Adams Jr. Traded to BC

Started by pjrocksmb, September 01, 2022, 12:53:03 AM

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dd

The Lions had to do something, Pipkin has never impressed and O'Connor got trucked and hurt. Adams is a headcase, hoping Campbell can stabilize him and the Lions make the West interesting. A first round pick though....ouch.

ichabod_crane

Quote from: dd on September 01, 2022, 02:11:28 AM
The Lions had to do something, Pipkin has never impressed and O'Connor got trucked and hurt. Adams is a headcase, hoping Campbell can stabilize him and the Lions make the West interesting. A first round pick though....ouch.

The guy has oodles of potential, just needs to become consistent. Maybe a change in scenery and coaching will help him. BC had to do something to salvage this season with this current lineup. If Roarke somehow hangs around for next season (I'm not sold the NFL will give him a legitimate shot after only half a season of work, but who knows?), he will be due a high pay raise and other cuts on the team probably required. So a bit of a hail mary on BC's part here as they know this situation could be coming next year. 

dd

Rourke isn't going to the NFL any time soon.

Lions did the right move in getting someone to make them competitive, and they'll dump Adams via trade before next season. Edmonton, Ottawa and Hamilton need Qb help

TecnoGenius

Yes, it's almost the perfect move.  It's just what BC needs.  But is VAJ really really ready to go?  He must be close, or he's pretty useless to BC unless they are thinking "just playoffs".  I don't trust whatever injury reports MTL has been saying about him.

But now MTL is committed to T.Harris and is weak on depth.  They better hope he can tapdance his way out of any hits.

From WPG's perspective, VAJ in BC kind of sucks.  They have a legit threat to win games again now.  I was really betting on free bingo spot their iffy backups were going to mean for us.

From VAJ's perspective this gives him a chance to really shine, if he can.  Yes, that guy is a headcase.  Maybe Calm Campbell can help him out.  If VAJ starts putting up huge numbers with that WR corps the QB situation in the CFL will get a whole lot more interesting going into next season.
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Lincoln Locomotive

Adams is a definite upgrade as a back up to Rourke.    We never really had a chance to see what Connor was capable of before he went down.    They still have a good team and he can definitely win some games for them down the stretch.   He's no Jake Maier though who I believe has potential to become a great QB in the CFL.
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GOLDMEMBER

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on September 01, 2022, 04:42:34 AM
Adams is a definite upgrade as a back up to Rourke.    We never really had a chance to see what Connor was capable of before he went down.    They still have a good team and he can definitely win some games for them down the stretch.   He's no Jake Maier though who I believe has potential to become a great QB in the CFL.
this pretty much some somes it all up^
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Tee42

Quote from: dd on September 01, 2022, 02:37:01 AM
Rourke isn't going to the NFL any time soon.

Lions did the right move in getting someone to make them competitive, and they'll dump Adams via trade before next season. Edmonton, Ottawa and Hamilton need Qb help

I would add Toronto to this list

blue_gold_84

Quote from: Tee42 on September 01, 2022, 12:26:39 PM
I would add Toronto to this list

Why? Bethel-Thompson is playing well enough to keep his job.
#forthew
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Pigskin

What is Adams salary? What is this going to do to BC salary cap?
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

TBURGESS

BC is the best team that VAJ has played on. He'll be successful if he can stay away from picks. If he's not successful with BC, then he won't be successful anywhere.

As for salary, almost half of VAJ's salary was a signing bonus. He's worth about $10K per game or $80K for the last 8 games.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.

Blue In BC

#11
Quote from: Pigskin on September 01, 2022, 02:35:33 PM
What is Adams salary? What is this going to do to BC salary cap?

I thought it was in the $250K range? Some might have been paid in advance as a signing bonus so what the impact turns out to be IDK. Regardless the Lions will deal with that. They do have some players that would have been bigger SMS hits that have been on the 6 game IR since TC: Richardson, Baron and Knevel to name a few.

EDIT: Note that Adams is still on 6 game IR. Not technically eligible to come off without an SMS hit. So he may not play in their next game ( game 11 ) but return for game 12. That would be for only 7 games. Small point.



