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Author Topic: CBA negotiations  (Read 16135 times)
Blue In BC
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« Reply #360 on: May 24, 2022, 09:33:01 PM »

The CFL seems to word things from a league perspective.

I?m guessing the 450 cap reduction is actually 50k per team.

The million would also be divided across the league (bonuses based on some sort of seniority scale?).

Must be a league wide spend, so about $110K per team with a $50K reduction in SMS per team.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #361 on: May 24, 2022, 09:36:49 PM »

But you?d construct your roster differently. Teams would attempt to get Vets in those roles and any increase in their pay would come at the expenses of some of your Canadians. If Thomas and Woli can have their snaps cut in half, you could pay them less (or bring in cheaper players) and invest in Grant and [insert American tackle] to play those snaps.

SMS doesn't really work that way. Teams spend the SMS. Who gets what will vary team to team. A team with better than average Canadians will spend more on Canadians. Teams with a great QB will spend $550K for a great QB and there will be less to go around the rest of the roster.  IE: Lions in 2019 and 2021 with Reilly.

Rosters are different every season as free agents leave and new ones are signed. Some team free agents re-sign generally for more money than the previous year.

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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #362 on: May 25, 2022, 01:20:44 AM »

@TSNDaveNaylor
A rejection of the latest offer by @CFLPA and a decision to strike would result in teams no longer housing and feeding players. A rejection without a strike would see the league pull its offer and unclear where things would go from there.#CFL #CFLPA

@sportsdanbarnes
#CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie said if #CFLPA rejects new proposal, training camps will shut down. League will no longer house and feed players, as they had been doing during four-day work stoppage.

...Looks like if this offer is not accepted things get ugly.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #363 on: May 25, 2022, 02:29:06 AM »

The deal will get done.  Between the league conceding the 3-FAKENAT thing and sweetening the pot, and add in the fact that a whackton of IMPs didn't vote, this latest offer will be approved.  I would bet the farm on it.

No worries.  We play on Friday!
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GOLDMEMBER
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R.I.P. BLUE BONGER


« Reply #364 on: May 25, 2022, 01:22:58 PM »

The deal will get done.  Between the league conceding the 3-FAKENAT thing and sweetening the pot, and add in the fact that a whackton of IMPs didn't vote, this latest offer will be approved.  I would bet the farm on it.

No worries.  We play on Friday!

I hope you are right Tecno?.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #365 on: May 25, 2022, 03:27:16 PM »

There are rumours saying the PA won't have a vote before Friday...  if they are holding out for a return to 7 NAT + 1 Nationalized INT, that is just short sighted and to put it bluntly, dumb.

They got $1mil ratification bonus (depending on how that is split, $1500-3000/player), they lose 7 NAT starting jobs (but those players will still be on rosters), and maybe a scootch less bargaining power for having the right birth certificate.

At risk is everything, this contract offer is even better than the best one ever offered the CFLPA.  Voting it down, or not voting at all is risking killing games (lost revenue for all parties), and players losing fan support because not accepting this looks like 100% greed, with no respect for the game, the league, and the fans. 
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #366 on: May 25, 2022, 03:58:18 PM »

There are rumours saying the PA won't have a vote before Friday...  if they are holding out for a return to 7 NAT + 1 Nationalized INT, that is just short sighted and to put it bluntly, dumb.

They got $1mil ratification bonus (depending on how that is split, $1500-3000/player), they lose 7 NAT starting jobs (but those players will still be on rosters), and maybe a scootch less bargaining power for having the right birth certificate.

At risk is everything, this contract offer is even better than the best one ever offered the CFLPA.  Voting it down, or not voting at all is risking killing games (lost revenue for all parties), and players losing fan support because not accepting this looks like 100% greed, with no respect for the game, the league, and the fans. 

I agree. All wild speculation on my part coming up but it's fun to try. My guess is this is the league's best and final offer. If they vote no, or if the players try and stretch this out and politic their way to something different the league will lock them out. I think the league would prefer the ratio gone or dramatically reduced (like in their initial, initial offer) but are willing to do it incrementally over time. If the players hit the nuclear button it's going to hurt the league for sure so  they'll play their only card left which is to take things away from the players at regular intervals. They players don't have any leverage left, I don't think.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #367 on: May 25, 2022, 04:11:33 PM »

This is bad if both sides have found a hill to die on:

@TSNDaveNaylor
The @CFL says this is the best offer they will make. Will the players call their bluff? High drama as we move to the Thursday at midnight deadline. #CFL #CFLPA

@TSNDaveNaylor
The @CFL is concerned that @CFLPA  leadership may not put their latest offer to a vote of its membership. League is strongly encouraging them to do so. #CFL #CFLPA

@TSNDaveNaylor
Scenario brewing that would be very bad for an on-time start to the @2022 @CFLseason: If the @CFLPA leadership decides they won?t put league?s proposal to a vote of because it reduces 7 Canadian starters to 6, and if league won?t move off 6?well, we can all go home. #CFL #CFLPA

I can't believe that players would vote no just to protect a guy from maybe losing his starter's job to someone better. The CFL really is a second rate league if the players decide to do that as far as I'm concerned.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 04:18:43 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
gordo
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« Reply #368 on: May 25, 2022, 04:15:31 PM »

I agree. All wild speculation on my part coming up but it's fun to try. My guess is this is the league's best and final offer. If they vote no, or if the players try and stretch this out and politic their way to something different the league will lock them out. I think the league would prefer the ratio gone or dramatically reduced (like in their initial, initial offer) but are willing to do it incrementally over time. If the players hit the nuclear button it's going to hurt the league for sure so  they'll play their only card left which is to take things away from the players at regular intervals. They players don't have any leverage left, I don't think.

