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Author Topic: CBA negotiations  (Read 15700 times)
theaardvark
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« Reply #330 on: May 24, 2022, 03:21:33 PM »

News about the new proposal. A small raise the the salary cap leaves possible room at the end of the season for returning players from NFL for example. Everybody else already has a contract.

This new proposal has eliminated the clause allowing three ?nationalized Americans? to replace Canadian players for up to 49 percent of plays in a game. It also includes a small raise to the salary cap.

"Salary cap raise" is apparently a small amount distributed to the teams as a ratification bonus...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #331 on: May 24, 2022, 03:35:12 PM »

"Salary cap raise" is apparently a small amount distributed to the teams as a ratification bonus...

That would make more sense I suppose. Not unusual in new union contracts.  There was no mention of the 8th nationalized import that had to start in 2023 being eliminated?
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #332 on: May 24, 2022, 04:20:53 PM »

Yes, it is an erosion that would be sought to be built on in the next contract.

Erosion of the ratio is the right description, over time the ratio has been flipped, from allowing 5 imports on the field at one time, to today were it's almost the opposite.  Interesting that as early as 1952 they explored the "Naturalized Canadian" rule, a.k.a., the "Canadianized American".

Here is a brief history.

The rules on imports were wide open in the CFL?s formative years, until the Winnipeg Pegs became the first western team to win the Grey Cup in 1935 with eight imports on the roster, led by the legendary Fritzie Hanson.

Residency requirements were established the following year, which led to the 1936 western champ Regina Roughriders declining their trip to the Grey Cup rather than play without five key imports.

Finally in 1946, the Canadian Rugby Union ? the precursor to the CFL ? allowed five imports. In 1950, the limit was raised to seven. In 1952 it was changed again to allow seven imports as well as allowing Americans with four years of experience to be counted as non-imports.

In 1954 ? generally recognized as the start of the modern era of Canadian football ? the quota was raised to 10 non-imports. In 1955 the four year rule was scrapped but western teams carried 12 Americans. By 1959 both the Eastern Big Four and the Western Interprovincial Rugby Football Union were up to 12 Americans on a roster of 27.

A landmark decision was made in 1961 with the ?Naturalized Canadian? rule, a.k.a., the ?Canadianized American?. The rule granted non-import status to players who had acquired Canadian citizenship after five years of residency in the country. Essentially this meant that rosters were set at 34, with 15 imports.

Of course, teams started to take advantage of this rule, so in 1965 number of Naturalized Canadians on each roster was limited to three. However, one player who was released due to this new quota went marching off to the Ontario Human Rights Commission, which ruled that it was unlawful to discriminate employment based on citizenship, threatening all roster management.

Cue Bora Laskin, who was the Dean of Law at Osgoode Hall in Toronto, and later the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada. Laskin found a way out for the newly formed Canadian Football League. The solution was to base any distinction not on a player?s nationality, citizenship or residence but on his early football training.

If the training was received inside Canada, he was a ?non-import?. Outside of Canada, he was an ?import?. The definition has withstood challenges from the Canadian and Ontario Human Rights Commissions since 1965.

From there, through the 1970?s, the number of imports slowly crept upward. From 14 to 15 in 1972, to removing quarterbacks from the ratio mix in 1986 with the import number falling to 13, then edging its way upward to the present day of a roster ratios. Today teams are made up of 42 players, including three quarterbacks and 39 other players, of which 19 may be imports. Essentially this leaves teams with 22 imports total and only seven Canadian starters.

https://www.cfl.ca/2011/02/11/mullin-changing-the-game-the-ratio/
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 07:10:25 PM by Throw Long Bannatyne » Logged
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« Reply #333 on: May 24, 2022, 04:42:19 PM »

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« Reply #334 on: May 24, 2022, 05:25:30 PM »

News about the new proposal. A small raise the the salary cap leaves possible room at the end of the season for returning players from NFL for example. Everybody else already has a contract.

This new proposal has eliminated the clause allowing three ?nationalized Americans? to replace Canadian players for up to 49 percent of plays in a game. It also includes a small raise to the salary cap.

Hopefully it goes back to the 6:1 rule from the previous round of negotiating and not a total status quo.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #335 on: May 24, 2022, 05:41:29 PM »

I think the 49% rule is stupid and unworkable. I too hope they go back to 6:1 proposal.
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Jesse
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« Reply #336 on: May 24, 2022, 05:47:18 PM »

I've covered this in great detail in earlier posts. Imports are already starting. 16 of them + the QB for nearly every team. That leaves the DI's and most of those aren't on the roster for 3 years. Needing to nationalize one of those that's already starting changes nothing since there is a requirement to start 8 instead of 7. Bryant, Hardick, Bighill, Wilson, Alexander, Bailey, are going to be replaced by a Canadian due to an in game injury because the DI's don't generally fill those spots. Even if they did, they aren't more 3+ year nationalized imports. Next game an import off the PR would be activated.

