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Author Topic: CBA negotiations  (Read 15719 times)
The Zipp
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Who gives a flying Buck...


« Reply #90 on: May 14, 2022, 09:28:34 PM »

Sounds like a strike is imminent, and that will not be good for the CFL.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #91 on: May 14, 2022, 09:45:48 PM »

Current: Minimum 21 NI's, 7 guaranteed starters.
Offer: 20 or 21 NI's, 6 guaranteed Starters.

Current: 2 QB's, NI QB is only an NI if he starts.
Offer: 3 QB's, NI QB is only an NI if he starts.

Current: Max 20 American's.
Offer: 19 American's. 1 of which, who has 4 years with the league or 3 years with the same team is a designated NI.

Offer: If 1 Global then 21 NI's & no NI jobs lost. If 2 Globals then 20 NI's and 1 NI job lost.

My take:

I hate the designated American NI. If the Yankee NI gets hurt they will have to be replaced by a real NI to keep the ratio. If they drop the guaranteed NI starters by 1 he could be replaced by either a DI or an NI.

Lets see if the Players accept it.
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Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.
gobombersgo
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« Reply #92 on: May 14, 2022, 10:43:00 PM »

Current: Minimum 21 NI's, 7 guaranteed starters.
Offer: 20 or 21 NI's, 6 guaranteed Starters.

Current: 2 QB's, NI QB is only an NI if he starts.
Offer: 3 QB's, NI QB is only an NI if he starts.

Current: Max 20 American's.
Offer: 19 American's. 1 of which, who has 4 years with the league or 3 years with the same team is a designated NI.

Offer: If 1 Global then 21 NI's & no NI jobs lost. If 2 Globals then 20 NI's and 1 NI job lost.

My take:

I hate the designated American NI. If the Yankee NI gets hurt they will have to be replaced by a real NI to keep the ratio. If they drop the guaranteed NI starters by 1 he could be replaced by either a DI or an NI.

Lets see if the Players accept it.

Last season they implemented a new rule where a veteran American could replace an injured starting National. I didn't like the rule as it just further complicates the roster and some teams like Hamilton abused the rule.

Hopefully they get ride of it in the new CBA.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #93 on: May 14, 2022, 10:44:08 PM »

Current: Minimum 21 NI's, 7 guaranteed starters.
Offer: 20 or 21 NI's, 6 guaranteed Starters.

Current: 2 QB's, NI QB is only an NI if he starts.
Offer: 3 QB's, NI QB is only an NI if he starts.

Current: Max 20 American's.
Offer: 19 American's. 1 of which, who has 4 years with the league or 3 years with the same team is a designated NI.

Offer: If 1 Global then 21 NI's & no NI jobs lost. If 2 Globals then 20 NI's and 1 NI job lost.

My take:

I hate the designated American NI. If the Yankee NI gets hurt they will have to be replaced by a real NI to keep the ratio. If they drop the guaranteed NI starters by 1 he could be replaced by either a DI or an NI.

Lets see if the Players accept it.

I don't like the idea of the designated American NI either. Every team will have one and it effectively eliminates 1 Canadian player. I say that even though I'm an anti ratio guy.

Adding an extra import starter if fine with me but why go to a work around to create a Designated American? Most teams will roster 3 import QB's and 4 DI's bringing the total to 23. It's ridiculous to call one of the Americans ( probably the QB ) a NI when he's not.

Regardless I still don't see any reason the CFLPA wouldn't accept the offer. OTOH reports are that talks have broken off?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2022, 10:48:22 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

2019 Grey Cup Champions
TecnoGenius
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« Reply #94 on: May 14, 2022, 11:04:31 PM »

.....and yet the Elks double all reasonable expectations of what a CFL receiver could earn by signing Lawler to a $300k/season contract, this coming after the worst season of attendance in their history....I'm not sure the CFL ever learns from it's lessons.  It's somewhat like watching a friend go out and blow $100k on a luxury auto while being underwater on a huge mortgage.

The highest-paid SB in recent memory was who, D.Walker (but not in SSK)?  I thought he was earning $220k?  $250k?  Someone can help me out here... but top WRs were already seeing close to $250k.

Yes, $50k above that to $300k for Lawler is a bit crazy, however $50k jump is incomparable to the $200k-$250k jump M.Reilly got over the next-highest paid QB at the time (BLM?).  $50k is a cap burp.  $250k ruins your whole cap.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #95 on: May 14, 2022, 11:06:06 PM »

Last season they implemented a new rule where a veteran American could replace an injured starting National. I didn't like the rule as it just further complicates the roster and some teams like Hamilton abused the rule.