So pre-season game on Friday way up in the air.  Or have they made an announcement on it that I missed? I assume if they vote and settle by Thursday it's on.

I love the CFL but this is another shot in the foot. Wade Miller needs to be the next commissioner.  Amrosie always seems to be in over his head.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 04:17:16 PM by gordo » Logged
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #369 on: May 25, 2022, 04:17:03 PM »

So pre-season game on Friday way up in the air.  Or have they made an announcement on it that I missed? I assume if they vote and settle by Thursday it's on.

I love the CFL but this is another shot in the foot. Wade Miller needs to be the next commissioner.

Wade is on the negotiating team on behalf of the owners. His voice is heard. Pre-season games are up in the air, yes. Yesterday, we got timed media releases from Winnipeg and Calgary saying they were 'optimistic'. Ultimately it will come down to the vote (or non vote) of the players.
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gordo
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« Reply #370 on: May 25, 2022, 04:19:46 PM »

Wade is on the negotiating team on behalf of the owners. His voice is heard. Pre-season games are up in the air, yes. Yesterday, we got timed media releases from Winnipeg and Calgary saying they were 'optimistic'. Ultimately it will come down to the vote (or non vote) of the players.
So sounds like they won't decide to cancel until last possible minute to keep the game alive.  Could hear on Friday at 4PM the game is off (or on hopefully).
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #371 on: May 25, 2022, 04:22:56 PM »

So sounds like they won't decide to cancel until last possible minute to keep the game alive.  Could hear on Friday at 4PM the game is off (or on hopefully).


Yeah. League said they needed an answer by Thursday night. CFLPA sounds like they won't be ready with an answer until Friday. By definition that means the league will not move forward with the game.

Now the CFLPA might move the answer up before the league deadline or not. One team needs to put together or cancel travel plans, so you can't wait until 1/2 before game time.

As much as I want this game to go ahead, I think if the CFLPA stalls the game should be cancelled.

The next level caveat is that they provide an answer before the deadline but the answer is NO. Then what happens is a giant question.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 04:27:59 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #372 on: May 25, 2022, 04:25:57 PM »

So sounds like they won't decide to cancel until last possible minute to keep the game alive.  Could hear on Friday at 4PM the game is off (or on hopefully).


My guess is we'll know Friday morning, at the latest, maybe earlier if the league thinks the players are not going to vote or if the vote would be no. Realistically, there are so many moving parts to a CFL game (sponsors, fans, players, employees, buses, other partners like restaurants). It may be slightly toned down because of a pre-season game but only slightly.
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gordo
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« Reply #373 on: May 25, 2022, 04:31:24 PM »

Yeah. League said they needed an answer by Thursday night. CFLPA sounds like they won't be ready with an answer until Friday. By definition that means the league will not move forward with the game.

No the CFLPA might move the answer up before the league deadline or not. One team needs to put together or cancel travel plans, so you can't wait until 1/2 before game time.

As much as I want this game to go ahead, I think if the CFLPA stalls the game should be cancelled.

The next level caveat is that they provide an answer before the deadline but the answer is NO. Then what happens is a giant question.



Good point - Edmonton needs to travel so would need definitive answer for them by Thursday latest.  Based on your and Sir Blue posts I'm no longer optimistic we're going to enjoy our Bombers and 5 dollar beers on Friday.  Was really looking forward to it and forecasting 25C on Friday.
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the paw
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« Reply #374 on: May 25, 2022, 05:21:45 PM »

I can't believe the league and owners are willing to jeopardize the season for the sake of a single "naturalized national" position.  It is only token lip service to the "contributions of our American players" and it does literally nothing to improve the business case of the CFL.  The impact on the "quality of play" would be imperceptible.  One can only conclude they are trying to get the thin end of the wedge in here, as part of a strategy to keep chipping away at the ratio.

If they really wanted to value the contribution of veteran American players, why not add a stipulation that all DI positions must be veterans of at least 3 years?  That gives a tangible incentive to keep aging veterans who have some flexibility in positions.  it could extend the careers of guys like Charleston Hughes, or Ed Gainey, or William Powell. 

Honestly, if I had been the league, I think I would have come back with 7 Canadian starters, one nationalized American position, and a $2 million signing bonus.  I bet that would have passed with flying colours. 
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