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Author Topic: CONGRATS GUYS!! The best team did win. But we gave you a good go! CATFAN  (Read 4165 times)
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2021, 04:53:09 PM »

O'Shea keeps this team on an even keel, regardless.  Hamilton deflated after missing the TD on that last possession, MOS would never have allowed that to happen.

Steinhauer has been a good HC, but O'Shea is better at that.  Maybe the change back to DC will do him good...

What would Mike O'Shea have done to ensure that?
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2021, 04:58:21 AM »

What would Mike O'Shea have done to ensure that?

Ensure he has developed the correct leaders on the team and hired the right coaching staff?  At that moment that Banks was sulking, there should have been whoever was the HAM O team leader(s) going from guy to guy saying they got this, just repeat that end-of-regulation monster drive but punch it in this time!  Usual rah rah pep stuff.

I bet you a zillion dollars our leaders were going to the guys on the sidelines saying keep going, we aren't going to let ourselves lose, etc, when we were down 12.

MOS chooses/develops the coaches and they and him encourage the team leaders to lead.  And lead the same way MOS shows by example.  Even keel.

(And if the leaders aren't getting the job done, the coach needs to start going to the key players to fire them back up.  Whatever it takes!)
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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2021, 03:46:25 AM »

Ensure he has developed the correct leaders on the team and hired the right coaching staff?  At that moment that Banks was sulking, there should have been whoever was the HAM O team leader(s) going from guy to guy saying they got this, just repeat that end-of-regulation monster drive but punch it in this time!  Usual rah rah pep stuff.

I bet you a zillion dollars our leaders were going to the guys on the sidelines saying keep going, we aren't going to let ourselves lose, etc, when we were down 12.

MOS chooses/develops the coaches and they and him encourage the team leaders to lead.  And lead the same way MOS shows by example.  Even keel.

(And if the leaders aren't getting the job done, the coach needs to start going to the key players to fire them back up.  Whatever it takes!)


About the Banks sulking (which I'll take your word for it... haven't watched the game yet and wouldn't be the first time), and downtrodden Hamilton team in OT...I mentioned this in another post, and I'm not sure if anyone knows or remembers this, seeing as it's a Bomber forum and more attention is obviously given to the Bombers.

There were 2 games in mid-October against Toronto and Montreal, both home games for Hamlton. Hamilton had sizeable leads in both games in the 4th quarter, and lost both games. I'm wondering if being in that same position in the Grey Cup (sizeable lead and opponent comeback) put them at a psychological disadvantage. Those two tough losses had to be playing on their minds.

That's why I'm kind of ok with dismantling this team and rebuilding. They're damaged goods. Not individually necessarily, but as a group. Keep one of those QBs and their best OL (because they're hard to come by) but retool everything else.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2021, 04:02:25 AM »

About the Banks sulking (which I'll take your word for it... haven't watched the game yet and wouldn't be the first time), and downtrodden Hamilton team in OT

Ya, they showed Banks for quite a long time, I think it was right after WPG scored the OT TD (but I'm not positive).  You can't miss it.  The cameraman/producers knew they had a bit of a story there with that shot/look...  And hey, I've watched the 2011 GC a few times, so it is possible to get over it and enjoy the game.  Grin  Though I won't discuss how long it took me...  Wink Wink Wink

There were 2 games in mid-October against Toronto and Montreal, both home games for Hamlton. Hamilton had sizeable leads in both games in the 4th quarter, and lost both games. I'm wondering if being in that same position in the Grey Cup (sizeable lead and opponent comeback) put them at a psychological disadvantage. Those two tough losses had to be playing on their minds.

That's why I'm kind of ok with dismantling this team and rebuilding. They're damaged goods. Not individually necessarily, but as a group. Keep one of those QBs and their best OL (because they're hard to come by) but retool everything else.

You know what, that's a very good point.  I was almost wondering that from 2019.  But they did manage to pull themselves up enough to get oh so close to beating a superior team for the GC.  So it's a good thing they didn't dismantle the team after 2019.

But can they possibly have the mental strength to keep the core guys for one more try in 2022?  Can Simoni, Banks, Laurent, VanZeyl, Acklin, Masoli, Evans, et al ever have a hope of winning it all with all the accumulated mental baggage?  Has any team in the CFL (heck or or the NFL) made it to the big game 3 years in a row and lost the 1st 2 then won the 3rd??

