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Author Topic: Official Game Day Thread - Montreal at Winnipeg August 11, 2022  (Read 4441 times)
Pigskin
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« Reply #150 on: August 12, 2022, 01:19:03 PM »

Ridiculous suggestion. Like, I shouldn?t even being acknowledging it.

Agree. Gray took two penalties should we be sitting him also.
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TheDeuce
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« Reply #151 on: August 12, 2022, 01:29:41 PM »



{Snip}


Even if shanked he did not put much juice on that ball.  He was trying to finesse it in for 3.  We needed no finesse.  We needed Paul Ryan Mr. 1-Pointer to just hoof it at 300mph and hit it into Shawarma Kahn's kitchen.

{More snip}



OK, that's the first laugh I've had since the game ended and I needed that.  Many thanks!


I ended up investing in Bodog's 4.25:1 Happiness Insurance in the end so at least I made a few bucks.  Strangely I'm not all that happy.



m.
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The vet takes a look & says, "It seems calm enough to me."

Stupid vet - I hadn't taken it out of the bowl yet.
blue_or_die
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« Reply #152 on: August 12, 2022, 01:50:51 PM »

Paul Ryan retired as Speaker of the House a fees years back, unfortunately.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #153 on: August 12, 2022, 02:23:32 PM »

If I'm MOS, I sit Rutledge38 next game.  Sit. on. the. bench.  I don't care if that means a 2nd stringer or NAT at SAM.  Bench. that. guy.  After one game, dude can play again having learned his lesson.

Other teams are allowed to make that mistake.  Our team is not.  MOS has said that mistake is not acceptable over the years.


Other than Liegghio, do you think there is a player on the team that feels worse than Rutledge right now?  You think there is more punishment that you can dole out than letting him think about that finger for the next two weeks?  If anything, his next game (which you would like to sit him from) will be his best, as he tries to atone.

Just a stupid idea, sorry.

As to punting for a single, sure, in theory.  But what does that do to your kicker's psyche?  You are telling him, "We don't trust you to hit from inside the PAT range, so try to hoof it out of the endzone."   Jeesh.  You never cut the leggs out from under a player by suggesting the do something other than what they are trained to do.  He is a 90%+ kicker on the season.  He's been perfect at F's except in one game vs. BC.

Yes, a FG has more moving parts.  But punts get blocked, something FG rarely do.  And shanked, its not a guarantee it goes out.  Kicking it out the side is not shorter than out the end.  The more I think about it, the more I think the punt idea was rightly not even a consideration by MOS.

On the final play FG attempt, the snap was wide, and the hold seemed iffy, both of which seemed to rattle Leggs on his approach and he seemed to hop/stutter.  Could it have been made?  Sure, Should it have been made?  Definitely.  Am I giving him a pass on missing it?  Nope.  But it didn't lose us the game, and it was certainly something the team should have recovered from.

The OT miss, well, it was about as close as you could be, and he was coming off probably his most traumatic miss in his career only minutes before.  alf an inch left and it hits and goes through.  But that is beside the point.  There is no reason we should not have been able to drive the 35 yards into the endzone.  2 and out in overtime is not acceptable.  Running on the first play was not a great idea.  You take a deep shot first play.  You have Ellingson back, and Shoen, and Demski.  3 sweet targets that you can get a chunk play with.  So, of course, hand it to BO20.  Yes, he had a couple nice runs earlier, but are you playing to win the game, or to kick for a tie and go to overtime 2 hoping your D stops them.

It felt like, to me, the entire game was a "Lets not lose this one". Absolutely not Bomber football, and yes, a "trap game". 

Excuses:

Played more games on shorter turnarounds, than any other team.  More travel miles so far, and more timezone games than any other team.  This schedule has been brutal. 

