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Author Topic: CBA negotiations  (Read 22712 times)
Blue In BC
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« Reply #240 on: May 19, 2022, 01:57:40 PM »

Using the 2022 roster, can somebody come up with an example of this in functional practice? I don't see how it works if there is a " snap count " limit.
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the paw
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« Reply #241 on: May 19, 2022, 02:02:24 PM »

The new ratio rule will be a nightmare to track and enforce.  Any penalty will only be applied as a fine after the game when snap counts are determined.  It is a cumbersome effort to split the difference between a disastrous ratio reduction and the status quo.  It might be more palatable if he simultaneously reduce or eliminate DIs, but that is me speculating.

In practical terms, it would shake out something like this.  You can now platoon Jake Thomas with Ricky Walker, so defensive snaps for Jesse Briggs disappear.  You can now drop wolitarsky for a TE or h-back who is primarily a blocker, and platoon him with someone like Saunders or Janarion Grant on passing downs.  You can now cut Johnny Augustine in favor of an American tailback who platoons with Olivera (who will see fewer snaps).  

Its not the worst case scenario, and I will reserve final judgement until I see the language, but I bet this is revised 2 years into the agreement because it is so cumbersome.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #242 on: May 19, 2022, 02:19:57 PM »

Sounds like it starts with 8 Nats in 2023... including a NATionalized Int...

Regardless, we have a year to figure out the actual who's what's and where's of it, for now it is business as normal.

It will mean Nats lose a bit of negotiating power... and vet Int DI's might gain a little...  the 40/51 rule will eliminate INT starters from being Nationalized...

Extending healthcare for 3 years post career to 5 is great for the players. 

7 year term means stability...
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #243 on: May 19, 2022, 02:21:24 PM »

The new ratio rule will be a nightmare to track and enforce.  Any penalty will only be applied as a fine after the game when snap counts are determined.  It is a cumbersome effort to split the difference between a disastrous ratio reduction and the status quo.  It might be more palatable if he simultaneously reduce or eliminate DIs, but that is me speculating.

In practical terms, it would shake out something like this.  You can now platoon Jake Thomas with Ricky Walker, so defensive snaps for Jesse Briggs disappear.  You can now drop wolitarsky for a TE or h-back who is primarily a blocker, and platoon him with someone like Saunders or Janarion Grant on passing downs.  You can now cut Johnny Augustine in favor of an American tailback who platoons with Olivera (who will see fewer snaps).  

Its not the worst case scenario, and I will reserve final judgement until I see the language, but I bet this is revised 2 years into the agreement because it is so cumbersome.

The nationlized imports are still imports. There is no increase in that combined group. The nationalized player that has to " start " might work in the Walker example if he or Sayles are with the team in 2023. That's not a given.

Grant is a 3rd player but he's not going to see 51% of plays on offence unless there is an in game injury.

This rule is nuts.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #244 on: May 19, 2022, 02:23:34 PM »

Sounds like it starts with 8 Nats in 2023... including a NATionalized Int...

Regardless, we have a year to figure out the actual who's what's and where's of it, for now it is business as normal.

It will mean Nats lose a bit of negotiating power... and vet Int DI's might gain a little...  the 40/51 rule will eliminate INT starters from being Nationalized...

Extending healthcare for 3 years post career to 5 is great for the players. 

7 year term means stability...


That's the problem. There are only 4 imports that aren't starters and they are DI's.  Many DI's don't often survive into year 3.
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« Reply #245 on: May 19, 2022, 02:37:06 PM »

The CFL announced today it is rescheduling the pre-season game between the Saskatchewan Roughriders and the visiting Winnipeg Blue Bombers that had been planned for Monday, May 23 to a new date and time: Tuesday, May 31 at 6:30 p.m. local/8:30 p.m. ET.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #246 on: May 19, 2022, 02:42:20 PM »

The CFL announced today it is rescheduling the pre-season game between the Saskatchewan Roughriders and the visiting Winnipeg Blue Bombers that had been planned for Monday, May 23 to a new date and time: Tuesday, May 31 at 6:30 p.m. local/8:30 p.m. ET.

Hopefully TSN can still do it! Edit: the answer is yes! https://www.tsn.ca/2021-cfl-on-tsn-broadcast-schedule-1.1655021

TSN broadcast schedule just got updated!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 02:44:37 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
theaardvark
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« Reply #247 on: May 19, 2022, 02:45:38 PM »

That's the problem. There are only 4 imports that aren't starters and they are DI's.  Many DI's don't often survive into year 3.

Exactly, which is why it will need a year to figure out how to best take advantage of this. 
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the paw
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« Reply #248 on: May 19, 2022, 04:09:50 PM »

That's the problem. There are only 4 imports that aren't starters and they are DI's.  Many DI's don't often survive into year 3.

The more I think about it, the more logical it is that the "nationalized Americans" replace the DIs.  So, even thought there is a loss of snap count, there isn't a roster reduction in the number of Canadians.  If you had nationalized Americans plus DI's, then you would have to shrink the number of rostered Canadians, and I don't think that's the case (it would be bad if it was).