2019 Grey Cup Champions

DM83

Lol! Adams is awful.
He can't read a defence, and always resorts to running. Once a defence adjusts Adams is done.m then he starts crying. Literally. They would do better talking Mattty Ice to hand the ball off, or bring back any of their former QBs

Adams? OMG.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: DM83 on September 01, 2022, 03:07:57 PM
Lol! Adams is awful.
He can't read a defence, and always resorts to running. Once a defence adjusts Adams is done.m then he starts crying. Literally. They would do better talking Mattty Ice to hand the ball off, or bring back any of their former QBs

Adams? OMG.

You and trash comments: name a more insufferable duo.
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kkc60

we will see how this trade goes, but it?s sad watching the Als go from an up and coming team to whatever this is

Pigskin

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 01, 2022, 03:05:52 PM
I thought it was in the $250K range? Some might have been paid in advance as a signing bonus so what the impact turns out to be IDK. Regardless the Lions will deal with that. They do have some players that would have been bigger SMS hits that have been on the 6 game IR since TC: Richardson, Baron and Knevel to name a few.

EDIT: Note that Adams is still on 6 game IR. Not technically eligible to come off without an SMS hit. So he may not play in their next game ( game 11 ) but return for game 12. That would be for only 7 games. Small point.





Yes, but there is a difference between Rourke at $85K and Adams at 250K. Also Adams is an American and Rourke who is Canadian. That luxury of having Rourke is now gone.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Blue In BC

#16
Quote from: Pigskin on September 01, 2022, 05:12:02 PM
Yes, but there is a difference between Rourke at $85K and Adams at 250K. Also Adams is an American and Rourke who is Canadian. That luxury of having Rourke is now gone.

I already said that. Rourke at $5K per game Adams at $10K per game for 7 games. That's only $35K -$40K more to squeeze into the SMS. The players that ended up on the 6 game IR for the entire season that I mentioned were " budgeted " into the 2022 SMS and now excluded. I don't see any new costs after TC that would have had significant additional spend. Just the usual activity of players going onto or off 1 game IR mostly.

So it's not a matter of the difference between $85K and $250K.

In an earlier post I mentioned Adams will have an impact on their ratio. Some Lions fans feel / worry it will mean taking Butler or Norman off the roster as a starter. That's something that will need to be determined.

2019 Grey Cup Champions

Pigskin

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 01, 2022, 05:18:01 PM
I already said that. Rourke at $5K per game Adams at $10K per game for 7 games. That's only $35K -$40K more to squeeze into the SMS. The players that ended up on the 6 game IR for the entire season that I mentioned were " budgeted " into the 2022 SMS and now excluded. I don't see any new costs after TC that would have had significant additional spend. Just the usual activity of players going onto or off 1 game IR mostly.

So it's not a matter of the difference between $85K and $250K.

In an earlier post I mentioned Adams will have an impact on their ratio. Some Lions fans feel / worry it will mean taking Butler or Norman off the roster as a starter. That's something that will need to be determined.



I see the cap hit closer to $63/64K.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Blue In BC

Quote from: Pigskin on September 01, 2022, 05:52:09 PM
I see the cap hit closer to $63/64K.

It depends on how soon they activate him which is a TBD. He won't know the play book for a few weeks, so they may not choose to rush him in as a starter. I don't know if either of us knows how much Rourke or Adams actually get paid.

Obviously the Lions traded to get him so they'll deal with any SMS issues, ratio and timing for him to start.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

pjrocksmb

#19
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 01, 2022, 01:48:11 PM
Why? Bethel-Thompson is playing well enough to keep his job.
Agree
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 01, 2022, 04:07:51 PM
You and trash comments: name a more insufferable duo.
Best to try to ignore if possible, I got sucked into battling posts like that a few weeks ago and realized it just brought more pain.  Enjoying the ignore method even though sometimes a reply or rebuttal is warranted


I like MBT (average vet QB) and think Adams might still pull it together

dd

Quote from: kkc60 on September 01, 2022, 04:46:20 PM
we will see how this trade goes, but it?s sad watching the Als go from an up and coming team to whatever this is
I just don't get Montreal's thinking here....they have a legit shot at winning the east, Harris goes down or struggles, they're done. Why wouldn't they have a strong bullpen going into the home stretch and make a run at things this year. A first round pick is hit and miss at the best of times in the CFL. Brutal move.