If, before the season started, you said "I hope we are 9-1 going into the bye", anyone would have guffawed at that statement, and (looking at the schedule), would have been happy with 7-3 or even 6-4.  Getting here 9-1 is amazing.  Expecting this game to leave them 10-0 was reasonable, sure, but getting the loss out of the way, and looking into the final 8 games from 9-1 is better than any of us would have expected or hoped for.  And, Rutledge, Liegghio, Benson, Prokup, and all the rest are not just part of the loss last night, but the 9-1 team that leads the league, and will continue to hold 1st place for at least 3 more games...
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 03:00:00 PM by theaardvark » Logged

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Horseman
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« Reply #154 on: August 12, 2022, 03:15:15 PM »

Just an observation, I watched Prukop's hold on the OT kick and he places the ball, spins the laces but instead of putting his finger on top of the ball to hold it, he uses his thumb and index finger (like doing an okay sign) to cup the top of the ball. This is unorthodox IMO.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #155 on: August 12, 2022, 03:24:31 PM »

Just an observation, I watched Prukop's hold on the OT kick and he places the ball, spins the laces but instead of putting his finger on top of the ball to hold it, he uses his thumb and index finger (like doing an okay sign) to cup the top of the ball. This is unorthodox IMO.

I guess we need to go back a bit, and see if that is his normal way to hold, of if he modified it after the previous missed FG... or even before the missed FG.

The Benson/Prukop/Liegghio battery has been 100% on FG attempts until yesterday...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #156 on: August 12, 2022, 04:10:40 PM »

Other than Liegghio, do you think there is a player on the team that feels worse than Rutledge right now?  You think there is more punishment that you can dole out than letting him think about that finger for the next two weeks?  If anything, his next game (which you would like to sit him from) will be his best, as he tries to atone.

Just a stupid idea, sorry.

As to punting for a single, sure, in theory.  But what does that do to your kicker's psyche?  You are telling him, "We don't trust you to hit from inside the PAT range, so try to hoof it out of the endzone."   Jeesh.  You never cut the leggs out from under a player by suggesting the do something other than what they are trained to do.  He is a 90%+ kicker on the season.  He's been perfect at F's except in one game vs. BC.

Yes, a FG has more moving parts.  But punts get blocked, something FG rarely do.  And shanked, its not a guarantee it goes out.  Kicking it out the side is not shorter than out the end.  The more I think about it, the more I think the punt idea was rightly not even a consideration by MOS.

On the final play FG attempt, the snap was wide, and the hold seemed iffy, both of which seemed to rattle Leggs on his approach and he seemed to hop/stutter.  Could it have been made?  Sure, Should it have been made?  Definitely.  Am I giving him a pass on missing it?  Nope.  But it didn't lose us the game, and it was certainly something the team should have recovered from.

The OT miss, well, it was about as close as you could be, and he was coming off probably his most traumatic miss in his career only minutes before.  alf an inch left and it hits and goes through.  But that is beside the point.  There is no reason we should not have been able to drive the 35 yards into the endzone.  2 and out in overtime is not acceptable.  Running on the first play was not a great idea.  You take a deep shot first play.  You have Ellingson back, and Shoen, and Demski.  3 sweet targets that you can get a chunk play with.  So, of course, hand it to BO20.  Yes, he had a couple nice runs earlier, but are you playing to win the game, or to kick for a tie and go to overtime 2 hoping your D stops them.

It felt like, to me, the entire game was a "Lets not lose this one". Absolutely not Bomber football, and yes, a "trap game". 

Excuses:

Played more games on shorter turnarounds, than any other team.  More travel miles so far, and more timezone games than any other team.  This schedule has been brutal. 

If, before the season started, you said "I hope we are 9-1 going into the bye", anyone would have guffawed at that statement, and (looking at the schedule), would have been happy with 7-3 or even 6-4.  Getting here 9-1 is amazing.  Expecting this game to leave them 10-0 was reasonable, sure, but getting the loss out of the way, and looking into the final 8 games from 9-1 is better than any of us would have expected or hoped for.  And, Rutledge, Liegghio, Benson, Prokup, and all the rest are not just part of the loss last night, but the 9-1 team that leads the league, and will continue to hold 1st place for at least 3 more games...