If not, maybe time to shed Banks, VanZeyl, Acklin, Evans.  On the flipside, I think Simoni has the temperment to still get it done.  Maybe Masoli, too.

But with a team blowup and new HC, 3peating to the GC might be too much.  Especially with hungry TOR and MTL arising.
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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2021, 04:33:37 AM »

Ya, they showed Banks for quite a long time, I think it was right after WPG scored the OT TD (but I'm not positive).  You can't miss it.  The cameraman/producers knew they had a bit of a story there with that shot/look...  And hey, I've watched the 2011 GC a few times, so it is possible to get over it and enjoy the game.  Grin  Though I won't discuss how long it took me...  Wink Wink Wink

You know what, that's a very good point.  I was almost wondering that from 2019.  But they did manage to pull themselves up enough to get oh so close to beating a superior team for the GC.  So it's a good thing they didn't dismantle the team after 2019.

But can they possibly have the mental strength to keep the core guys for one more try in 2022?  Can Simoni, Banks, Laurent, VanZeyl, Acklin, Masoli, Evans, et al ever have a hope of winning it all with all the accumulated mental baggage?  Has any team in the CFL (heck or or the NFL) made it to the big game 3 years in a row and lost the 1st 2 then won the 3rd??

If not, maybe time to shed Banks, VanZeyl, Acklin, Evans.  On the flipside, I think Simoni has the temperment to still get it done.  Maybe Masoli, too.

But with a team blowup and new HC, 3peating to the GC might be too much.  Especially with hungry TOR and MTL arising.


If I'm not mistaken, I think Calgary lost in '16 and '17 and won in '18. And for an older example, I know for a fact that Hamilton lost in '84 and '85 and won in '86.

I agree with keeping Simoni (he feels like a Ticat lifer and loves it here). Keep Revenberg. And I like Don Jackson.  But I agree get rid of Banks (he may be retiring anyway), Acklin, VZ. And for the love of all that is good and mighty... sign a kicker! (although our FG kicker was not a problem during the Grey Cup surprisingly).
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dd
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« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2021, 03:55:53 PM »

Banks is a prima dona, it?s all about him. He is a player of weak character and a poor leader.

Teams don?t need prima donas and pouters, they need leaders who fight when the going gets tough. Banks reminds me of the kid who would pout and cry in the corner when someone took his toy vs go get your toy back. He would NEVER be on a MOS team and there is a reason the bombers were able to overcome 6 turnovers vs riders and come from behind in the GC....they are the kids who went and got their toy back while others were in the corner crying!!!

Boo hoo Banks, boo hoo, good luck in free agency, I wouldn?t sign him if he was the only player available. Teams don?t need self centred quitters
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ichabod_crane
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2021, 06:55:26 PM »

If I'm not mistaken, I think Calgary lost in '16 and '17 and won in '18. And for an older example, I know for a fact that Hamilton lost in '84 and '85 and won in '86.

I agree with keeping Simoni (he feels like a Ticat lifer and loves it here). Keep Revenberg. And I like Don Jackson.  But I agree get rid of Banks (he may be retiring anyway), Acklin, VZ. And for the love of all that is good and mighty... sign a kicker! (although our FG kicker was not a problem during the Grey Cup surprisingly).

You are not mistaken. Calgary went to the GC 3 three years in a row very recently and won the third one finally.

In an opposite way, Montreal went 3 years in a row from 1977-1979. Won the first one, lost the next two. All games were vs Edmonton.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2021, 07:42:34 PM »

Banks is a prima dona, it?s all about him. He is a player of weak character and a poor leader.

Teams don?t need prima donas and pouters, they need leaders who fight when the going gets tough. Banks reminds me of the kid who would pout and cry in the corner when someone took his toy vs go get your toy back. He would NEVER be on a MOS team and there is a reason the bombers were able to overcome 6 turnovers vs riders and come from behind in the GC....they are the kids who went and got their toy back while others were in the corner crying!!!

