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Author Topic: In OShea I trust  (Read 2538 times)
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #120 on: August 04, 2022, 02:17:31 PM »

MOS has always been a great coach because you say he was. No need for facts. No need to win or make the playoffs or win playoff games or have home playoff games or win Grey Cups. No measurables at all.

You can be a great coach and miss the playoffs for two years. Maybe true, but you can certainly be a bad HC and miss the playoffs for two straight years, which MOS was. You can be a great coach and stick with Willy until you're forced to make a change. You can personally bring in Kuale & others and stick with them too long. You can be a great coach and bring in terrible coordinators.

No one could have turned our bad team around quicker, yet other coaches turned other equally bad teams around quicker. Other coaches have also won more playoff games and had more home playoff games.

Everyone should 'admit' you're right and be 'embarrassed' to have any other opinion.

You should be 'embarrassed' for refusing to 'admit' that Collaros, not MOS, is THE difference between a highly successful team and a mid-tier team & that we wouldn't be back to back GC winners without him.

Your argument makes no sense. Football teams win and lose games for a lot of reasons. The head coach is just one variable. If Collaros were to get hurt tonight we'd probably lose more football games. Would that mean Mike O'Shea would no longer be a good coach? Would he be less good? Of course not. Having a fantastic quarterback and having a fantastic head coach are separate variables. One does not depend on the other. Both are important.
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The Zipp
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« Reply #121 on: August 04, 2022, 03:35:09 PM »

MOS might be the reason Collaros is here...it is a not just a black and white:

MOS - maybe good to great
Collaros - the only reason we are a dominate team.

It is a team game and MOS is the leader of this team and he has preached playing a clean game over and over and guess what the Bombers take the least amount of penalties and make the least amount of errors...he is a great coach end of story.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #122 on: August 04, 2022, 03:47:34 PM »

Your argument makes no sense. Football teams win and lose games for a lot of reasons. The head coach is just one variable. If Collaros were to get hurt tonight we'd probably lose more football games. Would that mean Mike O'Shea would no longer be a good coach? Would he be less good? Of course not. Having a fantastic quarterback and having a fantastic head coach are separate variables. One does not depend on the other. Both are important.
Make no sense to you because you don't want it to. Nothing but MOS is a great HC & always has been makes any sense to you.

All the measurables changed the moment that Collaros started. Night and day difference. MOS' reign has two parts. Before Collaros. With Collaros. Without Collaros, you wouldn't have any measurables saying that MOS is a great HC, let alone that he was always a great HC. With Collaros you have dominance & 2 Grey Cups. MOS is great now because of Collaros & the two can't be separated.

If Collaros went down tonight, and I really hope he doesn't, it's a given that we'd lose more games. If MOS is great like you're arguing, then he'd find a way to at least get to the Grey Cup if not win it without Collaros. Do you see that happening? I don't.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #123 on: August 04, 2022, 03:50:48 PM »

All the measurables changed the moment that Collaros started. Night and day difference.

This is just flat out wrong.

And what's particularly comical in all this is back in 2019 when Collaros was acquired, you lamented the trade. Now your tune has completely changed with the gift of hindsight and O'Shea only became better due to one player.

That's garbage.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 03:52:29 PM by blue_gold_84 » Logged

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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #124 on: August 04, 2022, 03:56:01 PM »

MOS might be the reason Collaros is here...it is a not just a black and white:

MOS - maybe good to great
Collaros - the only reason we are a dominate team.

It is a team game and MOS is the leader of this team and he has preached playing a clean game over and over and guess what the Bombers take the least amount of penalties and make the least amount of errors...he is a great coach end of story.
yeah ok already....can we all agree that he's a good to great coach now?   This Merry go round dialogue is getting tiresome....now let's go get the Als and be 9-0 and set us up for the return match at home and be 10-0 going into our bye week!   Even if we went 18-0 this season and won a third Cup there are posters on here that might argue he wasn't a great coach.....
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #125 on: August 04, 2022, 04:00:09 PM »

Make no sense to you because you don't want it to. Nothing but MOS is a great HC & always has been makes any sense to you.

All the measurables changed the moment that Collaros started. Night and day difference. MOS' reign has two parts. Before Collaros. With Collaros. Without Collaros, you wouldn't have any measurables saying that MOS is a great HC, let alone that he was always a great HC. With Collaros you have dominance & 2 Grey Cups. MOS is great now because of Collaros & the two can't be separated.

If Collaros went down tonight, and I really hope he doesn't, it's a given that we'd lose more games. If MOS is great like you're arguing, then he'd find a way to at least get to the Grey Cup if not win it without Collaros. Do you see that happening? I don't.

You could say it the other way and be just as correct. Collaros was pretty lousy as a Rider and not very good for quite awhile. Then he joined up with O'Shea and everything changed. Collaros' reign has two parts. Before O'Shea and after O'Shea.

For the record, the above paragraph isn't correct either, but the logic used is the same as yours.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #126 on: August 04, 2022, 04:10:30 PM »

Great quarterbacking didn't get the 2019 team to the big show, much less win it. Competent quarterbacking, as evidenced by the statistics in those three playoff games, certainly helped, as well as a couple of fantastic performances by the defense (WSF, GC) and a championship performance by a legendary tailback.

There goes the theory that a single QB made O'Shea great.
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M.O.A.B.
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« Reply #127 on: August 04, 2022, 04:17:03 PM »

Can argue also that why Collaros is dominant in Winnipeg is because he has an O-Line that can protect him and was with Harris as his safety valve.