I was looking (hoping) for "abuse" of that in 2021 but I don't recall seeing any?  Nothing mentioned here on this forum anyway(?).  Can you let me know how HAM abused it?  AFAIK and remember I didn't see any team making use of it.  Certainly WPG didn't... we always seemed to have 7 starting (real) NATs on field, never a fake-NAT.
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Never go full Rider!
TecnoGenius
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« Reply #96 on: May 14, 2022, 11:12:11 PM »

https://www.cfl.ca/2022/05/14/a-letter-from-commissioner-randy-ambrosie-to-cfl-fans-players/

3. Minimum salary increases twice. Once in 2023 to $70K and to $75K in 2027. You think there would be annual raises between 2023 and 2027 rather than  3 years with no raise?

CFLPA should publicly release their position, too.  The league position seems reasonable.  If CFLPA holds out, we should know why.  I'm sure they would have their (good) reasons.

My take: fake-NAT change is fine with me.  Limiting it to 1 player actually seems like a good idea.  Less complicated.  As someone already said, it's not a panacea as he would have to be spelled/injury-replaced by a real-NAT anyhow.  For us, we probably wouldn't make Bryant or Yoshi our 1 guy.  Best to do it at a position we have ample NAT talent as backup.  Maybe Bailey or Alexander?

As for min salary, the increase is pretty weak given that reported inflation (CPI) is over 8% per year (that they admit to) and will not drop any time soon.  They are offering 8% increase every 4-ish years when you need 8% per year just to keep up with inflation?  What if inflation goes to 15%?  Your $70k ELC will look horrific.  Any wage increase should be tied to COLA/CPI.
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Never go full Rider!
gobombersgo
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« Reply #97 on: May 14, 2022, 11:19:34 PM »

I was looking (hoping) for "abuse" of that in 2021 but I don't recall seeing any?  Nothing mentioned here on this forum anyway(?).  Can you let me know how HAM abused it?  AFAIK and remember I didn't see any team making use of it.  Certainly WPG didn't... we always seemed to have 7 starting (real) NATs on field, never a fake-NAT.

For a couple of games Hamilton started a National offensive lineman. A few plays later he would be replaced with arguably a more skilled American.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #98 on: May 14, 2022, 11:23:09 PM »

For a couple of games Hamilton started a National offensive lineman. A few plays later he would be replaced with arguably a more skilled American.

Did they at least fake an injury?  I'm pretty sure the rule was tied to "injury".  Did they fake it on-field or just say "dude is on the bench with injury"?

Surprised the much-vaunted "Coach O" would permit such chicanery.  Austin, sure... but "O" is supposed to walk on water.  Thanks for the deets.
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Never go full Rider!
Jesse
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« Reply #99 on: May 14, 2022, 11:28:25 PM »

CFLPA should publicly release their position, too.  The league position seems reasonable.  If CFLPA holds out, we should know why.  I'm sure they would have their (good) reasons.

My take: fake-NAT change is fine with me.  Limiting it to 1 player actually seems like a good idea.  Less complicated.  As someone already said, it's not a panacea as he would have to be spelled/injury-replaced by a real-NAT anyhow.  For us, we probably wouldn't make Bryant or Yoshi our 1 guy.  Best to do it at a position we have ample NAT talent as backup.  Maybe Bailey or Alexander?

As for min salary, the increase is pretty weak given that reported inflation (CPI) is over 8% per year (that they admit to) and will not drop any time soon.  They are offering 8% increase every 4-ish years when you need 8% per year just to keep up with inflation?  What if inflation goes to 15%?  Your $70k ELC will look horrific.  Any wage increase should be tied to COLA/CPI.


Seems like the league is trying to hide revenue. Not counting Grey Cup profits or concessions in the pie.
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My wife is amazing!
Big Daddy
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« Reply #100 on: May 14, 2022, 11:35:21 PM »

Any wage increase should be tied to COLA/CPI.

[/quote]

If the incoming revenue could be guaranteed tied to the rate of COLA/CPI, I would agree.

The problem with the expectations of the players being given at least a reasonable increase is that there is no guarantee revenue is going up.  So the league offers 25% of revenue increase (above an agreed upon threshold) to the players at least addresses the situation if there is good growth.

Not all teams even broke even last year, and that was with huge concessions in salary.  Add to that, no team made money in the lost season, and presumably are still trying to stay afloat.

This league isn't a license to print money like the NFL, as everyone here knows.  Is it realistic to expect teams that have lost a lot of money over the past few years (or decades) to commit to increases with little reason to think the revenue will increase according to inflation?