Boo hoo Banks, boo hoo, good luck in free agency, I wouldn?t sign him if he was the only player available. Teams don?t need self centred quitters

To put Brandon Banks into context, he is about 5'-6" 140 lbs. soaking wet, it's amazing he had a football career at all, the guy is tiny.
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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2021, 07:59:46 PM »

Banks is a prima dona, it?s all about him. He is a player of weak character and a poor leader.

Teams don?t need prima donas and pouters, they need leaders who fight when the going gets tough. Banks reminds me of the kid who would pout and cry in the corner when someone took his toy vs go get your toy back. He would NEVER be on a MOS team and there is a reason the bombers were able to overcome 6 turnovers vs riders and come from behind in the GC....they are the kids who went and got their toy back while others were in the corner crying!!!

Boo hoo Banks, boo hoo, good luck in free agency, I wouldn?t sign him if he was the only player available. Teams don?t need self centred quitters

Banks is great, although I can see how fans of other teams may not like him (much like Simoni). He's provided some great moments over the years. The one that always comes to mind for me is the '14 East Final where he returned two punts for touchdowns. His one weakness of course is that he can let his emotions get the better of him. Which has led to the one black mark on his career: tears on the sideline after his punt return TD was called back in the '14 Grey Cup; relatively minor compared to drug use, getting caught cheating or committing a crime. And let's face it, the Cats weren't coming back in that game whether Banks played the last few minutes or not. Did it rub me the wrong way? Yes. Will I allow it to cloud my fandom of him? Absolutely not

But like I said, I can understand how fans from other teams may not like him.
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dd
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« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2021, 10:18:46 PM »

Sorry, I have never and will never cheer or support quitters. Whether or not the cats could have won the game is irrelevant, the fact that one of your key players has visibly quit on the sideline says it all. Him crying on the punt return called back was beyond pathetic.  Couldn?t care about anything else, what he s done, his size, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Doesn?t matter. Quitter, you?re dead to me. When the going gets tough, you?re stars have to shine, not Pout or melt down. Separates the winners from the losers, and banks is a loser. 

There?s legitimacy to the old saying Quitters never win, and winners never quit.
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the paw
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« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2021, 10:33:42 PM »


That's why I'm kind of ok with dismantling this team and rebuilding. They're damaged goods. Not individually necessarily, but as a group. Keep one of those QBs and their best OL (because they're hard to come by) but retool everything else.

I think they have to retool, but it isn?t a gut job.   I would sign Evans as QB, keep Don Jackson as RB.  I think Dunbar, White, Acklin and a recovered Addison would be good receivers.  I think I would try to upgrade from Ungerer, maybe try to see if I could land Jevon Cottoy or Shaq Johnson.

They need to move on from Van Zeyl at RT, and add a good interior OL.  Revenberg and Ciraco are good though.

Their linebackers are great.  I like the d-line, but you have to wonder if Big Teddy is going to in the tub more and more.  He is also expensive.  If they get Frankie back at CB, their back end is solid.  They had injuries that depleted the secondary during the playoffs.  I would look to get stronger at kicker.
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dd
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« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2021, 10:51:37 PM »

Evans will have options for sure this off season. If I m Ottawa, I?m going hard after Evans and ditto for Jackson and they?d have 2 studs to form their offense around, presently they have nothing. If I was BC I d be dumping Reilly ASAP-he ain?t worth half of hat he?s making and hasn?t smiled since he went to BC, and taking a run at Evans as well.
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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2021, 11:02:19 PM »

Sorry, I have never and will never cheer or support quitters. Whether or not the cats could have won the game is irrelevant, the fact that one of your key players has visibly quit on the sideline says it all. Him crying on the punt return called back was beyond pathetic.  Couldn?t care about anything else, what he s done, his size, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Doesn?t matter. Quitter, you?re dead to me. When the going gets tough, you?re stars have to shine, not Pout or melt down. Separates the winners from the losers, and banks is a loser. 

There?s legitimacy to the old saying Quitters never win, and winners never quit.

Fair enough. Like I said, I get it.

I think they have to retool, but it isn?t a gut job.   I would sign Evans as QB, keep Don Jackson as RB.  I think Dunbar, White, Acklin and a recovered Addison would be good receivers.  I think I would try to upgrade from Ungerer, maybe try to see if I could land Jevon Cottoy or Shaq Johnson.

