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Author Topic: Official Game Day Thread - 108th Grey Cup Game December 12, 2021  (Read 19414 times)
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #375 on: December 14, 2021, 01:28:49 PM »

As a Ticat fan, this actually bothered me more then the single point. They should have tried to win or lose the game in those last seconds. What's the difference between that and going to overtime? Overtime has too many variables over an extended period of time. The Cats seemed deflated in overtime from not winning it then and there and the Bombers had more energy.  They should have left it to just that one play. Win it or lose it.

That's the benefit of hindsight. Hamilton could have just as easily won in OT and then it would have been a good call to go for the field goal.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #376 on: December 14, 2021, 01:41:11 PM »

That's the benefit of hindsight. Hamilton could have just as easily won in OT and then it would have been a good call to go for the field goal.

I'm still surprised they didn't opt to start OT on offense.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #377 on: December 14, 2021, 02:08:46 PM »

I'm still surprised they didn't opt to start OT on offense.

Teams seldom make that choice. They want to know what they have to achieve in their matching series. If the opponent only scores a FG and they are 3 and 4 then they kick a matching FG. In the case of the Grey Cup, they knew they had to score a TD and 2 pointer to continue, so it was 3 down football.

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bomb squad
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« Reply #378 on: December 14, 2021, 05:01:46 PM »

He didn't say it exactly as paraphrased, but it was close.  In the long sit-down presser post-game, MOS did say that having won the toss there was no way he wasn't taking the wind in the 4th.  He basically said it was of great importance.

I questioned his choice, as that gives HAM the extra chance to get momentum in the 1st and 3rd and be up by too much to overcome.  But MOS, once again, was right.


In the post game context, I agree it was close. However, those comments came soon after the game while his sweatshirt was still drenched in gatorade. I would suggest he may say something a little bit different with regards to the coin toss after he sobered up from the win. If we'd lost he wouldn't have said anything about it. Same if we'd lost the coin toss, win or lose the game.

I guess my issue is there is this narrative out there now that the coin toss was this big determining factor in outcome of the game (check out the editorials in today's Sun). It wasn't and it's not. Except, if you have information the wind will change sometime during game. I just think some people are overstating the impact of winning the coin toss. I will concede there is a psychological advantage to having the wind in the final quarter, but not physical. 

The only professional league where winning a coin toss can virtually determine the outcome of a game is...... Yup, the mighty, flawless NFL.
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Horseman
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« Reply #379 on: December 14, 2021, 06:41:01 PM »

In the post game context, I agree it was close. However, those comments came soon after the game while his sweatshirt was still drenched in gatorade. I would suggest he may say something a little bit different with regards to the coin toss after he sobered up from the win. If we'd lost he wouldn't have said anything about it. Same if we'd lost the coin toss, win or lose the game.

I guess my issue is there is this narrative out there now that the coin toss was this big determining factor in outcome of the game (check out the editorials in today's Sun). It wasn't and it's not. Except, if you have information the wind will change sometime during game. I just think some people are overstating the impact of winning the coin toss. I will concede there is a psychological advantage to having the wind in the final quarter, but not physical. 

The only professional league where winning a coin toss can virtually determine the outcome of a game is...... Yup, the mighty, flawless NFL.

The wind is much more than a psychological advantage, having played in a number of games where there was a strong wind, you indeed take the wind in the 4th quarter without question if you have the choice. Trying to throw into the wind is the same as the old saying goes, ******* into the wind, it gets hung up and blown backwards.
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GCn19
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« Reply #380 on: December 14, 2021, 06:45:45 PM »

In the post game context, I agree it was close. However, those comments came soon after the game while his sweatshirt was still drenched in gatorade. I would suggest he may say something a little bit different with regards to the coin toss after he sobered up from the win. If we'd lost he wouldn't have said anything about it. Same if we'd lost the coin toss, win or lose the game.

I guess my issue is there is this narrative out there now that the coin toss was this big determining factor in outcome of the game (check out the editorials in today's Sun). It wasn't and it's not. Except, if you have information the wind will change sometime during game. I just think some people are overstating the impact of winning the coin toss. I will concede there is a psychological advantage to having the wind in the final quarter, but not physical. 

The only professional league where winning a coin toss can virtually determine the outcome of a game is...... Yup, the mighty, flawless NFL.

Very seldom do you get a 40mph cold wind in pro sports but when you do it's a factor. However, if we had lost the coin toss it would have been paramount that we construct a lead that is insurmountable in the 2nd and 3rd Qs.
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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #381 on: December 14, 2021, 08:08:13 PM »

That's the benefit of hindsight. Hamilton could have just as easily won in OT and then it would have been a good call to go for the field goal.

