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Author Topic: CBA negotiations  (Read 22725 times)
Pete
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« Reply #300 on: May 24, 2022, 04:07:54 AM »

Its pretty obvious that the canadian ratio is what caused the nay vote Everything else is just window dressing. The fact remains that the players bargaining commitee and its reps supported the agreement, that it was shot down is a massive disconnect with ite members.
And yes I do blame the cfl players on this one and while we dont have the exact wording there has been enough reporting to indicate that this was a fair deal. Has there ever been an agreement put forward by the bargaining committee and supported by the reps in any league that was rejected in this manner?
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« Reply #301 on: May 24, 2022, 04:13:21 AM »

Keep the communication going...

CFLPA
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Attention #TeamCFLPA members, a new membership communication was just sent to all of you.
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #302 on: May 24, 2022, 04:18:42 AM »

No one here knows beans.  Only speculation.  Anyone read the actual CBA?  No?  Then sssshhhhh.

Something in there must have sucked big time for it to be voted down.  If Solly & Biggie et al liked it (enough) but the players didn't, then something must be rotten.

The league brought this on itself by purposely setting the CBA expiration at a week before TC.  It backfired, as for once the players grew a spine and said screw it.  The league now has egg on their face and will miss games at a time when everyone knows they can't.  I'll bet the league thinks twice before making this mistake again.

I'm with the players on this one.  Something in there got them angry enough to endanger the CFL and they stood up for themselves.  Good for them.  This isn't about the fans, it's between the league and the players.  To win at negotiations, you have to be willing to walk away.  The league thought the players would never, thus the CFPA always got bullied.  Now they've shown they will walk.  This only makes them stronger.

You know what's going to happen now?  The league will offer the players more of what they wanted on Tuesday, the players will make no more concessions, and they'll get it ratified as fast as possible.  The pain and pressure is on the league now.

For those dissing the Canadians here (like it's all their fault?)... I don't know what to say.

The useful discussion to have right now, is what are the things the league will cave on to get a deal?  I bet the 3-FAKENATs thing is dropped.  Future CBAs to be negotiated far earlier.  And maybe more ELC/cap money immediately in 2022.  It's too bad the CFPA doesn't better publicize their positions so we're not all guessing...

The next question, is how fast they can get it signed and play ball if the league caves to demands tomorrow.  Does this set us back only a week... or more?

I'm with you on this Techno....having been in bargaining sessions for a good dozen years....you have to show management that you're prepared to walk at some point.  I know we all want to watch football but players are finally standing up for themselves and I'm with them.  
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« Reply #303 on: May 24, 2022, 04:55:49 AM »

I'm with you on this Techno....having been in bargaining sessions for a good dozen years....you have to show management that you're prepared to walk at some point.  I know we all want to watch football but players are finally standing up for themselves and I'm with them.  

Not saying you are wrong, but,

- The players' committee worked out a deal that they negotiated and believed was a viable compromise to the players demands,

- The league has weathered a cancelled season and a reduced season and a resulting loss of fan interest and are still operating.

- The league is on the verge of a "regular" season with a fair level of excitement for a few of the previous "have-not" teams.

- It's been reported that 30+ percent of the players did not even vote on the package.

And you and others support the players?  The players made some gains in this package.  In the circumstances they cannot expect everything they ask for. given the above.  IMHO.
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CrazyCanuck89
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« Reply #304 on: May 24, 2022, 05:08:35 AM »

Not saying you are wrong, but,

- The players' committee worked out a deal that they negotiated and believed was a viable compromise to the players demands,

- The league has weathered a cancelled season and a reduced season and a resulting loss of fan interest and are still operating.

- The league is on the verge of a "regular" season with a fair level of excitement for a few of the previous "have-not" teams.

- It's been reported that 30+ percent of the players did not even vote on the package.

And you and others support the players?  The players made some gains in this package.  In the circumstances they cannot expect everything they ask for. given the above.  IMHO.

