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Author Topic: CBA negotiations  (Read 15763 times)
Jesse
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« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2022, 10:16:15 PM »

Why is the CFLPA negotiating in the media?  That leads to nothing good.

Starting QB's not attending voluntary sessions is not unusual or that big a deal.

A couple of key reasons that I can determine:

1. They have no power. Their membership will cave easily if there is a stoppage and players don't start getting paid. So they need to get fans on their side to create some pressure on the league.

2. I think because of the transience of the league, they don't have contact information for many members - and this is honestly a practical way of getting information out to players.

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2022, 10:40:38 PM »

A couple of key reasons that I can determine:

1. They have no power. Their membership will cave easily if there is a stoppage and players don't start getting paid. So they need to get fans on their side to create some pressure on the league.

2. I think because of the transience of the league, they don't have contact information for many members - and this is honestly a practical way of getting information out to players.



Perhaps. Nobody needs another season of no season or a reduced schedule. It not good for the players, the league or the fans.
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Jesse
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« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2022, 10:49:13 PM »

Perhaps. Nobody needs another season of no season or a reduced schedule. It not good for the players, the league or the fans.

No one wants that.

But the owners are using that to make egregious demands so the players are forced to use whatever leverage they have.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2022, 10:55:44 PM »

Why is the CFLPA negotiating in the media?  That leads to nothing good.

Starting QB's not attending voluntary sessions is not unusual or that big a deal.

I wish they would change the timeline and sit down to negotiations right after the G.C. and hammer out a deal ideally before Christmas or end of Jan. at the latest, leaving negotiations to the last minute is such a bad plan.
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Jesse
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« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2022, 11:08:46 PM »

I wish they would change the timeline and sit down to negotiations right after the G.C. and hammer out a deal ideally before Christmas or end of Jan. at the latest, leaving negotiations to the last minute is such a bad plan.

It's 100% intentional. They want to get players in the cities so they are unable to travel home and just vote to sign as opposed to strike.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2022, 11:36:20 PM »

It's 100% intentional. They want to get players in the cities so they are unable to travel home and just vote to sign as opposed to strike.

If the CFLPA doesn't want to cede the CFL all the power in negotiations, THEY would demand the CBA gets done ASAP after the GC... it is on them for leaving it until they have no power...

The CFL head office and teams front offices are full of season lawyers and negotiators.  The CFLPA is not...

It is unfortunate, but the CFLPA represents players that make a total of less than $50mil/year.  They don't have the resources to hire the big guns, they are manned by current and past players.  Not saying they aren't good people, but its really not a fair fight. 

Not sure if there is anything in the CBA about the league funding the CFLPA, but that would be a great thing for them to add, a budget that would allow them to hire top notch representation to negotiate.  Getting a small percentage of the SMS cap direct from the league would be a lot easier than trying to rake it out in member fees... and more equitable.
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Jesse
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« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2022, 11:53:55 PM »

If the CFLPA doesn't want to cede the CFL all the power in negotiations, THEY would demand the CBA gets done ASAP after the GC... it is on them for leaving it until they have no power...

The CFL head office and teams front offices are full of season lawyers and negotiators.  The CFLPA is not...

It is unfortunate, but the CFLPA represents players that make a total of less than $50mil/year.  They don't have the resources to hire the big guns, they are manned by current and past players.  Not saying they aren't good people, but its really not a fair fight. 

Not sure if there is anything in the CBA about the league funding the CFLPA, but that would be a great thing for them to add, a budget that would allow them to hire top notch representation to negotiate.  Getting a small percentage of the SMS cap direct from the league would be a lot easier than trying to rake it out in member fees... and more equitable.

They demand all off season, the league doesn?t come to the table until the week before TC. Happens every time.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2022, 12:05:24 AM »

They demand all off season, the league doesn?t come to the table until the week before TC. Happens every time.

Again, pretty poor negotiating if you can't get the other side to the table.  If the CFL won't come to the table, you just tell them you won't be coming to the table if negotiations aren't started by Jan 1.  Fire off your opening offer, and if they do not respond, or at least at the table by then, its strike time.   

If the CFL plays hard ball, you have to play it harder...
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« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2022, 03:36:53 AM »

John Hodge
@JohnDHodge
Per sources, the CFLPA has scheduled a meeting with team player reps for Monday afternoon.

They will update reps on the status of CBA negotiations before communicating with the entire membership later on Monday.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2022, 12:32:38 PM »

Negotiations are adversarial by nature.

Starting negotiations with a stupid offer makes it significantly harder to get any contract signed, sealed and delivered. It's not hardball. It's a terrible negotiating tactic.

The players have as much power as management. No players = no games = no revenue = big losses for both sides.

When negotiations stall, going to the media can get them going again. The players releasing the offer info was a smart move in my mind. I'm sure that most fans are on their side right now.
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the paw
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« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2022, 02:39:57 PM »

Again, pretty poor negotiating if you can't get the other side to the table.  If the CFL won't come to the table, you just tell them you won't be coming to the table if negotiations aren't started by Jan 1.  Fire off your opening offer, and if they do not respond, or at least at the table by then, its strike time.   

If the CFL plays hard ball, you have to play it harder...

You are way out of your depth again, making stuff up as you go along. 

An employee group that isn't currently "in production" has absolutely no leverage to bring the employer to the table during the off season.  You can't withdraw your labour, you can't work to rule, all you can do is play the public relations game. 

You can't just start striking whenever you feel like it.  The term of the agreement according to the 2019 CBA is until May 31st or the first day of training camp.  The players aren't even in a legal position to strike before then, even if "striking" before training camp actually meant something. 