Liegghio had a 49.5 yard average and 42.5 yard net for the game. His season average was 47.4 yards.  More FG's and converts are missed than punts blocked. Current stat shows 19 of 23 made. Whether that includes last night or not, I'm not sure but I don't recall him having a punt blocked in 2022? It has nothing to do with enforcing or squashing the kickers ego. It's a statistical probability / strategic choice. IIRC even the broadcasters mentioned that before the FG kick. IT was the simpler choice.

It's the KISS rule. Direct snap, less moving parts and all that. O'Shea's job was to win by making the best strategic decision, not pad FG stats. IMO he made the wrong choice and as I said, I thought that before the FG kick not in hindsight.

Doesn't make me a genius or even right but that's what I thought at the time.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 04:25:03 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #157 on: August 12, 2022, 04:11:14 PM »

Other than Liegghio, do you think there is a player on the team that feels worse than Rutledge right now?  You think there is more punishment that you can dole out than letting him think about that finger for the next two weeks?  If anything, his next game (which you would like to sit him from) will be his best, as he tries to atone.

Just a stupid idea, sorry.


I take it you would also be opposed to having the offending digit amputated?  Having a guy with one less finger moping about the dressing room would be an astute reminder of the cost of making a serious mistake at precisely the wrong moment.  A life lesson for all.
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famicommander
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« Reply #158 on: August 12, 2022, 04:41:01 PM »

Of course he didn't....from the 32 YL near dead centre you always go for the FG....he had made 15 in a row before the 2 misses.

His make/miss stats are skewed because the overwhelming majority of his attempts are from inside extra point distance. High school kickers can make most of their kicks when you're under 30 yards most of the time.

If you look at his field goals and extra points combined, he has missed at least one kick in 9 of the 13 games in which he has attempted a kick.

That's ridiculously bad. There's no two ways about it.
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northof30
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« Reply #159 on: August 12, 2022, 05:21:43 PM »

Liegghio had a 49.5 yard average and 42.5 yard net for the game. His season average was 47.4 yards.  More FG's and converts are missed than punts blocked. Current stat shows 19 of 23 made. Whether that includes last night or not, I'm not sure but I don't recall him having a punt blocked in 2022? It has nothing to do with enforcing or squashing the kickers ego. It's a statistical probability / strategic choice. IIRC even the broadcasters mentioned that before the FG kick. IT was the simpler choice.

It's the KISS rule. Direct snap, less moving parts and all that. O'Shea's job was to win by making the best strategic decision, not pad FG stats. IMO he made the wrong choice and as I said, I thought that before the FG kick not in hindsight.

Doesn't make me a genius or even right but that's what I thought at the time.

I agree with your analysis.
I also don't believe that the rough schedule for the first half of the season contributed to this loss. It's a matter of the energy that the team has and when you consider the following they should have been incredibly pumped:
1. It's the last game before the bye/rest.
2. It's being played at home before a great fan base.
3. It's an opportunity to go undefeated and set a record doing so.
4. They're playing with fewer injuries than they've had for awhile.
5. They're playing a team that isn't their equal.
Yes, every team has games where they underachieve but in a tie game your final line of defence can often be your reliance on your kicker, especially in overtime, and missing twice from very makable distances is unacceptable. I think the if I were coach on the first attempt that would have ended the game I would have talked to Liegghio and said look this is a 52 yard attempt so treat it as such.
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #160 on: August 12, 2022, 05:26:29 PM »

His make/miss stats are skewed because the overwhelming majority of his attempts are from inside extra point distance. High school kickers can make most of their kicks when you're under 30 yards most of the time.

If you look at his field goals and extra points combined, he has missed at least one kick in 9 of the 13 games in which he has attempted a kick.