So the players who didn't vote, who's fault was that?

Just because you reps iron out a deal, doesn't make a fair deal.  Players, have the right to vote No, just like your average Joe.

Canadian players shouldn't have to stand by and be treated like second class citizens in their own country.  We all know that the league is dwindling away at the ratio slowly and will one day replace the Canadian players with cheap American talent, who will then one day also be replaced by younger, cheaper Americans.
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DM83
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« Reply #305 on: May 24, 2022, 07:40:45 AM »

Wow! You have passed me on the negative scale.
I don't think adding more Americans is the answer. They should actually go the other way. I mean imagine having players that live here year round, and you can see them in the community......yup love those old days.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #306 on: May 24, 2022, 09:42:11 AM »

So the players who didn't vote, who's fault was that?

Just because you reps iron out a deal, doesn't make a fair deal.  Players, have the right to vote No, just like your average Joe.

Canadian players shouldn't have to stand by and be treated like second class citizens in their own country.  We all know that the league is dwindling away at the ratio slowly and will one day replace the Canadian players with cheap American talent, who will then one day also be replaced by younger, cheaper Americans.

Second class citizens? Are you mad? They get every advantage and then some. The reason Americans are "cheaper" is because the rules artificially inflate the value of Canadians who actually make the product worse. The average fan couldn't tell you who the 5th , 6th and 7th Canadian starters on each team are.
 
Man, Canadians who play hockey have to earn their way. Nothing is given. They play in the NHL because they earned it. CFL players cannot say the same. Second class citizens? More like the most entitled, privileged citizens.

Shawn Gallant still thinks he's what makes the league great. 3/4 of the people on this forum (the Canadian diehards) would still have to look up what he played or how he did. It makes no sense to hold up the season or fight to keep the rules the same so more of him can play.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 09:48:31 AM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
Jesse
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« Reply #307 on: May 24, 2022, 11:03:29 AM »

Second class citizens? Are you mad? They get every advantage and then some. The reason Americans are "cheaper" is because the rules artificially inflate the value of Canadians who actually make the product worse. The average fan couldn't tell you who the 5th , 6th and 7th Canadian starters on each team are.
 
Man, Canadians who play hockey have to earn their way. Nothing is given. They play in the NHL because they earned it. CFL players cannot say the same. Second class citizens? More like the most entitled, privileged citizens.

Shawn Gallant still thinks he's what makes the league great. 3/4 of the people on this forum (the Canadian diehards) would still have to look up what he played or how he did. It makes no sense to hold up the season or fight to keep the rules the same so more of him can play.

The gripe is less about the "fringe Canadians" as you call them and more about salary.

The naturalized Canadian and snap sharing devalues Canadians and raises the value of vet Americans (As discussed on the forum, not many teams have 3 year vets in non-starting roles).

Justin Palardy talked about fighting for Canadian identity and what they're "owed financially".

Justin Sorenson brought up National sports leagues from other countries and how the ratio of nationals is usually much higher to help grow grass roots, keep jobs in the country, and keep money in the country local - not exporting it out.

These aren't bad points. No, they have little to do with what happens on the field - which upsets people trying to make us into the NFL - but given how much government assistance it takes to keep the league going, we need to consider the national implications.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #308 on: May 24, 2022, 11:41:49 AM »

The gripe is less about the "fringe Canadians" as you call them and more about salary.

The naturalized Canadian and snap sharing devalues Canadians and raises the value of vet Americans (As discussed on the forum, not many teams have 3 year vets in non-starting roles).

Justin Palardy talked about fighting for Canadian identity and what they're "owed financially".

Justin Sorenson brought up National sports leagues from other countries and how the ratio of nationals is usually much higher to help grow grass roots, keep jobs in the country, and keep money in the country local - not exporting it out.