ModAdmin

just a word about trashy, unsupported negative comments.  The very best attack against those posts is to ignore them.  Nothing worse than a poster making an opinion that literally no one responds to.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden

buckzumhoff

Take away Harris short passes and montreal is done with harris. Bad trade for montreal but looks like they never planned to use him. I thpught Harris was a tempoary starter but i guess montreal planned to use him all thw time

Waffler

I think it's either Maciocia thinks he is part of their discipline problem, as he sees it, or the new owners are dumping salary. They let him go pretty cheap and you don't need to pay draft picks until next year.
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LXTSN

Quote from: ModAdmin on September 02, 2022, 05:18:38 AM
just a word about trashy, unsupported negative comments.  The very best attack against those posts is to ignore them.  Nothing worse than a poster making an opinion that literally no one responds to.
Agreed. It can become a pride thing to get the last word in on a take, but it really doesn't matter at all lol

blue_gold_84

Quote from: LXTSN on September 02, 2022, 01:58:16 PM
Agreed. It can become a pride thing to get the last word in on a take, but it really doesn't matter at all lol

It sorta matters when it clogs up threads and provides no value to a discussion, though.
#forthew
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theaardvark

VA3 has been at the center of more than a few issues relating to discipline, IIRC.  Maybe Machiocha has another QB in mind, and doesn't see VA3 as the future...  He knows that Harris is not long term... and clearing VA3's $SMS hit leaves him open to make other moves.

I get it, but I don't agree with trading away your best backup option, even for a late first rounder...
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LXTSN

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 02, 2022, 02:30:59 PM
It sorta matters when it clogs up threads and provides no value to a discussion, though.
I mean to say your pride shouldn't matter on the internet. If you know it's going nowhere and there's nothing left to put out then you are not going to change anyones minds. Just relax and move on to another thread

3rdand1.5

IMO, this was a poor move by Mtrl.

My reasoning is they have an honest shot at winning the East this year, at worst they will make the playoffs IMO with Harris starting, however they had a really nice luxury, VAJ, "injured" he could 6 game it, keep his salary off the books meaning he no negative affect on the SMS and IF something happened to Harris he could give them a chance. Now that luxury is only a distant memory.

IMO, this was a great move by BC

My reasoning is they have a chance at winning the West, or at least making the playoffs, With Rourke they had a good chance, without him that chance dropped significantly. They managed to go out and get the next best player they could in VAJ.

Overall I view this trade as a huge win for BC, I don't have a crystal ball to see how it works out, but my prediction is with VAJ running BC will continue to contend for 1st in the West with Wpg and CAL. Meanwhile my prediction is Harris will miss some time whether injury or performance related and it will cost Mtrl a chance at 1st with T.O really being the only competition.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: Waffler on September 02, 2022, 01:38:53 PM
I think it's either Maciocia thinks he is part of their discipline problem, as he sees it, or the new owners are dumping salary. They let him go pretty cheap and you don't need to pay draft picks until next year.

I vote for the second reason, new people in charge of team financing see their largest salary expense not even playing, pretty obvious choice to move on from V.A..  The Als will go as far as fragile Trevor Harris can drag them before they peter out, nobody is going to be very shocked if they don't make it very far.

The fact that Gary Stern stepped away so quickly and no one stepped up to replace his leadership makes it look like the controlling owners want to dump the Als as quickly as possible and don't care at all about the team's immediate or long-term future.

DM83

Adams was a great college QB.  His pro career has been an up hill battle. He hasn't been able to stay with any team.  In my opinion, he is mentally weak.  He is way too emotional.  Fundamentally, his mental game is awful.  He seems to become a hot mess, if he makes a mistake.

Oh well, Montreal possibly came to the same conclusion.


Winnipeg is lucky. We have two backups that could be starters.


Blue In BC

#31
Quote from: DM83 on September 02, 2022, 04:45:19 PM
Adams was a great college QB.  His pro career has been an up hill battle. He hasn't been able to stay with any team.  In my opinion, he is mentally weak.  He is way too emotional.  Fundamentally, his mental game is awful.  He seems to become a hot mess, if he makes a mistake.

Oh well, Montreal possibly came to the same conclusion.


Winnipeg is lucky. We have two backups that could be starters.



Two back ups that could be starters? Based on what?