In the case of the Bombers, Grant could qualify in 2023 if he stays with the team. The other DI's in 2022 could be Mourtada a 2nd year DT ( if not replaced by a rookie this season ) and a rookie DE.

In 2021 we had Brown and and a few imports that played a game or two. Now gone because veteran DI's if a team does roster them is a short term rental not a long term plan.

I understand that - hence the devaluation of Canadians and higher emphasis on Vet Americans.

Under old rules, Canadian salaries are inflated, making it hard to keep those extra Americans. If these new rules were kept, I can imagine a new emphasis on getting those vets onto the back half of the roster to exploit the ratio - which would cause an equivalent decrease in Canadian salaries.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #337 on: May 24, 2022, 05:50:17 PM »

I understand that - hence the devaluation of Canadians and higher emphasis on Vet Americans.

Under old rules, Canadian salaries are inflated, making it hard to keep those extra Americans. If these new rules were kept, I can imagine a new emphasis on getting those vets onto the back half of the roster to exploit the ratio - which would cause an equivalent decrease in Canadian salaries.

Most likely they will have gone from 7 starters to 6 after they finally sign. Almost got through 5 which would have been way better.

Imagine if there was no ratio and salaries were completely reliant on how good you are no matter where you went to high school or where your parents were born? Shudder. Imagine how unfair that would be for Canadian players.
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Jesse
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« Reply #338 on: May 24, 2022, 06:38:57 PM »

Most likely they will have gone from 7 starters to 6 after they finally sign. Almost got through 5 which would have been way better.

Imagine if there was no ratio and salaries were completely reliant on how good you are no matter where you went to high school or where your parents were born? Shudder. Imagine how unfair that would be for Canadian players.

Again - this is a national league - they exist all over the world.

We have a mandate that is completely separate from football. It is absolutely an objective to field the best team possible, but within a framework that protects and drives National interests.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #339 on: May 24, 2022, 06:40:26 PM »

@TSNDaveNaylor
Just spoke to commissioner @RandyAmbrosieand got details on @CFL?s new offer to players:
? league provides $1 million ratification bonus to players. But removes $450k from 2022 cap and $675 in guarantees in ?28. The ?28 cap may not be affected if revenue sharing kicks-in#CFL

@TSNDaveNaylor
League also proposes moving back to ratio model of 6 true Canadians and one Naturalized American. (Which was in their May 14th proposal). #CFL #CFLPA

@TSNDaveNaylor
Ambrosie said if latest offer rejected and games are missed, offer will suffer. ?There is no way we can get back to the quality of deal that we have on the table today.? #CFL #CFLPA

@TSNDaveNaylor
Deadline for players to accept latest offer is Thursday midnight ? Eastern time. #CFL #CFLPA
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #340 on: May 24, 2022, 06:44:22 PM »

Again - this is a national league - they exist all over the world.

We have a mandate that is completely separate from football. It is absolutely an objective to field the best team possible, but within a framework that protects and drives National interests.

What are you talking about? Who is "we"? What "mandate" are you you referring? From where does this "mandate" come from?
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Jesse
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« Reply #341 on: May 24, 2022, 06:46:06 PM »

I prefer the 6+1 to the other way - but it's still a compromise to the ratio. So we'll see how it plays out.

I didn't realize the bonus issue was a big deal, but I guess it pays players now as opposed to later when those who are currently voting may not be around. Might get those unsatisfied Americans on board.
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Jesse
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« Reply #342 on: May 24, 2022, 06:47:16 PM »

What are you talking about? Who is "we"? What "mandate" are you you referring? From where does this "mandate" come from?

Why do you think the ratio exists? Why do you think Government funds are used to build stadiums?
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #343 on: May 24, 2022, 06:52:39 PM »

I understand that - hence the devaluation of Canadians and higher emphasis on Vet Americans.

Under old rules, Canadian salaries are inflated, making it hard to keep those extra Americans. If these new rules were kept, I can imagine a new emphasis on getting those vets onto the back half of the roster to exploit the ratio - which would cause an equivalent decrease in Canadian salaries.

Have you looked at what we pay many of our starting imports?
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #344 on: May 24, 2022, 06:56:48 PM »

Why do you think the ratio exists? Why do you think Government funds are used to build stadiums?

You think the ratio exists because government(s) provided funds to build the stadium or stadiums around the country?

And the building the Jets now play in got funds (and continue to get $40M+ a year in tax breaks) because the AHL and NHL have a ratio or have I been overlooking that rule? Additionally, it is usually provincial governments who provide support to stadium/arena projects not Ottawa.

The only mandate(s) the league has is set by the league under the direction of Ambrosie. They aren't the government and they wrap their marketing in Canadiana because that's what historically has worked. It isn't working so good anymore.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 07:07:00 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
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