It's not really a hindsight thing for me, though. I remember thinking at the time they should just go for it. I didn't like our chances in OT. I knew Winnipeg would have more poise and momentum from the deep red zone stop.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #382 on: December 14, 2021, 08:31:35 PM »

It's not really a hindsight thing for me, though. I remember thinking at the time they should just go for it. I didn't like our chances in OT. I knew Winnipeg would have more poise and momentum from the deep red zone stop.

Sean Thomas Erlington seems to be a good runner near the goal line, I see he had no stats, was he even dressed?
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #383 on: December 14, 2021, 08:41:03 PM »

It's not really a hindsight thing for me, though. I remember thinking at the time they should just go for it. I didn't like our chances in OT. I knew Winnipeg would have more poise and momentum from the deep red zone stop.

Yeah. Fair enough. Could have made that call for sure. However, if you try it and are stopped then you have a ton of people saying why didn't you go to overtime and use the crowd to your advantage, who knows what happens, etc. etc.
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bomb squad
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« Reply #384 on: December 14, 2021, 08:47:03 PM »

The wind is much more than a psychological advantage, having played in a number of games where there was a strong wind, you indeed take the wind in the 4th quarter without question if you have the choice. Trying to throw into the wind is the same as the old saying goes, ******* into the wind, it gets hung up and blown backwards.

Oh, it's harder to throw against the wind? Who'd of thunk it? I bet the kicking is harder too, huh?  Thanks for the info. Now, how is having the wind in the 4th quarter more than a psychological advantage?
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ichabod_crane
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« Reply #385 on: December 14, 2021, 08:57:47 PM »

Well, maybe not as critical when you have our OL and a QB who smartly doesn't run at all.  Think of our QB as Ricky Ray.

The bigger question is: does HAM let Masoli walk or Evans walk?  I thought it was going to be Masoli, but when push came to shove, Masoli got the job done better than anyone would have dreamed while Evans sat mildly injured on the sidelines.  I'm a Masoli fan, I'd keep Masoli.  Evans is still just a kid: good future, but not capable of winning at GC yet.

The league is hurting for good QBs.  I can't see any situation HAM retains both QBs next year.


I was actually expecting Collaros to scramble out a bit more the longer the Bombers stayed behind. Not sure if their offence really has any QB draws in the playbook for him or he would just adlib if there was a huge opening in front of him. No use holding back in the penultimate game of the year if that is what was going to be required.

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oskee woot woot
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« Reply #386 on: December 14, 2021, 09:11:36 PM »

Yeah. Fair enough. Could have made that call for sure. However, if you try it and are stopped then you have a ton of people saying why didn't you go to overtime and use the crowd to your advantage, who knows what happens, etc. etc.

For sure he would be second guessed. But it would be the right call. You're most likely needing a TD to win in OT anyway (not to mention a 2pt convert). Why not just get that TD in regulation when you're a few yards from the goal line?
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BigBlueCrew
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« Reply #387 on: December 14, 2021, 09:23:10 PM »

Overlooked in all this discussion was MOS decision to take the safety and kick the ball off vs punt from the end zone into the wind. Assuming cats make th field goal, that?s giving up an extra point, which would have meant we lost.

Game was a hard fought battle with many ups and downs, glad we won it

Hamilton actually did get a field goal on the drive right after the safety. So really, had we just punted we would have saved 2 points.
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ichabod_crane
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« Reply #388 on: December 14, 2021, 09:59:21 PM »

Hamilton actually did get a field goal on the drive right after the safety. So really, had we just punted we would have saved 2 points.

POTENTIALLY. They could have been deep on the Bombers side of the field if they punted out of the end zone. May have been a TD instead of FG. We will never know though. I agreed with the call at the time. Field position imperative with O'Shea always. The FG they later got was in the early 4th and into the wind.

Much more questionable are those two rouges Cats gave up on kickoffs. First one he misjudged and went off his finger tips for a single. So maybe more fluke than anything, although if he seen it was going to roar through should have never made a play on the ball and Bombers get ZERO points. Second one he had a ton of room to run from my view of the live play and later replay. Saved a few extra seconds, but may have even gotten past the 35 to start. Again we will never know, but even most Cats fans from the tv shots were a bit stunned at that call. Getting down to the Bombers 30 yard line would have won them the game potentially with a FG if just down by 2 even into the wind.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #389 on: December 14, 2021, 10:40:07 PM »

For sure he would be second guessed. But it would be the right call. You're most likely needing a TD to win in OT anyway (not to mention a 2pt convert). Why not just get that TD in regulation when you're a few yards from the goal line?

Fair enough. I see the logic and fortune usually favors the bold!
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