Winnipeg Jets Discussion - 2022/2023 Season

Started by blue_gold_84, August 16, 2022, 05:04:36 PM

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blue_or_die

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on May 25, 2023, 08:43:45 PM
You don't get a chance to make a run unless you make the playoffs, though. Not saying it's the rule but look at a team like the Panthers right now. Anything is possible in the playoffs but you have to make it in first.


The Panthers are a stacked team that were expected to go on a run like they are, but everyone forgot because they had such a lacklustre regular season. They got to that point by building up their roster. With a few exceptions, every team "inevitably" (I use that word cautiously) will get good in today's NHL, it's just a matter of winning it all while they're in that window before they inevitably wash out and become not so great, which is where the Jets are finding themselves now, on the right hand side of a peak but before the valley.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on May 25, 2023, 08:43:45 PM
The Jets have struggled to market the team well recently. Trying to market a potential rebuild seems like a failure to me, especially when players have no interest in being part of it.

They don't really have a choice but to market a rebuild at some point, for the reasons stated above. And in such a scenario, the players who have no interest being part of it are irrelevant because by definition, they'd be gonezo.
#Ride?

blue_gold_84

Quote from: blue_or_die on May 26, 2023, 08:31:35 PM
The Panthers are a stacked team that were expected to go on a run like they are, but everyone forgot because they had such a lacklustre regular season. They got to that point by building up their roster. With a few exceptions, every team "inevitably" (I use that word cautiously) will get good in today's NHL, it's just a matter of winning it all while they're in that window before they inevitably wash out and become not so great, which is where the Jets are finding themselves now, on the right hand side of a peak but before the valley.

They don't really have a choice but to market a rebuild at some point, for the reasons stated above. And in such a scenario, the players who have no interest being part of it are irrelevant because by definition, they'd be gonezo.

The Panthers were down 3-1 in their opening round vs. BOS and clawed back into and eventually won the series on the back of their goalie. Bobrovsky has carried that team this post-season, which isn't so different from what Hellebuyck has done for the Jets in recent regular season campaigns. That's where the comparison between the two teams ends, though. The Panthers don't have to deal with being an undesirable market where few players want to play.

And this organization absolutely does have a choice. They've drafted well and need to continue developing that talent to complement the core as others age out or no longer fit here.
#forthew
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blue_or_die

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on May 29, 2023, 04:19:42 PM
The Panthers were down 3-1 in their opening round vs. BOS and clawed back into and eventually won the series on the back of their goalie. Bobrovsky has carried that team this post-season, which isn't so different from what Hellebuyck has done for the Jets in recent regular season campaigns. That's where the comparison between the two teams ends, though. The Panthers don't have to deal with being an undesirable market where few players want to play.

And this organization absolutely does have a choice. They've drafted well and need to continue developing that talent to complement the core as others age out or no longer fit here.

Definitely disagree there. Everyone has to rebuild at some point. It's a matter of knowing when it's the right time.
#Ride?

blue_gold_84

Quote from: blue_or_die on May 29, 2023, 06:44:09 PM
Definitely disagree there. Everyone has to rebuild at some point. It's a matter of knowing when it's the right time.

I didn't say otherwise. I'm saying something similar to your last line: making the choice to do so at the ideal time.

Based on what I see with this organization right now, this is not the time for a rebuild. I don't think such a drastic measure needs to be taken.

And to be blunt: I'd rather see a new GM before the organization even considers a rebuild.

Also: are you disagreeing this team hasn't drafted well?
#forthew
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Don't be a Rich.

Pigskin

Buffalo apparently wants Helli. Love to get Cozens and a draft choice or top prospect. 
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

blue_or_die

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on May 29, 2023, 10:06:45 PM
I didn't say otherwise. I'm saying something similar to your last line: making the choice to do so at the ideal time.

Based on what I see with this organization right now, this is not the time for a rebuild. I don't think such a drastic measure needs to be taken.

And to be blunt: I'd rather see a new GM before the organization even considers a rebuild.

Also: are you disagreeing this team hasn't drafted well?

Ok, well then I disagree with your assessment that the right time isn?t now. I think that given our ?Core Four? contract situation and the fact that we seem to have objectively hit our ceiling and are largely mediocre, the writing is on the wall. Unless we can do a retool, but I?m not sure trading our good players for other good players isn?t a lateral move resulting in little to no improvement.

I think that with the org giving Chevy his new contract that Chevy might be wise to start over and use that as an excuse to extend his tenure; being a bubble team is the likely outcome IMO and won?t give him another extension.

And no argument from me that Chevy drafts very well.
#Ride?

Jesse

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on May 29, 2023, 10:06:45 PM
I didn't say otherwise. I'm saying something similar to your last line: making the choice to do so at the ideal time.

