, can't have degrees of severity, body throws should no longer be permitted.

I'm not trying to be controversial, and I do see your point.

One thought on that, though, would be if you have someone from behind and they are fighting to make it to first down (or crossing the goal line).  If you go with the motion the player has instead of using force to flip backward, it could be the difference between yards not gained and a first down (or a TD)

That isn't an extremely rare scenario by any means.  But I am open to being wrong, and welcome other thoughts on this.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Big Daddy on October 17, 2022, 12:49:11 AM
I'm not trying to be controversial, and I do see your point.

One thought on that, though, would be if you have someone from behind and they are fighting to make it to first down (or crossing the goal line).  If you go with the motion the player has instead of using force to flip backward, it could be the difference between yards not gained and a first down (or a TD)

That isn't an extremely rare scenario by any means.  But I am open to being wrong, and welcome other thoughts on this.

Yah, I'm not exactly clear of the play you're describing, but in all cases the offensive player is credited with furthest point of advancement, throwing them backwards does not change that unless they backtrack on their own.

Big Daddy

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 17, 2022, 01:03:59 AM
Yah, I'm not exactly clear of the play you're describing, but in all cases the offensive player is credited with furthest point of advancement, throwing them backwards does not change that unless they backtrack on their own.

Oh definitely the player is credited with the furthest point, I'm just saying I can see where the suplex move, if it's a battle of weight/drive/momentum, could keep the player from gaining enough ground after to make first down or a TD.  If you've got him and it's a bit of a stalemate where momentum is stopped, just falling sideways could allow him to reach further to make the first down or TD.  Simply tackling him to allow forward momentum to bring him down (tying up the legs or just using weight to force him down) would easily allow more forward positioning for the football.

I just think that could be the difference between yards gained for first down/TD, or not.

Tiger

The player with the ball is trying to advance the defender is trying to stop him from advancing.  If you are quick on the whistle the team with the ball will be upset that he did not have the chance to break free or advance more.  If you are slow on the whistle and the defending team has a player come in later (but before the whistle) or momentum is used and it is a hard tackle or supplex then they will be us part when penalized. Further the league likes points because it makes it more like exciting.  So???

You have a choice. 

I think the safe move is the quick whistle that ensures safety.  The more likely and financially better move is later whistle with penalties for hard take downs or later players.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
Bo Jackson

We are inclined to think that if we watch a football game or a baseball game, we have taken part in it
John Fitzgerald Kennedy

BC Sucks
Tiger

dd

The moment Alexander went to pick him up and he wasn?t making forward progress, blow it dead,

theaardvark

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 16, 2022, 10:48:13 PM
Simple fix, they need to penalize that suplex move whenever it happens, can't have degrees of severity, body throws should no longer be permitted.

Suplex is when a player lifts the ballcarrier off the ground and slams him. 

A tackle is when a player wrestles the ballcarrier to the ground.

I think the main distinction is lifting the player off the ground... maybe there is a rule of thumb for how high up is a suplex, and how high you can go and still just be a normal tackling motion.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

3rdand1.5

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on October 16, 2022, 10:48:13 PM
Simple fix, they need to penalize that suplex move whenever it happens, can't have degrees of severity, body throws should no longer be permitted.

This could/should be something the league looks at this offseason.

DM83

Football is a contact sport.  Face it it is violent.  Its been that way for 100 years.  That's part of the game, as is intimidation. a punishing hit seperates the men from the boys.  Yes sometimes someone gets hurt. 

And intimidation is part of the game.  Did you ever play?  if you are a defender, you are asked to "discourage" the ball carrier.  If these  guys have played as an adult, of even a 16 year old, its all part of the game.

Lincoln Locomotive

#41
I've heard the term "suplex" being bandied about on this particular post.   In an earlier post I referred to Charles Robert's being "suplexed" which was a belly to back throw down....which is not exactly the same thing Alexander laid on Rhymes.    Belly to back suplex throws are extremely violent and dangerous and should NEVER happen on a football field!   

I searched the net to find the replay of the Robert's play I'm talking about but no luck.  Here is an exact example of how he was thrown to the ground wrestling style....and which incidentally was NOT penalized!   Bob Irving was literally frothing at the mouth on the no call....even back then! 

https://youtu.be/NojPtq5V7FI
Bomber fan for life

Stats Junkie

Charles Roberts was tackled violently a few times in career - suplex or choke hold body slam.

The CFL addressed this in the mid 00s and it is now unnecessary roughness when the ball carrier is lifted off the ground and slammed to the turf.
Twitter: @Stats_Junkie
Threads: statsjunkie71

The Zipp

if that hit was on Shoen or Demski and they left the game injured people would be crying for a penalty, fine and suspension...it should have been a penalty...Bombers make mistakes too.


buckzumhoff

Should not have been a penalty. If it was its a 15 yard penalty. Even the announcers never even mentioned anything after the play.   went to the next call. Rewatched the play. Overreaction to a hit. Want to see dirty hits.  watch montreal. Durtiest hit i seen was marino to the ankles and helmet to the knees. Montreal facemasks and have 3 players on 1 Ottawa player.  Awe and one other pkayer on montreal couldnt contain their emotions 

GOLDMEMBER

Quote from: buckzumhoff on October 17, 2022, 08:34:51 PM
Should not have been a penalty. If it was its a 15 yard penalty. Even the announcers never even mentioned anything after the play.   went to the next call. Rewatched the play. Overreaction to a hit. Want to see dirty hits.  watch montreal. Durtiest hit i seen was marino to the ankles and helmet to the knees. Montreal facemasks and have 3 players on 1 Ottawa player.  Awe and one other pkayer on montreal couldnt contain their emotions 
I am with buckz on this item. CFL fine BA yet?
I LOSHT MY MEMBER IN AN UNFORTUNATE SHMELTING ACCSHIDENT!

Blue In BC

#46
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on October 17, 2022, 10:23:11 PM
I am with buckz on this item. CFL fine BA yet?

Refs miss calls a lot. It should have been a penalty and quite possibly will result in a fine.  It was more than necessary even though Rhymes was still attempting to make progress.

As pointed out we'd be screaming if this happened to Demski or another Bomber.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

GOLDMEMBER

Quote from: Blue In BC on October 17, 2022, 10:47:50 PM
Refs miss calls a lot. It should have been a penalty and quite possibly will result in a fine.  It was more than necessary even though Rhymes was still attempting to make progress.

As pointed out we'd be screaming if this happened to Demski or another Bomber.
Np agree to disagree, we shall see who the league agrees with?
I LOSHT MY MEMBER IN AN UNFORTUNATE SHMELTING ACCSHIDENT!

BLUEBOMBER

I think it was a border line tackle that BA made.  The refs should have blown the whistle a bit earlier.  Clearly Rhymes was trying to get more yards and he is a big man.  If BA didn't try to bring him down, he could have got more yards after the catch as he didn't seem like he wanted to stop.

Waffler

No fine on Alexander.  There was a fine coming from the game though.

"BC Lions defensive lineman Woody Baron has been fined for unnecessary roughness on Winnipeg Blue Bombers offensive lineman Geoff Gray."
Buried in the essentially random digits of pi, you can find your eight-digit birthdate. (Is that a wink from God or just a lot of digits?) - David G. Myers
__________________________________________________
Everything seems stupid when it fails.  - Fyodor Dostoevsky