These aren't bad points. No, they have little to do with what happens on the field - which upsets people trying to make us into the NFL - but given how much government assistance it takes to keep the league going, we need to consider the national implications.

Of course the value of American players will go up if you only have to start five Canadians. This would represent a shift closer to their true value, not an unfair advantage. Canadians get disproportionately high CFL salaries compared to their impact because there aren't enough of them. They are a scarce commodity, created artificially, because of the ratio rules. Making some of them compete with Americans so that the best player plays is scary to them because it's a competition they will likely lose. That in a nutshell is what is wrong with the CFL in my opinion.

The CBA, by the way, isn't even getting rid of those Canadians, the roster split remains intact. The league is just saying that teams should have the right to play in games the best player in 3 of the 8 national spots if the American has played in Canada for 5 (or same team for 3). Americans who play five years in Canada do as much for this league as most Canadians do.

Why would the league want that? Because the quality of the play would be better. Why wouldn't the Canadian players want that? Because the fringe would have to compete with Americans and their pay would be reflected more closely to their talent level.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 11:48:58 AM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
Waffler
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« Reply #309 on: May 24, 2022, 11:47:59 AM »

The player reps are out of touch with the players, at least the ones that vote. Who is anyone here to criticize unless you are a current player? They have time to fix it and there will be a season.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #310 on: May 24, 2022, 12:27:35 PM »

Wow! You have passed me on the negative scale.
I don't think adding more Americans is the answer. They should actually go the other way. I mean imagine having players that live here year round, and you can see them in the community......yup love those old days.

Your definition of "players living around here so you can see them in the community" is not a good one for the ratio or American debate, but let's go down that road with one modicum of common sense for a second so you can see how foolish it is:

1) Justin Jefferson and Adam Bighill live in Winnipeg year round. They are Americans.
2) Michel Couture lives in BC and Drew Wolistarsky lives in California. They are nationals.

It is just so stupid.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 12:31:59 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #311 on: May 24, 2022, 12:40:03 PM »

Your definition of "players living around here so you can see them in the community" is not a good one for the ratio or American debate, but let's go down that road with one modicum of common sense for a second so you can see how foolish it is:

1) Justin Jefferson and Adam Bighill live in Winnipeg year round. They are Americans.
2) Michel Couture lives in BC and Drew Wolistarsky lives in California. They are nationals.

It is just so stupid.

Willie does not live near full time. He only arrived in winnipeg in April. This is what he told me 2 weeks ago in person.
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Jesse
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« Reply #312 on: May 24, 2022, 12:46:20 PM »

Your definition of "players living around here so you can see them in the community" is not a good one for the ratio or American debate, but let's go down that road with one modicum of common sense for a second so you can see how foolish it is:

1) Justin Jefferson and Adam Bighill live in Winnipeg year round. They are Americans.
2) Michel Couture lives in BC and Drew Wolistarsky lives in California. They are nationals.

It is just so stupid.


You are cherry picking examples. And they aren't even good ones as Jefferson literaly just moved here. We have no idea what his long term plans are.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #313 on: May 24, 2022, 01:00:25 PM »

Willie does not live near full time. He only arrived in winnipeg in April. This is what he told me 2 weeks ago in person.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/welcome-to-winterpeg-willie-576394452.html

"Winnipeg is a nice city. It?s a nice atmosphere to grow your family, extend your family, and just do some things to grow as individuals. I like the city, the city likes me and my family, and I don?t necessarily want to go anywhere. Right now, Winnipeg is home." - Willie Jefferson
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 01:02:40 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #314 on: May 24, 2022, 01:01:06 PM »

You are cherry picking examples. And they aren't even good ones as Jefferson literaly just moved here. We have no idea what his long term plans are.

You are right. He did JUST move here. But he did move here. Which means he is much more of a full time resident than a whole bunch of nationals on our roster. I prefaced the whole thing by saying it's not a good way to evaluate status, but even if you do, it's wrong.
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