All pieces need to fit together.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 04:28:00 PM by M.O.A.B. » Logged
kkc60
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« Reply #128 on: August 04, 2022, 04:23:33 PM »

O?Shea has certainly made questionable roster and in-game decisions as has every coach. At the end of the day, he has built a culture on this team that is only rivaled by Calgary in the CFL. Two Grey Cups speak for themselves. Would we have them without Collaros? Probably not. Would we have them without MOS? Same answer. KW too
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« Reply #129 on: August 04, 2022, 04:58:48 PM »

O?Shea has certainly made questionable roster and in-game decisions as has every coach. At the end of the day, he has built a culture on this team that is only rivaled by Calgary in the CFL. Two Grey Cups speak for themselves. Would we have them without Collaros? Probably not. Would we have them without MOS? Same answer. KW too

Which of course is absolutely true.  You simply cannot prove one individual in any team sport is the difference between winning and losing. In Calgary it was the result of a great team, coaches and management.  Same applies to the Blue Bombers.
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GCn19
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« Reply #130 on: August 04, 2022, 05:00:00 PM »

FACT: Every year since MOS took over the Bomber's on field product has shown upward trajectory.

FACT: Since MOS took over players both past and present have raved about the culture of the dressing room and have opined that it is due to MOS's coaching.

FACT: MOS being our HC was directly cited by a few high profile FA's who signed here and have gone on to become key cogs in our success.

FACT: We are two time defending GC champs.

FACT: Over the past several seasons our regular season and playoff success has hinged on the domination of our defence. We do not have an overly impressive offensive output in any playoff game over the past several years actually.

FACT: Zac Collaros went from bum in Riderville to MOP under the tutelage of our coaches and the makeup of our roster.

FACT: MOS told us right from the beginning that his team was going to be one that was built on defence and a strong, accountable, and disciplined locker room. Hard to deny that our success was not entirely built on the initial plan.

FACT: MOS inherited a tire fire that no coach, not even Vince Lombardi, could have won with without a complete evaluation, teardown, and then rebuild of the roster.
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bluengold204
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« Reply #131 on: August 04, 2022, 05:29:25 PM »

Make no sense to you because you don't want it to. Nothing but MOS is a great HC & always has been makes any sense to you.

All the measurables changed the moment that Collaros started. Night and day difference. MOS' reign has two parts. Before Collaros. With Collaros. Without Collaros, you wouldn't have any measurables saying that MOS is a great HC, let alone that he was always a great HC. With Collaros you have dominance & 2 Grey Cups. MOS is great now because of Collaros & the two can't be separated.

If Collaros went down tonight, and I really hope he doesn't, it's a given that we'd lose more games. If MOS is great like you're arguing, then he'd find a way to at least get to the Grey Cup if not win it without Collaros. Do you see that happening? I don't.

1)  Please dont jinx him
2)  I think its safe to say the same with any team in the league, if their QB goes down they will more likely lose more games than with him in...
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #132 on: August 04, 2022, 06:01:20 PM »

FACT: Every year since MOS took over the Bomber's on field product has shown upward trajectory.
NOPE: 5th, 4th, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 1st

FACT: Since MOS took over players both past and present have raved about the culture of the dressing room and have opined that it is due to MOS's coaching.
NOPE: Fact is raving about the culture, which was put in by the Mafia, including MOS. Opinion that that is due to MOS' coaching.

FACT: MOS being our HC was directly cited by a few high profile FA's who signed here and have gone on to become key cogs in our success.
YUP:

FACT: We are two time defending GC champs.
FACT: Both since Collaros took over.

FACT: Over the past several seasons our regular season and playoff success has hinged on the domination of our defence. We do not have an overly impressive offensive output in any playoff game over the past several years actually.
FACT: Even with that defensive dominance we still didn't win playoff games or Grey Cups without Collaros.

FACT: Zac Collaros went from bum in Riderville to MOP under the tutelage of our coaches and the makeup of our roster.
YUP: He also had a year off to get his head right and protection from a real O line.

FACT: MOS told us right from the beginning that his team was going to be one that was built on defence and a strong, accountable, and disciplined locker room. Hard to deny that our success was not entirely built on the initial plan.
NOPE: Another opinion loosely based on a fact. (Do you have source from the early days for this? Not saying it didn't happen, but I don't remember MOS saying it.)

FACT: MOS inherited a tire fire that no coach, not even Vince Lombardi, could have won with without a complete evaluation, teardown, and then rebuild of the roster.
NOPE: OPINION again. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 06:09:54 PM by TBURGESS » Logged

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TBURGESS
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« Reply #133 on: August 04, 2022, 06:08:08 PM »

Great quarterbacking didn't get the 2019 team to the big show, much less win it. Competent quarterbacking, as evidenced by the statistics in those three playoff games, certainly helped, as well as a couple of fantastic performances by the defense (WSF, GC) and a championship performance by a legendary tailback.

There goes the theory that a single QB made O'Shea great.
Competent QB'ing got us to 3rd in the West & it wouldn't have won us a playoff game. We'd have gone into Regina, cuz we wouldn't win the last last Calgary game, with a rookie starting QB and a beat up Streveler. As they came within a crossbar of taking it to OT with Collaros, I don't see them losing without Collaros.

There goes yet another MOS is great and always has been excuse.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #134 on: August 04, 2022, 06:12:19 PM »

yeah ok already....can we all agree that he's a good to great coach now?   This Merry go round dialogue is getting tiresome....now let's go get the Als and be 9-0 and set us up for the return match at home and be 10-0 going into our bye week!   Even if we went 18-0 this season and won a third Cup there are posters on here that might argue he wasn't a great coach.....
FTR: I agreed with that days ago and offered to stop.
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