Based on what I see with this organization right now, this is not the time for a rebuild. I don't think such a drastic measure needs to be taken.

And to be blunt: I'd rather see a new GM before the organization even considers a rebuild.

Also: are you disagreeing this team hasn't drafted well?

Draft and develop are the parameters we have to work within.

We not only did that perfectly; Allowing PoMo to go young and develop the team, hit on multiple picks with Ehlers, Connor, Scheifele, Helle, Trouba, Morrissey, Laine/Dubois all hitting and becoming top 6/Top 4 NHLers; We also lucked out by getting a Vezina winner for the cost of a 5th and securing his and Scheifele's contracts early at team friendly numbers; while also "winning" the draft lottery in our sucky years to get the #2 draft pick.

Everything came up Milhouse and we battled to the conference finals in 2018/19. That should have been the beginning of our run. Unfortunately, it turned out to be the peak and we've straight up wasted the prime years of our core. Even if we could bring everyone back - all this team has proven to be is a bubble team that may or may not make the playoffs.

Part of draft and develop is knowing when a "development" has taken it's course, and reinvesting in the "draft". We have young guys coming up: like Perfetti, Lambert, McGroarty, Heinola, Samberg. The best thing to do at this point in time would be to try and add some premium picks into that collection so 3-4 years from now the current prospect group has a couple years experience when we add a couple elite top-5 picks into the mix. Then we can enter a new window that has frankly closed on this group.
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Jockitch

Quote from: Pigskin on May 29, 2023, 11:06:33 PM
Buffalo apparently wants Helli. Love to get Cozens and a draft choice or top prospect. 

If Chevy knew he had Dubois signing, he definitely should do it
How about he tells Buffalo that Scheifle has to be part of it
- would suggest the Sabres give us Cozens, Jack Quinn, J.J. Peterka, Goalie - Devon Levi and of course their 1st Rd pick this June and next year
Chevy gives up HellB, Scheifle and Perfetti
BOMBERS ARE GREY CUP " CHAMPS "
               
          HUSTLE & MUSCLE

Pigskin

Quote from: Jockitch on May 30, 2023, 04:27:20 AM
If Chevy knew he had Dubois signing, he definitely should do it
How about he tells Buffalo that Scheifle has to be part of it
- would suggest the Sabres give us Cozens, Jack Quinn, J.J. Peterka, Goalie - Devon Levi and of course their 1st Rd pick this June and next year
Chevy gives up HellB, Scheifle and Perfetti

Well that depends on if we are rebuilding or retooling.  I was thinking PL80 or MS55 to Arizona for Lawson Crouse.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Jesse

PL80 is leaving, that means we're keeping MS55.

Chevy's gonna insist on getting an NHL player + low end draft pick/prospect, rather than getting a higher draft pick/prospect + low end player. And he's gonna re-sign Scheif to a legacy contract. Helle too, if he can get him to agree to it.
My wife is amazing!

theaardvark

#761
Quote from: Jesse on May 30, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
PL80 is leaving, that means we're keeping MS55.

Chevy's gonna insist on getting an NHL player + low end draft pick/prospect, rather than getting a higher draft pick/prospect + low end player. And he's gonna re-sign Scheif to a legacy contract. Helle too, if he can get him to agree to it.

Tying MS55 around your neck like an albatross without a letter on his chest seems like a bad idea.  Even trading him for someone who approximates his production, even if it costs you a good prospect or draft pick would be a much better move, even if you lose PLD80.
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Jesse

Quote from: theaardvark on May 30, 2023, 06:57:52 PM
Typing MS55 around your neck like an albatross without a letter on his chest seems like a bad idea.  Even trading him for someone who approximates his production, even if it costs you a good prospect or draft pick would be a much better move, even if you lose PLD80.

It's what I believe will happen, not what I would personally do.
My wife is amazing!

Pigskin

#763
Montreal/Winnipeg trade for PL80.  Maybe Joshua Roy, and this years #5 pick in the draft. A number of very good players in the top 10. If a player like Fantilli  dropped to #5, that would be a great pick.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Jockitch

Though I paid a pretty penny, years back, for a nice white team jersey with Scheif's name on the back, I truly hope Chevy moves him.
PLD80 may never be a point a game player but his style is much loved
If we go forward without him and legacy contract #55 and expect Perffeti to be a 2-way star, then me thinks Chevy will be making a mistake

Legacy contract HellB, maybe 8 years at $8.5 per, than okay

The Buffalo stuff was good fun and I am a Cozens fan 
BOMBERS ARE GREY CUP " CHAMPS "
               
          HUSTLE & MUSCLE