That's ridiculously bad. There's no two ways about it.
looking at the CFL stats....he was 5th and just ahead of Castillo who was right behind him.    He is first in punting.   This is his 2nd year and he will get better.    Medlock missed a very makeable potential game winning FG for us on at least one occasion....it happens to the best of them.   At one time I was admittedly not a fan of Legghio and we then signed Castillo late last season and he was lights out....but he's been around for awhile with loads more experience.   This year has been different and of course he was also very consistent on FGs, other than one game, and he just picked a bad time to miss in front of 31+K rabid Bomber fans expecting us to be 10 and 0.    He will hopefully learn from this and continue to grow.    I said hopefully!  His passport and handling ALL the kicking duties is huge in terms of the ratio....HUGE!  So cut him some slack.....take a pill....breathe or do whatever it takes to calm yourself down.    I too was terribly disappointed however it was bound to happen.....in the CFL I've learned to expect the unexpected!  
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #161 on: August 12, 2022, 05:34:42 PM »

I agree with your analysis.
I also don't believe that the rough schedule for the first half of the season contributed to this loss. It's a matter of the energy that the team has and when you consider the following they should have been incredibly pumped:
1. It's the last game before the bye/rest.
2. It's being played at home before a great fan base.
3. It's an opportunity to go undefeated and set a record doing so.
4. They're playing with fewer injuries than they've had for awhile.
5. They're playing a team that isn't their equal.
Yes, every team has games where they underachieve but in a tie game your final line of defence can often be your reliance on your kicker, especially in overtime, and missing twice from very makable distances is unacceptable. I think the if I were coach on the first attempt that would have ended the game I would have talked to Liegghio and said look this is a 52 yard attempt so treat it as such.

The misses were from 32 and 37 yards.
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famicommander
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« Reply #162 on: August 12, 2022, 05:37:57 PM »

looking at the CFL stats....he was 5th and just ahead of Castillo who was right behind him.    He is first in punting.   This is his 2nd year and he will get better.    Medlock missed a very makeable potential game winning FG for us on at least one occasion....it happens to the best of them.   At one time I was admittedly not a fan of Legghio and we then signed Castillo late last season and he was lights out....but he's been around for awhile with loads more experience.   This year has been different and of course he was also very consistent on FGs, other than one game, and he just picked a bad time to miss in front of 31+K rabid Bomber fans expecting us to be 10 and 0.    He will hopefully learn from this and continue to grow.    I said hopefully!  His passport and handling ALL the kicking duties is huge in terms of the ratio....HUGE!  So cut him some slack.....take a pill....breathe or do whatever it takes to calm yourself down.    I too was terribly disappointed however it was bound to happen.....in the CFL I've learned to expect the unexpected!  

We don't have time for him to grow into the role. We have a 34 year old QB and we're trying to threepeat. This is not the time to be screwing around with a headcase kicker.

Missing a kick in 9 out of 13 games is ridiculously horrible. There is no other way to spin it, no other way of looking at it. This entire season is about trying to win two playoff games. You can't bring a kicker with misses in 9 of 13 games to the Western Conference Final and rely on him. No way, no how.

It's dumb to compare him to Castillo or other kickers that have years of a sample size which shows they can kick at this level. Liegghio's entire sample size shows he's only played 4 games in his whole career without missing a kick.

The fact that so many of his misses are extra points and/or clutch time field goals says he doesn't have the goods in between the ears. We don't have time to be his sports psychologists. We're trying to win now.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 05:40:32 PM by famicommander » Logged
theaardvark
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« Reply #163 on: August 12, 2022, 05:40:01 PM »

I have a new theory for the loss and lack of energy to start the game.

It is the flyover's fault.  We were execting two exciting fighter jets to swoop over the stadium, whipping 30k+ fans into a frenzy.  

Instead, we get a bloody CT-142 Dash 8 prop plane lumbering over the stadium.  The same commuter plane cheap airlines use for short haul / no flight attendant runs.  With a big nose.  

It wasn't just anticlimactic, it was comical.  It was tragic.  And did absolutely nothing to "pump up the crowd".

Thanks RAF for nothing... 100% the military's fault we lost.
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Waffler
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« Reply #164 on: August 12, 2022, 05:42:16 PM »

I guess we need to go back a bit, and see if that is his normal way to hold, of if he modified it after the previous missed FG... or even before the missed FG.

The Benson/Prukop/Liegghio battery has been 100% on FG attempts until yesterday...

Prokop held week one and promptly went on the 6 game injury list. We missed a kick in that game where the hold seemed to go down in slow motion also. I don't know if Leggs likes him but on tv he does not look efficient in getting the ball set and waiting. The good string of kicks happened with Prokop out.
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