They need to move on from Van Zeyl at RT, and add a good interior OL.  Revenberg and Ciraco are good though.

Their linebackers are great.  I like the d-line, but you have to wonder if Big Teddy is going to in the tub more and more.  He is also expensive.  If they get Frankie back at CB, their back end is solid.  They had injuries that depleted the secondary during the playoffs.  I would look to get stronger at kicker.

Agree with most of what you said. I think White (I assume you mean Tim, not Papi) will go. He is a good receiver, but I think the single point fiasco may end his time here. Not that I agree with it, though. He's a good receiver and would be an upgrade on many teams. Also worried about lack of a deep threat especially if Addison is too injury prone. I love the defense when everyone's healthy. What gets lost in the GC game is how well Autry stepped in for Laurent. He wasn't noticeable, but didn't make any glaring errors as the whole d-line played well.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2021, 12:43:57 AM »

Agree with most of what you said. I think White (I assume you mean Tim, not Papi) will go. He is a good receiver, but I think the single point fiasco may end his time here. Not that I agree with it, though. He's a good receiver and would be an upgrade on many teams. Also worried about lack of a deep threat especially if Addison is too injury prone. I love the defense when everyone's healthy. What gets lost in the GC game is how well Autry stepped in for Laurent. He wasn't noticeable, but didn't make any glaring errors as the whole d-line played well.

Autry had a great game.  They didn't miss a beat without Laurent.  However, it did cost them on the ratio, and you can argue your DBs allowed us to win the game in the 4th & OT.  If VZ goes, you're already going to be in ratio hell.  Lose VZ and Laurent, and you'll have to rejig everything on both sides.

Keep T.White, he's like Lawler was at that stage: a potential legit star on the cheap.

Addison in the GC might have been more than enough to win.  Major break for WPG having him out.

Jackson: I don't think much of him, unlike everyone else.  He's kind of like JWJ, but worse.  Don is useless between the tackles.  At least JWJ can make those A/B gap runs sometimes, being slippery.  Don is just speed and vision in the open field.  You can gameplan around that.

Whatever happened to STE??  I would develop that guy more.  He was astounding as a rookie, then died off after injury.  If you can get STE back up to snuff then there's your ratio-saver right there.  I would make this priority #1.  And if you can't, then steal BO20 away from WPG.

It's funny, because of our 2 GC's and big new rivalry, I know more about HAM than any other team besides WPG now.  Grin Grin  Very few teams I know all the players and their strengths/weaknesses.  Most teams it's just about knowing the half or so who are playmakers.  (Except for OTT, where there are none!)  Wink Wink Wink
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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2021, 02:30:59 AM »

Autry had a great game.  They didn't miss a beat without Laurent.  However, it did cost them on the ratio, and you can argue your DBs allowed us to win the game in the 4th & OT.  If VZ goes, you're already going to be in ratio hell.  Lose VZ and Laurent, and you'll have to rejig everything on both sides.

Keep T.White, he's like Lawler was at that stage: a potential legit star on the cheap.

Addison in the GC might have been more than enough to win.  Major break for WPG having him out.

Jackson: I don't think much of him, unlike everyone else.  He's kind of like JWJ, but worse.  Don is useless between the tackles.  At least JWJ can make those A/B gap runs sometimes, being slippery.  Don is just speed and vision in the open field.  You can gameplan around that.

Whatever happened to STE??  I would develop that guy more.  He was astounding as a rookie, then died off after injury.  If you can get STE back up to snuff then there's your ratio-saver right there.  I would make this priority #1.  And if you can't, then steal BO20 away from WPG.

It's funny, because of our 2 GC's and big new rivalry, I know more about HAM than any other team besides WPG now.  Grin Grin  Very few teams I know all the players and their strengths/weaknesses.  Most teams it's just about knowing the half or so who are playmakers.  (Except for OTT, where there are none!)  Wink Wink Wink


I do agree with your assessment of White. I just don't think he'll be here next year.

And I also agree with what you said about STE and also think the rarely-used by highly effective Maleek Irons could be a good ratio-busting RB as well.

And I'm not sure you can call HAM-WPG a rivalry when one side is so dominant  Grin. I appreciate the sentiment, though!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 02:34:18 AM by oskee woot woot » Logged
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