And by the way, not all jobs have salary increases consistent with inflation.  Some in health care have had annual increases 0, 0 and 1% as a contract, which was in place long before covid came along.
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gobombersgo
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« Reply #101 on: May 14, 2022, 11:40:02 PM »

Did they at least fake an injury?  I'm pretty sure the rule was tied to "injury".  Did they fake it on-field or just say "dude is on the bench with injury"?

Surprised the much-vaunted "Coach O" would permit such chicanery.  Austin, sure... but "O" is supposed to walk on water.  Thanks for the deets.


Yeah, the guy was legit injured. He wouldn't have been rostered if not for the rule in place.
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gobombersgo
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« Reply #102 on: May 15, 2022, 12:43:00 AM »

Seems like the league is trying to hide revenue. Not counting Grey Cup profits or concessions in the pie.
Grey Cup profits go to the host team. It's a chance for them off set their losses from seasons they don't host the game. I have no problem with the Grey Cup being excluded.

What the players should be asking for (and I'm not sure if they did) is an increase in playoff money. The current payouts haven't increased for a few years now.
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Jesse
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« Reply #103 on: May 15, 2022, 12:43:58 AM »

Grey Cup profits go to the host team. It's a chance for them off set their losses from seasons they don't host the game. I have no problem with the Grey Cup being excluded.

What the players should be asking for (and I'm not sure if they did) is an increase in playoff money. The current payouts haven't increased for a few years now.

I believe the host team has to buy the game from the league.
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My wife is amazing!
ModAdmin
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Blue Bombers and Fans


« Reply #104 on: May 15, 2022, 01:00:37 AM »

Letter sent by the Commissioner to the players..,

Dear CFL Players:

This document summarizes the CFL's offer that was presented to the union today, for your consideration.

It?s designed to build a true partnership with you, our talented, hard working, community minded CFL players.

It increases total player compensation by more than $24 million over the term of the agreement ? plus an opportunity to share in revenue increases as we successfully work together to grow the league.

It protects jobs for Canadian players, the bedrock of the CFL.

It offers partially guaranteed contracts, for the first time in our league?s history.

It recognizes the contribution of veteran Americans, with a new opportunity to extend their careers with their team, without restricting free agency in any way.

It includes two increases in the league?s minimum salary.

It provides certainty and stability, with a 7-year-term.

Here are the details:

* $18.9 million in total guaranteed increases to the salary cap league-wide.

* $5.94 million in guaranteed compensation paid for community outreach and promotional appearances league-wide.

* An opportunity for twenty-five per cent of all revenue growth over an agreed upon threshold, to be added to the salary cap starting in 2023.

* Clubs would be permitted to re-sign their veterans to partially guaranteed contracts, a first for the CFL.

* A club would be allowed to choose one American player (non-quarterback), who has been in the league for at least four years or has played with the same team for at least three years, who would be considered a Nationalized American.

* This one Nationalized American would count as a National on the roster. He would join 20 or 21 Canadians who also count as Nationals on the roster.

* Each roster would have a minimum of seven National starters. This would include at least six Canadian players. The seventh starter could be either the Nationalized American or an additional Canadian.

* The roster would also include three quarterbacks of any nationality, 19 Americans and up to two Global players.

* A starting Canadian quarterback would count as a National (Canadian).

* These roster changes would kick in as of 2023.

* The minimum salary would increase to $70,000 in 2023 and $75,000 in 2027.

* An updated Code of Conduct that applies to all members of the CFL Community, including fans, instead of just players.

* A seat for your union on the Board of CFL Ventures, the commercial arm of the league, will allow us to work together on marketing our league and building our business.

An agreement based on this offer helps everyone across the CFL. Fans can expect improved roster continuity, something that has been a top priority for them for years. Our clubs will be able to consistently market their star players, with more confidence they could re-sign.

But this is about you and your career, first and foremost. That's why this offer protects roster spots for our great Canadian players who mean so much to the CFL, it celebrates the veteran American players who have built careers here, and it includes increases for all players, including players paid the league minimum.

This is a win-win offer. It creates a stronger partnership, so we can work together to further improve our game and build our business. And it comes at a critical time. Our league, our clubs, and especially our players have been through so much during the pandemic. We turned the corner in 2021, working together to get back on the field. Now we have an opportunity to accelerate towards a brighter future.

Let's seize that opportunity, together.

Commissioner Randy Ambrosie
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 01:04:06 AM by ModAdmin » Logged

"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden
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