In effect, that might mean the nationalized Americans become spots where you play super versatile veterans.  They can split reps with a CDN starter, and then come in as a DI for another American.  So, for example, you could have a veteran DT splitting reps with Jake Thomas, but if Sayles needs a rest, that vet can come in for him. 

Or you could have a veteran DB like Nick Taylor or Mercy Maston be splitting reps with the new CDN DB Rene, but they could also slide in and replace Kyrie Taylor if you wanted to go into a dime situation in 2nd and long. 

I'm still not crazy about the loss of Canadian reps or the enforceability, but at least I can see the logic a little more clearly now. 
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #249 on: May 19, 2022, 04:29:32 PM »

First thing I'd like to know is how the snap count actually works. Is it 49% of the defensive snaps for a defensive player or 49% of all the snaps in the game? If it's all the snaps, then the Yankee NI could play the whole game without going over 50% unless the defence is on the field for more snaps than the offence.

Are the Yankee NI's simply DI's who can come on for either NI's or Imports?
Are they part time starters who share their snaps with a real NI? (I can't believe I have to call them that)


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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #250 on: May 19, 2022, 04:34:23 PM »

Who pushed for this rule change, the CFL or the PA?
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #251 on: May 19, 2022, 04:50:02 PM »

The more I think about it, the more logical it is that the "nationalized Americans" replace the DIs.  So, even thought there is a loss of snap count, there isn't a roster reduction in the number of Canadians.  If you had nationalized Americans plus DI's, then you would have to shrink the number of rostered Canadians, and I don't think that's the case (it would be bad if it was).

In effect, that might mean the nationalized Americans become spots where you play super versatile veterans.  They can split reps with a CDN starter, and then come in as a DI for another American.  So, for example, you could have a veteran DT splitting reps with Jake Thomas, but if Sayles needs a rest, that vet can come in for him. 

Or you could have a veteran DB like Nick Taylor or Mercy Maston be splitting reps with the new CDN DB Rene, but they could also slide in and replace Kyrie Taylor if you wanted to go into a dime situation in 2nd and long. 

I'm still not crazy about the loss of Canadian reps or the enforceability, but at least I can see the logic a little more clearly now. 

I still don't get it. You can only start 12 on offence or defence. Now we have to start an extra Nationalized American to make the starting 8. At the start of the game he's going to have to replace an import that would have already been starting.

If it were just to maintain the 7 Canadian starters then that would be doable. Changing it to 8 is an issue IMO.

The using DI's theory has too many flaws. The first being is that they aren't already starting. The 2nd is that not many DI's exist as 3rd year players.

Look at our DI's from 2021: Grant, Moutada, Brown and a few guys that played at times from the PR ( now gone ) except Houston.

ALSO: Globals can only replace imports. Now we have to consider whether the import is a Nationalized import or just an import.
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Jesse
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« Reply #252 on: May 19, 2022, 05:05:24 PM »

First thing I'd like to know is how the snap count actually works. Is it 49% of the defensive snaps for a defensive player or 49% of all the snaps in the game? If it's all the snaps, then the Yankee NI could play the whole game without going over 50% unless the defence is on the field for more snaps than the offence.

Are the Yankee NI's simply DI's who can come on for either NI's or Imports?
Are they part time starters who share their snaps with a real NI? (I can't believe I have to call them that)




I guess you would have to designate the NI that the American is replacing. And compare snaps at the end of the game.

My question though: Can it be a shady practice where you put random american X at DE, and then put Jeffcoat or Jefferson (who fit the naturalized canadian criteria) in to replace Jake Thomas.
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Pete
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« Reply #253 on: May 19, 2022, 05:08:34 PM »

While there is 8 canadian starters, 1 of which will be an nationalized american , so in effect you still have 7 canadian starters.
For the other 3 nationalized americans according to dave naylor, the 49% of snaps may be cumalative over the season and not done on a game by game basis. It does look like you would have to utilize a veteran import in this role and one that is not needed as a full time player . It might mean less import rookies as DI
As far as putting a jeffcoat/jefferson in that role ,,then they could only play 49% of snaps.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 05:10:33 PM by Pete » Logged
3rdand1.5
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« Reply #254 on: May 19, 2022, 05:50:31 PM »

I guess you would have to designate the NI that the American is replacing. And compare snaps at the end of the game.

My question though: Can it be a shady practice where you put random american X at DE, and then put Jeffcoat or Jefferson (who fit the naturalized canadian criteria) in to replace Jake Thomas.

That's kinda what I was asking earlier...hypothetically if the 49/51 is cumulative you could get away with playing Thomas (and I don't mean this as a knock on him) in a nothing game the last game of the season, then use Jeffcoat and Jefferson only in the Western Final as an example as long as the cumulative total equals less than 49% of snaps.

...and say using my example if you win the West final as an example and after the game it is determined that you used an American too much what happens? Can't replay the game, can't forfeit, if it's a fine, well a fine to help your chances of getting into the cup.....
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