It isn't a question of "playing harder".  Negotiations are about leverage and finding mutual interest.  The power relationship is not equal, and the owners have a long history of squeezing the players as hard as they can.  They do that by taking it down to the wire.  If players are willing to not report, then the owners have to decide if they want to risk losing a whole or partial season.   
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theaardvark
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« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2022, 02:56:01 PM »

You are way out of your depth again, making stuff up as you go along. 

An employee group that isn't currently "in production" has absolutely no leverage to bring the employer to the table during the off season.  You can't withdraw your labour, you can't work to rule, all you can do is play the public relations game. 

You can't just start striking whenever you feel like it.  The term of the agreement according to the 2019 CBA is until May 31st or the first day of training camp.  The players aren't even in a legal position to strike before then, even if "striking" before training camp actually meant something. 

It isn't a question of "playing harder".  Negotiations are about leverage and finding mutual interest.  The power relationship is not equal, and the owners have a long history of squeezing the players as hard as they can.  They do that by taking it down to the wire.  If players are willing to not report, then the owners have to decide if they want to risk losing a whole or partial season.  

Leverage.  Exactly my point.

The CFLPA had members give them authorization to strike.  They did that this week.  They could have done that Jan 1.  So that the CFL knew that training camps would not open without a CBA in place.  All the things the CFLPA is doing now to apply leverage could have been done months ago. 

Making the CBA expire after rookie camps start is silly.  CBA should expire in February, giving them 2 months post GC to get it done, and before FA and draft, where CBA changes might make large differences in contracts offered and players chased. 

Negotiations are adversarial by nature.

Starting negotiations with a stupid offer makes it significantly harder to get any contract signed, sealed and delivered. It's not hardball. It's a terrible negotiating tactic.

The players have as much power as management. No players = no games = no revenue = big losses for both sides.

When negotiations stall, going to the media can get them going again. The players releasing the offer info was a smart move in my mind. I'm sure that most fans are on their side right now.

Yup, these offers, from both sides, are nuts.  I bet a handful of us forum pundits could sit down with both offers, and hammer out a compromise for each that would be much closer to agreeable, and an easy negotiation.  Each is going to have to give a lot from their initial position, where and how muc is the key.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2022, 03:47:36 PM »

Leverage.  Exactly my point.

The CFLPA had members give them authorization to strike.  They did that this week.  They could have done that Jan 1.  So that the CFL knew that training camps would not open without a CBA in place.  All the things the CFLPA is doing now to apply leverage could have been done months ago. 

Making the CBA expire after rookie camps start is silly.  CBA should expire in February, giving them 2 months post GC to get it done, and before FA and draft, where CBA changes might make large differences in contracts offered and players chased. 

Yup, these offers, from both sides, are nuts.  I bet a handful of us forum pundits could sit down with both offers, and hammer out a compromise for each that would be much closer to agreeable, and an easy negotiation.  Each is going to have to give a lot from their initial position, where and how muc is the key.

Aardvark, league owners are never going to negotiate in February. Ever. It makes no sense for virtually any realistic perspective.

To add to the mix, here's a letter the Bombers just emailed to players:

Quote
We are looking forward to your arrival shortly at Rookie or Training Camp. Despite rumours that you might have heard, we want to assure you that, as we advised your union on May 4, 2022, we are committed to house and feed you at our expense even if the union decides to take lawful strike action. Therefore, you will not be stranded at training camp.

As you know, the CFL and CFLPA are engaged in Collective Bargaining negotiations. The current Collective Agreement is due to expire at midnight on May 14th but not all teams will be in a lawful strike position at that time according to provincial labour laws.

Our first priority is to negotiate a new Collective Agreement with the CFLPA by the expiry date and we are hopeful that a new Collective Agreement can be in place so we can play football this season without a labour disruption.

The purpose of this letter is to clearly confirm that in the event of a lawful strike, we will continue to house and feed you at our expense until the conclusion of the strike or the end of training camp, whichever occurs first.

We look forward to your arrival at Rookie Camp or Training Camp but please let us know if you have any questions.

https://3downnation.com/2022/05/09/cfl-teams-commit-to-house-feed-players-until-conclusion-of-strike-or-end-of-training-camp/
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2022, 05:19:08 PM »

It would be suicide to lose the pre season 2 years in a row. OTOH, they could delay a few weeks and have play offs later as in 2022. Not what I want to see but could be an end result.

Ya, Ambrosie & league moaning on how bad the onfield product was in 2021, admitted some of it was due to no preseason/TC... then turns around and is willing to risk losing 2022 preseason games?
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theaardvark
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« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2022, 05:34:03 PM »

Aardvark, league owners are never going to negotiate in February. Ever. It makes no sense for virtually any realistic perspective.

To add to the mix, here's a letter the Bombers just emailed to players:

https://3downnation.com/2022/05/09/cfl-teams-commit-to-house-feed-players-until-conclusion-of-strike-or-end-of-training-camp/

Never is a long time... and I think all parties involved want stability, and if negotiating in Feb aides that, there is a reason to discuss it.

The CFLPA is losing a lot of their bargaining points with this statement from the Bombers, and I would guess other teams have done so or will follow.  No reason for players under contract to the Bomber to not report... guaranteed food and housing... I do note that they do not guarantee a return flight at any specified time... so we will feed an house you, but if you want to go home, that's on your dime...  makes sense...

I can see this CBA term to be a lot shorter than 10 years, probably sync'd with the TSN deal, giving both side the opportunity to adjust based on the reality of that contract, or whatever replaces that.
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