Brown has 10 completions in 11 games. Prukop has 37 completions in 57 games.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

blue_gold_84

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 02, 2022, 05:13:37 PM
Two back ups that could be starters? Based on what?

Brown has 10 completions in 11 games. Prukop has 37 completions in 57 games.

DM83 is just talking straight up incoherent nonsense.

Adams is a pretty good QB. In his first year as a starter, at the age of 26, he played in 16 games for the Alouettes and started in 15 of them. He had a 65.7% pass completion rate, threw for over 3900 yards, had 24 TDs against 13 INTs (good for a 100.9 QBR), and rushed for nearly 400 yards with 12 more majors (tied for first in the league that season) on the ground. He earned a division all-star nod for his efforts.

He was injured just after the midway point last season but had put up some pretty good numbers. This season started off pretty poorly for him but that's not a shocking revelation considering how awful the Alouettes have been in 2022.

There's nothing to suggest he's mentally weak or too emotional.

Interesting sidebar to all of this: Adams' rights were first held by the BC Lions in 2016 before they were traded to the Alouettes a year later at the draft.
#forthew
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TecnoGenius

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 02, 2022, 05:18:25 PM
There's nothing to suggest he's mentally weak or too emotional.

Do you watch all of the CFL games, not just the WPG ones?  Almost every other game VAJ is huffing and puffing, or freaking out on the sidelines.  In abnormal ways.  There are so many memorable shots of him literally about to explode with anger whilst just sitting there.  He gets the strangest look on his face.  He definitely has trouble controlling his emotions.

And don't forget the Bighill helmet swing.  He almost belted a bare-head Biggie with his own helmet in-game after a fair tackle.  None of this is normal for a QB.

VAJ's strengths are his deep ball, fearlessness, and quick decisions.  DM83 is right: his main problem is reads, and thus his strengths often lead him into trouble (INTs).  He's a decent hot/cold QB kind of like MBT.  But there's no consistency.  I don't think his football IQ is that high.  He reminds me a lot of a modestly better Dom Davis.

Instead of losing 100% of the games that BC would have without Rourke, they will now win around 50% with VAJ.  It's a great trade for BC: they literally couldn't have done better with what's available.
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blue_gold_84

A singular incident isn't indicative of a pattern. He's not Duke Williams.

Expressing emotion - good or bad - doesn't mean an individual is mentally weak or too emotional. There are numerous players in the CFL who emote during games, anyway.
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TecnoGenius

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 02, 2022, 06:01:46 PM
A singular incident isn't indicative of a pattern. He's not Duke Williams.

Expressing emotion - good or bad - doesn't mean an individual is mentally weak or too emotional. There are numerous players in the CFL who emote during games, anyway.

It's not one time.  It's every other game.  That's what we're trying to say.  Just look at him on the sidelines.  There is literally no other QB that acts like him.  I can't think of one that even comes close in the last 10 years of CFL.  It's just who he is.

And he's not "numerous players", he's the QB, the leader of the team.  QBs, like captains of a ship, need to set the tone and be at a higher level than the other players.  He can't act like some DT like Marino can.

Compare with MBT.  MBT is emotional, gets those crazy eyes and gets really animated on the sidelines, but he doesn't pull the "I'm about to kill someone if I'm not restrained" faces that VAJ does.  MBT also doesn't explode with rage on-field.

If you haven't seen this yet, I'm not sure what to say.  The good thing is, we'll be able to see all this in VAJ in BC in a week or two.  On the one hand VAJ will care less about his new team than his old one he was fully invested in, and might not get as worked up.  But on the other hand, if VAJ plays poorly and loses in BC surrounded by a top-2 caliber team, I could see him having blowups like never before.

Doesn't mean I don't like watching the guy or want him to fail.  He's definitely CFL starter material (at the moment) and the league is better with him playing (at the moment).  He is good enough to win games, that's for sure.
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blue_gold_84

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 02, 2022, 06:15:17 PM
It's not one time.

The helmet incident was a one time occurrence.

I won't even bother addressing the rest of your reply. There's no point.
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Throw Long Bannatyne

#37
A few unreliable QB's and they all seem to be out east, Adams, Evans, MBT and T. Harris, I hate trying to predict how any of these QB's will perform on any given night. Massively inconsistent seems to be their motto.